Who would most modern democrats vote for in 1924?

[coolface1572]

Would most modern democrats vote today have voted for Calvin Coolidge, John W Davis, or Robert Lafollette?

[Wazza [INACTIVE]]

Davis, LaFollette and Coolidge in that order.

[Not_A_Doctor]

Davis, LaFollette and Coolidge in that order.

LOL no. almost no modern Democrats would have voted for a racist, misogynistic, conservative Dixiecrat like Davis, assuming we're asking who they would have voted for if they were teleported back to 1924.

If we're asking who modern Democrats would have voted for if they had been living in that time period and were still Democrats, then yes, most would have voted for Davis, obviously.

Me personally, I would have voted for Coolidge easily if LaFollette wasn't in the race. he wasn't that much different on economic issues than Davis anyway and he was also far less racist.

[Orser67]

Davis, LaFollette and Coolidge in that order.

LOL no. almost no modern Democrats would have voted for a racist, misogynistic, conservative Dixiecrat like Davis, assuming we're asking who they would have voted for if they were teleported back to 1924.

Yeah, I imagine the left wing of today's Democratic Party would be all-in for La Follette, while moderate Democrats would favor La Follette (who was pretty radical, especially by 1924) over Coolidge by a significant margin. Davis might attract some conservadem support in the South, but that's about it.

[darklordoftech]

Davis is, is along with Alton Parker and Trump, one of the least qualified people to ever be nominated for President.

[OSR stands with Israel]

If the election was held today La Follette would be the Democratic Nominee while Davis would be probably be a nominee of the Libertarian Party.

Even if you remove all the racist parts of Davis's legacy he is still way way too conservative to be the Dem Nominee. Look at his economic platform, it literally is probably the 3rd most right-wing platform any party has ran on in at least the past 120 years with only Harding's 1920 and Coolidge's 1924 platform being more right-wing. With those economic views Davis would either be a Republican or Libertarian .



 

[Wazza [INACTIVE]]

Davis, LaFollette and Coolidge in that order.

LOL no. almost no modern Democrats would have voted for a racist, misogynistic, conservative Dixiecrat like Davis, assuming we're asking who they would have voted for if they were teleported back to 1924.

If we're asking who modern Democrats would have voted for if they had been living in that time period and were still Democrats, then yes, most would have voted for Davis, obviously.

Me personally, I would have voted for Coolidge easily if LaFollette wasn't in the race. he wasn't that much different on economic issues than Davis anyway and he was also far less racist.

It sure is easy to slap labels like “conservative” and “liberal” on things isn’t it? Davis helped write the Clayton Anti-trust act, he successfully defended the constitutionality of many Wilsonian reforms as solicitor general, was against prohibition and even denounced the KKK and successfully argued for the illegality of OK’s “grandfather laws”. Davis’ mistrust of centralisation of power extended to both government and private enterprise which of course put him at odds with the leadership of the Republican Party. This isn’t the outlook of a conservative. Additionally, to call him a “Dixiecrat” is stupid, he was never a member of the states rights Democratic Party.

Sure he was racist, but so were 95% of people in the 1920s, including the GOP which was rife with Protestant nativists and WASP supremacists. La Folettes agrarian focused and rather radical campaign would have appealed to many of the true believers in the Warren and Bernie camps but i doubt it would of appealed to most of the modern Democratic electorate.

[Wazza [INACTIVE]]

If the election was held today La Follette would be the Democratic Nominee while Davis would be probably be a nominee of the Libertarian Party.

Even if you remove all the racist parts of Davis's legacy he is still way way too conservative to be the Dem Nominee. Look at his economic platform, it literally is probably the 3rd most right-wing platform any party has ran on in at least the past 120 years with only Harding's 1920 and Coolidge's 1924 platform being more right-wing. With those economic views Davis would either be a Republican or Libertarian .



 

Where did you draw these conclusions? The 1924 Democratic platform is certainly not one of the most right wing in history and attacks the Republican Party and it’s policies as inegalitarian, favourable to the privileged few at the expense of the masses, and uncaring of the wider international community. It’s hardly conservative.

[darklordoftech]

If one’s stance on prohibition was enough to make one a Democrat today, Ron Paul would be a Democrat.

[RINO Tom]

If one’s stance on prohibition was enough to make one a Democrat today, Ron Paul would be a Democrat.

He cited a lot more than that.

[Orser67]

If the election was held today La Follette would be the Democratic Nominee while Davis would be probably be a nominee of the Libertarian Party.

Even if you remove all the racist parts of Davis's legacy he is still way way too conservative to be the Dem Nominee. Look at his economic platform, it literally is probably the 3rd most right-wing platform any party has ran on in at least the past 120 years with only Harding's 1920 and Coolidge's 1924 platform being more right-wing. With those economic views Davis would either be a Republican or Libertarian .



 

Where did you draw these conclusions? The 1924 Democratic platform is certainly not one of the most right wing in history and attacks the Republican Party and it’s policies as inegalitarian, favourable to the privileged few at the expense of the masses, and uncaring of the wider international community. It’s hardly conservative.

Backing up a little bit, the platform was adopted before the presidential balloting. So it doesn't necessarily reflect Davis's belief, unless you want to make the argument that he would have felt bound to the platform.

Davis is one of the obscure presidential candidates in history so it's difficult to draw particularly informed conclusions on him, but he appears to have been a fairly conservative, pro-states' rights, anti-civil rights Southern Democrat who also happened to be a corporate lawyer. All of that is pretty much what you'd expect from a West Virginia Democrat in the first quarter of the 20th century who was in good standing with the national party establishment.

Whatever credit he deserves for denouncing the Klan or arguing against the grandfather clause while serving as solicitor general should also be balanced with the fact that he later was the lead counsel for the defense in Brown v. Board of Education. And I don't know how much he actually had to with writing the Clayton Act, given that it passed over a year after he left Congress; if he had any effect at all, it's certainly possible he pushed the bill to the right rather than to the left. La Follette and Coolidge aren't perfect fits for the modern Democratic Party, but Davis seems worse than either.

Edited to add: According to Leslie Southwicks's Presidential Also-Rans and Running Mates (2nd edition), Davis personally didn't want to see the Grandfather Clause struck down, but made the argument on behalf of the government since, well, it was his job to support the Wilson administration's positions. He also apparently only reluctantly denounced the Klan. He did support some of Wilson's progressive reforms, but by the 1920s he was opposed to government regulation on major industries and favored tax cuts for the rich.

[RINO Tom]

^ LaFollett, sure, but I disagree with Coolidge.  He’s literally Mitt Romney except possibly more conservative.

[Wazza [INACTIVE]]

If the election was held today La Follette would be the Democratic Nominee while Davis would be probably be a nominee of the Libertarian Party.

Even if you remove all the racist parts of Davis's legacy he is still way way too conservative to be the Dem Nominee. Look at his economic platform, it literally is probably the 3rd most right-wing platform any party has ran on in at least the past 120 years with only Harding's 1920 and Coolidge's 1924 platform being more right-wing. With those economic views Davis would either be a Republican or Libertarian .



 

Where did you draw these conclusions? The 1924 Democratic platform is certainly not one of the most right wing in history and attacks the Republican Party and it’s policies as inegalitarian, favourable to the privileged few at the expense of the masses, and uncaring of the wider international community. It’s hardly conservative.

Backing up a little bit, the platform was adopted before the presidential balloting. So it doesn't necessarily reflect Davis's belief, unless you want to make the argument that he would have felt bound to the platform.

Davis is one of the obscure presidential candidates in history so it's difficult to draw particularly informed conclusions on him, but he appears to have been a fairly conservative, pro-states' rights, anti-civil rights Southern Democrat who also happened to be a corporate lawyer. All of that is pretty much what you'd expect from a West Virginia Democrat in the first quarter of the 20th century who was in good standing with the national party establishment.

Whatever credit he deserves for denouncing the Klan or arguing against the grandfather clause while serving as solicitor general should also be balanced with the fact that he later was the lead counsel for the defense in Brown v. Board of Education. And I don't know how much he actually had to with writing the Clayton Act, given that it passed over a year after he left Congress; if he had any effect at all, it's certainly possible he pushed the bill to the right rather than to the left. La Follette and Coolidge aren't perfect fits for the modern Democratic Party, but Davis seems worse than either.

Edited to add: According to Leslie Southwicks's Presidential Also-Rans and Running Mates (2nd edition), Davis personally didn't want to see the Grandfather Clause struck down, but made the argument on behalf of the government since, well, it was his job to support the Wilson administration's positions. He also apparently only reluctantly denounced the Klan. He did support some of Wilson's progressive reforms, but by the 1920s he was opposed to government regulation on major industries and favored tax cuts for the rich.

Davis indeed did feel bound by the 1924 Platform. Here is an excerpt of his DNC speech in 1924 published in the NYT on the 10th of July:

"The great principles of the Democratic Party: Honesty in Government; all public office is a public trust; equal rights to all men; and special privileges to none; fair and equal taxation; an open door of opportunity to the humblest citizen in all the land; loyalty at home, courage and honor and helpfulness abroad.

These principles are as dear to the American of the East as the American of the West, as highly revered by the American of the North as they are by the American of the South. And in the name of this truly national creed, this truly and national party, is ready again to do battle with all, those who challenge this creed or any part of it. On this platform all progressives in this country can stand; to this banner all liberals can rally, and in this cause all Democrats can-aye, more, all Democrats will unite."

He also made this statement in January 1924:

"Problems change and policies change from year to year and from age to age, but the fundamental truths of equality of right, equality of opportunity, individual liberty, hatred of privilege and confidence in people, which give life and strength to the Democratic Party, remain through all the years the same. So long as it rests on these sure foundations no transient differences  of opinions about questions of the moment can long divide or distress the Democracy.

We may leave to our Republican opponents such terms as conservative and radical, progressive and reactionary, regular and insurgent, to describe or explain the bitter discord that divides their ranks. We are content with a nobler adjective. It is the glory of the Democratic Party to be known as the party of liberalism speaking for and in the name of the liberal thought of the country. As such, it is not ashamed to learn from the lessons of the past, and not afraid, because they are new, to face the problems of the future. There is room in its ranks for all men, high and low, rich and poor, who love freedom and ordered liberty, and who wish nothing for themselves that their neighbors may not equally enjoy."

Here is William Jennings Bryan making the case for Davis on the 5th of October:

We are prepared to offer a Democratic program based on Democratic principles and guaranteed by a record of Democratic performance. This program we have outline in our platform. These principles are those by which the Democratic Party has been guided throughout the years and which, like the creed of the Church, should be repeated whenever Democrats assemble- a belief in equal rights to all men and special privileges to none; in an ever wider and more equitable distribution of the rewards of toil and industry; in the suppression of private monopoly as a thing indefensible and intolerable in the largest liberty for every individual; in local self government as against a centralized bureaucracy; in public office as a public trust; in a government administered without fear abroad or favoritism at home.

This ringing enumeration of the basic tenets of the Democratic Party recalls the platform of the party embodied by Thomas Jefferson in his first message. It will be noticed that the Democratic candidate emphasizes the central principle of Jefferson's creed- 'equal rights to all men and special privileges to none.' He also emphasizes the modern application of this principle to present conditions: it was written for the fifth time in a Democratic platform and reads as follows: 'A private monopoly is indefensible and intolerable.'

It is important as well as interesting to note that Mr. Coolidge warns against government monopolies, while Mr. Davis warns agains private monopolies. Mr Coolidge says: "This country would not be a land of opportunity, America would not be America, if the people were shackled with Government monopolies."

The La Follette platform, presented by the minority at Cleveland, began with the sentence: "The great issue before the American people today is the control of government and industry by private monopoly." Mr Davis and Mr La Follette view the subject from the same standpoint and dignify it by placing the issue among the vital ones. Mr Davis states his opposition to private monopoly in language as strong and unequivocal as Mr. La Follette ever employed. Mr Coolidge states his opposition to government monopoly in language equally strong. Mr. Davis is unwilling to trust monopolistic power in the hands of private individuals, who conspire in secret to use the power of monopoly for private advantages and pecuniary profit. Mr. Coolidge, on the other hand, is afraid to trust the power of monopoly in the hands of the Government, even though the Government acts in the open and uses for the benefit of all the people the power that monopoly confers.

Davis additionally won the praise and support of McAdoo, Smith, FDR and basically every other key figure int he Democratic Party after his nomination at the convention, and as for "states rights" being inherently conservative, thats a relatively recent assumption in US politics and even today politicians across the ideological divide champion states rights when it suits them, so its not incredibly decisive.

The excerpts of primary sources I've shown here though clearly shows that Davis' "conservatism" is massively overstated. I could go on to quote more, about how Davis was a strong League of Nations supporter and internationalist, his support for direct taxation over regressive indirect taxation such as the tariff and how his campaign was fashioned as a middle option as opposed to Coolidge's "conservatism" and LaFollettes "radicalism". It consistently shows how through lack of easily available information has lead to gross simplifications and mischaracterizations of historical political figures.

[Orser67]

Interesting. Maybe Southwick (who writes that "his conservatism is the one great political attribute of his politics") and some other sources are overstating Davis's conservatism in 1924.

With that said (and this isn't necessarily relevant to how people would vote in 1924), it's pretty clear that he was quite conservative by the 1930s, when he became an anti-New Deal Democrat, supported Republicans over all three of Roosevelt's election bids, and later served as the defense's lead counsel in Brown v. Board.

[Wazza [INACTIVE]]

Interesting. Maybe Southwick (who writes that "his conservatism is the one great political attribute of his politics") and some other sources are overstating Davis's conservatism in 1924.

With that said (and this isn't necessarily relevant to how people would vote in 1924), it's pretty clear that he was quite conservative by the 1930s, when he became an anti-New Deal Democrat, supported Republicans over all three of Roosevelt's election bids, and later served as the defense's lead counsel in Brown v. Board.

Indeed Davis became more conservative as he got older. Al Smith is another prominent Democrat from this era who later became a vocal opponent of the New Deal during the 30s.

[darklordoftech]

I wonder how people who were immigrants but were anti-lynching would vote.

[OSR stands with Israel]

^ LaFollett, sure, but I disagree with Coolidge.  He’s literally Mitt Romney except possibly more conservative.

No lol, Coolidge is basically Rand Paul but a little more protectionist. Coolidge also is  closer to Trump(not personality-wise though) than he is to Romney .

[darklordoftech]

^ LaFollett, sure, but I disagree with Coolidge.  He’s literally Mitt Romney except possibly more conservative.

No lol, Coolidge is basically Rand Paul but a little more protectionist. Coolidge also is  closer to Trump(not personality-wise though) than he is to Romney .

Coolidge was way too uptight to be Trump-like personality-wise.

[OSR stands with Israel]

^ LaFollett, sure, but I disagree with Coolidge.  He’s literally Mitt Romney except possibly more conservative.

No lol, Coolidge is basically Rand Paul but a little more protectionist. Coolidge also is  closer to Trump(not personality-wise though) than he is to Romney .

Coolidge was way too uptight to be Trump-like personality-wise.

I said not personality wise lol.


Actually I found the best parallel: Scott Walker

[TDAS04]

La Follette.

The Coolidge/Romney comparison generally fits.  John Davis, idk, there could be some similarities between him and fellow West Virginia Democrats Robert Byrd and Joe Manchin, even if there are flaws with both comparisons.

[darklordoftech]

^ LaFollett, sure, but I disagree with Coolidge.  He’s literally Mitt Romney except possibly more conservative.

No lol, Coolidge is basically Rand Paul but a little more protectionist. Coolidge also is  closer to Trump(not personality-wise though) than he is to Romney .

Coolidge was way too uptight to be Trump-like personality-wise.

I said not personality wise lol.


Actually I found the best parallel: Scott Walker

I misread the post. I didn’t notice that you said “not” before you said “personality-wise”.

[Mr. Smith]

Davis is, is along with Alton Parker and Trump, one of the least qualified people to ever be nominated for President.

Parker is a lot more qualified than credit is given, especially when considering just how powerful a state New York was.

It's the same reason being Collector for the Port mattered so much too.

[John Henry Eden]

Probably for a party that reflects modern progressiveness, in other words Guys like Wilson would terrify them lol.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I cannot emphasize enough my elation at reading Wazza's posts about the anti-corporate nature of the Democratic party even in the 1920's, when it was supposedly so Conservative. Granted this whole thread is about it, but you must always be careful about applying modern understandings of ideology to the past.

As someone said, "everyone was racist in 1924", this is true, but you need to consider what this implies. It means that the liberal - conservative divide fell along different lines. The obvious fact is that the Democrats regarded themselves as the champions for 19th century liberalism: Free Trade, Immigration, International diplomacy, religious tolerance and anti-corporate power/monopoly.