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  United Kingdom General Elections: December 12th, 2019
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Author Topic: United Kingdom General Elections: December 12th, 2019  (Read 76364 times)
urutzizu
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« Reply #1025 on: November 28, 2019, 06:57:42 pm »

Tbh. even for those that watched the Debate, it seemed to me at times as if the Ice Sculptures were actually doing less bad then some of the Humans.
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CumbrianLeftie
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« Reply #1026 on: November 28, 2019, 07:18:43 pm »

So the Tories are threatening to use the tools of government to enact retribution against unsympathetic news outlets. Very cool stuff.

And yet the media has overall given Johnson much better coverage than Corbyn.

A large number of them are bootlickers, unfortunately.
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Lord Halifax
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« Reply #1027 on: November 29, 2019, 02:24:28 am »

"Boris Johnson has been accused of pushing racial stereotypes over a newly-unearthed column written during his time as editor of the Spectator in which he said young people had “an almost Nigerian interest in money”."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/28/johnson-accused-of-racial-stereotyping-with-view-on-nigerians

Might cost the Tories that all-important Nigerian vote.
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Justice Blair
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« Reply #1028 on: November 29, 2019, 03:22:46 am »

Yes; the baffling thing about the last two years has been the willingness of the Tory Party to rip up conventions that a Corbyn Government could exploit when nationalising Greggs (ignoring humble address motions, skipping liason committes, ignoring contempt motions, threatening media licenses, dissolving Parliament etc etc)


I mean, I’ve spent a lot of my life having to lick boots of one variety or another, so sycophancy has always become me.

Were I running the Tory campaign, I would have ignored it. In the grand scheme of things it’s bloody Channel 4, nobody watches it aside from Peep Show fans (not a particularly Tory friendly demographic I would’ve thought) waiting for an ageing Mitchell and Webb to roll in for series 168 of them pretending to still be 30 year olds. Making a fuss like this just creates another irritant for the press to rub into the Tory campaign.

Nonetheless, the fact is, the government, whether it be a Tory government or a Labour government, is entitled to set the parameters for Channel 4. There are plenty of other places for liberals and the left to go and get their kicks (the Guardian, the Independent, the New Statesman, that constellation of dubious “independent” media sites like Novara and many, many more). Were the Tories to clamp down on Channel 4’s ability to pose at ‘telling truth to power’ (retch), I find it highly unlikely that it would be the prelude to Gleichschaltung 2 Electric Boogaloo.

If Channel 4 were interested in running a serious debate on the environment, I doubt they would set it up as a debate between seven people with only an hour (about eight and a half minutes of speaking time per person!) for running time, which is what they did. Johnson was right to treat it with the contempt it deserved and was fairly generous in sending along Gove to participate at all.

None of these are TV channels, but you know this. Your post is much like watching Cleverly or Burgon going out to bat; pretty hilarious in showing just what defences have to be wheeled out when something relatively stupid has been done.

I'm not complaining though- the hits on Bojo for skipping are stronger than a 30 second clip of him getting attacked for fossil fuel donations or whatever low grade stuff would have got thrown at him. 
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CumbrianLeftie
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« Reply #1029 on: November 29, 2019, 07:06:51 am »

Johnson apparently not having an easy time of it on normally supportive LBC this morning.
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afleitch
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« Reply #1030 on: November 29, 2019, 09:24:40 am »

Incident at London Bridge.
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CumbrianLeftie
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« Reply #1031 on: November 29, 2019, 11:25:43 am »
« Edited: November 30, 2019, 07:32:50 pm by CumbrianLeftie »

Could have been worse, it appears.

EDIT: posted before it became clear there were two fatalities Sad
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Oryxslayer
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« Reply #1032 on: November 29, 2019, 01:46:56 pm »
« Edited: November 29, 2019, 01:58:25 pm by Oryxslayer »

BoJo's warning Trump not to make brash statements about the election when he comes to the Nato summit. BoJo, after all, doesn't want to be seen as Trump's mini-me: the minority of trump approvers in the UK are likely already voting Con/Brexit/DUP.

There's also a 7 way debate in Cardiff tonight, but BoJo, Corbyn, and Farage are sending replacements. I get the feeling that this debate may have a lot of security related questions after what happened today.
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Cinemark
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« Reply #1033 on: November 29, 2019, 03:07:18 pm »

This is probably more out of ignorance than anything else, but I was under the impression the Tories were pretty climate friendly when compared to other center right and right wing parties in the west?
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Silent Hunter
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« Reply #1034 on: November 29, 2019, 03:26:36 pm »

This is probably more out of ignorance than anything else, but I was under the impression the Tories were pretty climate friendly when compared to other center right and right wing parties in the west?

Well, they have cut back some rail electrification programmes lately.
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Oryxslayer
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« Reply #1035 on: November 29, 2019, 03:38:20 pm »
« Edited: November 29, 2019, 03:55:25 pm by Oryxslayer »

This is probably more out of ignorance than anything else, but I was under the impression the Tories were pretty climate friendly when compared to other center right and right wing parties in the west?

Depends on who you are comparing the  Conservatives to. If you are comparing them to other deep-blue Right-wingers around the globe, then the Tories are more ecologically friendly than the rest. This is because they have historically faced Green party and Lib-Dem assaults in their southern shires based on ecological issues. It's mostly a bottom up effect from various council-level challenges which influences the MPs positions, even though their seats are safe. Sometimes this is more local in focus (don't cut down the trees on 'x' street, preserve the Greenbelt culture of our town), and sometimes this is more Global (recycling bins and programs to reduce  litter, insulating homes to lower electricity usage). However, if you are comparing to other UK parties, the Tories are the most ecologically right-wing party that actually has a chance and winning seats in the main 632.
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CumbrianLeftie
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« Reply #1036 on: November 29, 2019, 04:59:25 pm »

There's also a 7 way debate in Cardiff tonight, but BoJo, Corbyn, and Farage are sending replacements. I get the feeling that this debate may have a lot of security related questions after what happened today.

There was some reference to it, but it far from swamped the debate.
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EastAnglianLefty
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« Reply #1037 on: November 29, 2019, 05:01:48 pm »

The Tories are generally the party of the motorist - they've kept fuel duty frozen whereas it went up sharply under Labour; they tend to be the keenest supporters of road upgrades and they're usually the least interested party in public transport.

We don't have a lot of carbon-intensive heavy industry, but campaigns against onshore wind turbines and solar farms are usually Conservative front groups and they were the only people who were even vaguely keen on fracking.

They don't go in for much in the way of global warning denial (although there is a bit of that on their fringes) but they're certainly the option of choice for those who prioritise things remaining as they are over climate mitigation efforts.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #1038 on: November 29, 2019, 05:43:09 pm »

Campaigning has been suspended because of the terrorist attack.

Also, the first of the weekend poll glut has arrived. Panelbase: Con 42, Lab 34, LDem 13, BP 4, Greens 3

Plus two to Labour, plus one for the Greens and Brexit Party, minus one for the LibDems. Implied swing of 3pts to Con since 2017. Fieldwork on the 27th and 28th.
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #1039 on: November 30, 2019, 02:05:09 am »


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Nathan
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« Reply #1040 on: November 30, 2019, 03:08:50 am »

What in the world is the Mr. Burns map? The European elections?
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Trends are real, and I f**king hate it
Antonio V
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« Reply #1041 on: November 30, 2019, 03:14:54 am »


Yes.
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cp
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« Reply #1042 on: November 30, 2019, 12:51:47 pm »



Labour closing the gap with accelerating speed. Still outside the margin of error for a tie, though.
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urutzizu
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« Reply #1043 on: November 30, 2019, 02:08:45 pm »

Hm. This one shows a different story.


Also noticable is that even with the BMG one there seems to be on the face of it no direct Cons to Lab transfers. But that is impossible to tell by only the headline figures of course.
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UncleSam
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« Reply #1044 on: November 30, 2019, 02:42:23 pm »

I mean those polls seem consistent with conservatives in the low forties and Labour within a couple points of 33.

Where is the Green Party in the second poll, btw?
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Oryxslayer
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« Reply #1045 on: November 30, 2019, 04:35:35 pm »

Mods, can we please kick out the troll?
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Oryxslayer
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« Reply #1046 on: November 30, 2019, 04:39:56 pm »

The biggest difference between ComRes and BMG is probably the polling dates. BMG polled Thursday/Friday, ComRes Wednesday/Thursday. Last week we had on bombshells news story each day, the kind of story that could have reoriented the campaign if it was given time to stew. But, we didn't, and instead the voting opinions could very well differ drastically depending on which stories are captured. I suspect we may see more variation tomorrow between those polled early in the week, those polled later, and those polled all 5 days.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #1047 on: November 30, 2019, 04:48:42 pm »

Hm. This one shows a different story.


ComRes put out two polls a week at present rather than one - those figures are compared with the midweek poll. Compared with their last weekend poll there's no shift in the lead. In general they have been (a bit bizarrely given the reputation they used to have) one of the more stable pollsters this time round.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #1048 on: November 30, 2019, 04:50:07 pm »

The biggest difference between ComRes and BMG is probably the polling dates.

Yes, the fact that the main commissioners of polling during an election are the Sunday papers is... problematic. Note that Panelbase polls at the same time as the Sunday glut but releases on Saturday. Doesn't mean their findings are older.
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Oryxslayer
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« Reply #1049 on: November 30, 2019, 05:01:36 pm »
« Edited: November 30, 2019, 05:04:38 pm by Oryxslayer »



Another weekend poll. Their one of the  outliers  with the Tories that high though.



I don't think this would change the seat-by-seat model that much if it was the results of their next 100K polled respondents.
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