Florida teen goes to Iraq for school project
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  Florida teen goes to Iraq for school project
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Author Topic: Florida teen goes to Iraq for school project  (Read 7057 times)
MarkDel
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« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2005, 09:24:30 PM »

I've found nothing about it on Fox.  Damn that liberal media for ignoring what's important.

It's been on Fox News, I saw it myself. But they too have been underplaying the story...mainly because their "straight news people" are not biased towards the right wing the way the "opinion shows" are like O'Reilly, Hannity, etc....
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Gabu
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« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2005, 09:25:26 PM »

MarkDel and dazzleman seem to be ignoring the actual story at least as much as the mainstream media in lieu of ranting on and on about the mainstream media...

I'm really wondering what this will accomplish.  Insulting people is not going to allow them to see their errors.
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Beet
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« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2005, 09:27:22 PM »
« Edited: December 30, 2005, 09:39:09 PM by thefactor »

Alcon,

What I said to Joe may seem harsh, but if a person cannot, or will not, recognize that which is almost ludicrously obvious, they are either lacking in intelligence, or devoid of objectivty...there's no getting around it. It's like the person who tells you 2+2=5...they are either stupid or obstinate.

We are all most sensitive to aspects of the media that irritate us the most. I know this is true from personal experience.

MarkDel, originally a stupid reply. Thinking a bit more about my word choice, it was biased. I think I used "spokesperson" in the negative role because generally one's spokesperson role is more important when one is in opposition than when one is giving gratitude. For example it's more important to say "you're hurting me" than to say "thank you." They are both important, but one's personal voice is more important in the former role.

Which, leads back to the original point of my post, which was kind of missed.
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MarkDel
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« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2005, 09:28:59 PM »

MarkDel and dazzleman seem to be ignoring the actual story at least as much as the mainstream media in lieu of ranting on and on about the mainstream media...

I'm really wondering what this will accomplish.  Insulting people is not going to allow them to see their errors.

Gabu,

Now you see, THAT'S WHY I stopped posting here. Expressing a rational view and telling someone else you think they're wrong, and questioning their objectivity, is considered INSULTING.

Left wingers on this forum do FAR worse over and over and over again and guys like you don't say a god damn word. That's the way it works here, and that's why I left....and should have stayed gone.
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dazzleman
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« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2005, 09:31:06 PM »

MarkDel and dazzleman seem to be ignoring the actual story at least as much as the mainstream media in lieu of ranting on and on about the mainstream media...

I'm really wondering what this will accomplish.  Insulting people is not going to allow them to see their errors.

Telling the truth is not insulting people.  If you think it is, then that doesn't say much for the person who is supposedly being insulted.
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Joe Republic
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« Reply #30 on: December 30, 2005, 09:31:55 PM »

Now you see, THAT'S WHY I stopped posting here. Expressing a rational view and telling someone else you think they're wrong, and questioning their objectivity, is considered INSULTING.

You said I was 'either stupid or obstinate'.
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MarkDel
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« Reply #31 on: December 30, 2005, 09:35:22 PM »

Now you see, THAT'S WHY I stopped posting here. Expressing a rational view and telling someone else you think they're wrong, and questioning their objectivity, is considered INSULTING.

You said I was 'either stupid or obstinate'.

No Joe, that was the analogy I was trying to make which obviously eluded both you and Gabu. Go back and reread what I said to you in the post BEFORE that, the one about looking in the mirror.
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MarkDel
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« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2005, 09:38:43 PM »

MarkDel and dazzleman seem to be ignoring the actual story at least as much as the mainstream media in lieu of ranting on and on about the mainstream media...

I'm really wondering what this will accomplish.  Insulting people is not going to allow them to see their errors.

Telling the truth is not insulting people.  If you think it is, then that doesn't say much for the person who is supposedly being insulted.

Dazzleman,

No, that's not the problem here. The problem is that Gabu and others here want the rules to work one way for leftists and one way for rightists, and that's something that was NOT the case at this site when I first joined a couple years ago...and that swing to the left is a big part of why I should just avoid this place the way I did for about a 6-month period earlier this year.
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Joe Republic
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« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2005, 09:44:00 PM »

Roll Eyes  If you're too lazy to fight the supposed liberal bias of this forum, then why bother at all?
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Alcon
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« Reply #34 on: December 30, 2005, 09:44:20 PM »

I can argue with people I strongly agree with without suggesting that their views make them "stupid or obstinate."  Most people here do.  I think they would appreciate it if the hyperbole was dropped.
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MarkDel
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« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2005, 09:51:43 PM »

I can argue with people I strongly agree with without suggesting that their views make them "stupid or obstinate."  Most people here do.  I think they would appreciate it if the hyperbole was dropped.

Alcon,

Et tu? It appears that you also have a reading comprehension issue. That was an ANALOGY...I assumed that you, Joe and Gabu understood the concept.

But, hyperbole dropped Alcon. Since you and/or Gabu are moderators, go ahead and ban me if you think I'm "lowering the standards" of this forum.

If only people like you and Gabu would take such a strong position against the trolls and other non-productive members of the forum.

This is a waste of my time...
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Joe Republic
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« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2005, 09:54:39 PM »

If you had a clue, you'd know that nobody is ever banned around here for expressing their political opinions.
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Alcon
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« Reply #37 on: December 30, 2005, 09:56:51 PM »

I can argue with people I strongly agree with without suggesting that their views make them "stupid or obstinate."  Most people here do.  I think they would appreciate it if the hyperbole was dropped.

Alcon,

Et tu? It appears that you also have a reading comprehension issue. That was an ANALOGY...I assumed that you, Joe and Gabu understood the concept.

But, hyperbole dropped Alcon. Since you and/or Gabu are moderators, go ahead and ban me if you think I'm "lowering the standards" of this forum.

If only people like you and Gabu would take such a strong position against the trolls and other non-productive members of the forum.

This is a waste of my time...

Moderators cannot ban on this forum, and I would certainly have no interest in banning you.  You are one of my favourite posters.  It's not really a big deal, and although I don't see what was analogous about your "stupid or obstinate" statement, I don't think it's that big of a deal.

But this has already gone overboard.
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Beet
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« Reply #38 on: December 30, 2005, 09:59:23 PM »

Come on people. MarkDel feels very passionate, and this sometimes gets the better of him. MarkDel, unless Im missing something personal, you need to seriously lighten up just a little bit.

Joe, didn't insult you, he merely insulted an imaginary person who holds views that he strongly disagrees with. That said, it was still wrong, because if someone did hold those views, it does not necessarily make them stupid or obstinate, and they should be corrected with arguments rather than insults. Look we've completely lost the discussion because of them.

Anyway, it's a great excuse for me to stop wasting whats left of my new year's eve eve on politics.
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dazzleman
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« Reply #39 on: December 30, 2005, 10:00:18 PM »

Mark, I think a lot of people in the US understand your point about the liberal media.  Why do you think they're deserting stations like CNN, CBS and the like in droves?

Keep driving the point home, man.  I think you're completely correct about the motives of the media in downplaying this story.
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MarkDel
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« Reply #40 on: December 30, 2005, 10:03:46 PM »

Come on people. MarkDel feels very passionate, and this sometimes gets the better of him. MarkDel, unless Im missing something personal, you need to seriously lighten up just a little bit.

Joe, didn't insult you, he merely insulted an imaginary person who holds views that he strongly disagrees with. That said, it was still wrong, because if someone did hold those views, it does not necessarily make them stupid or obstinate, and they should be corrected with arguments rather than insults. Look we've completely lost the discussion because of them.

Anyway, it's a great excuse for me to stop wasting whats left of my new year's eve eve on politics.

Factor,

Just so you understand, my problem, real problem in this thread, is not with Joe, or you, or anyone else who holds your opinions. I may disagree with you guys...may even think your position is silly, but that doesn't get me angry. What gets me angry is Gabu and Alcon coming in "all self righteous" on me when they do NOT do the same thing to left wingers and/or trolls who behave in the same fashion. Now THAT is what has me pissed off for real.
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Alcon
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« Reply #41 on: December 30, 2005, 10:10:33 PM »

By the way, Google News currently ranks this third under the World subheading with 1,161 related articles.  The number of related articles ranks it as the most widely covered news story of the day.

So it is being covered very widely.
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Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon
htmldon
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« Reply #42 on: December 30, 2005, 10:12:20 PM »

*roots for MarkDel*  Go Mark!!!
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they don't love you like i love you
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« Reply #43 on: December 30, 2005, 10:13:48 PM »

Countless studies have done on media bias. Not a single one has found any evidence of bias in the media whatsoever, liberal or conservative.

Plus if the media was so liberal, you'd expect DU to be big fans of it. Go look to see what the have to say about CNN.
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Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon
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« Reply #44 on: December 30, 2005, 10:15:34 PM »

Countless studies have done on media bias. Not a single one has found any evidence of bias in the media whatsoever, liberal or conservative.

Plus if the media was so liberal, you'd expect DU to be big fans of it. Go look to see what the have to say about CNN.

UCLA study - "Media Bias is Real"
http://www.newsroom.ucla.edu/page.asp?RelNum=6664
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phk
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« Reply #45 on: December 30, 2005, 10:17:50 PM »

This is really interesting to me... the question of media bias.

You are correct in saying that all media reflects bias and that it is unavoidable.

 This is because it is written by human subjects who can never entirely seperate their personal subjectivity and ideological motives from objective reality.

It is a dialectical and ideological process in actually "uncovering" the truth. Which makes the process rather tricky, given that everyone is always already ideologically interpellated and that all media caries with it propaganda. (Fox News, CNN; all attack-dogs of the current political parties)

So understanding truth is like detective work. Essentially, taking ideological raw material and refining it.

In terms of understanding media, it comes down to structural analysis. The key is understanding the way in which structures (the political and ideological superstructures and the economic infrastructure) act as forces upon each other in a "complex structured whole."

Thus if we are well informed by the standards presented to us by the average American (we read the New York Times and watch the evening news) we really aren't well informed in any structural sense, as the lack of objectivity or perspective doesn't allow for accurate analysis.

Here's what I do:

I read many papers and journal from various perspectives. I read what the Press agencies put out, namely Reuters; the Corporate Media (meaning media that is profit driven, based upon advertising and thus runs stories that are profitable based upon market analysis). These are NY Times, LA Times; usually gives a perspective of what people that classify themselves as well-informed are thinking.

The journals from both the left and right that offer a fairly solid analysis of events. On the left wing of the spectrum you have CounterPunch, SocialistWorker, New Left Review; on the right you have, The Economist.

You can't stop there either, you have to understand the perspective of the world and the global players, so check out international papers such as the BBC, Al-Jazeera, JapanToday are saying. All of these are burgoise papers so read the proletarian papers like The Militant (Trotsykist) and the RWOR (Maoist, and my personal favorite); these are important for perspective.

But when looking at any international issue check out hte proper national papers that deal with it, and the nations involved. I read such online papers as IRNA (Iran), Gooya (Iran); when I want analyze the leftist student protests in Tehran, which is the event that I have followed for the past few years more closely than other.

Of course in any dynamic system (a system with an excess of variables) no analysis is rock solid. But this is the best method I've come up with understanding events: study history and contemporary reporting, both from as wide a range of perspectives as possible, and then combine this with economic analysis.
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Alcon
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« Reply #46 on: December 30, 2005, 10:18:05 PM »

Countless studies have done on media bias. Not a single one has found any evidence of bias in the media whatsoever, liberal or conservative.

Plus if the media was so liberal, you'd expect DU to be big fans of it. Go look to see what the have to say about CNN.

UCLA study - "Media Bias is Real"
http://www.newsroom.ucla.edu/page.asp?RelNum=6664

That was a very interesting study, but I do feel that it reflected Reuters and the Associated Press too much.  If they were to look at the articles written by the outfits exclusively, I wonder what results they would have found?
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patrick1
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« Reply #47 on: December 30, 2005, 10:22:21 PM »

Good post phknrocket.
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dazzleman
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« Reply #48 on: December 30, 2005, 10:24:54 PM »

Countless studies have done on media bias. Not a single one has found any evidence of bias in the media whatsoever, liberal or conservative.

Plus if the media was so liberal, you'd expect DU to be big fans of it. Go look to see what the have to say about CNN.

UCLA study - "Media Bias is Real"
http://www.newsroom.ucla.edu/page.asp?RelNum=6664

Absolutely.  I find it uncanny how often I agree with Mark.  It would be hard for me to think of an issue he has brought up where I don't agree with him.
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Monty
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« Reply #49 on: December 31, 2005, 11:10:27 AM »

This incident involving the Florida teen has received VERY, VERY, VERY little media attention.

Can anyone here guess why?


Because I don't care to read about some kid's Christmas vacation.
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