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December 12, 2019, 01:38:02 pm
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  Any Never-Bernie democrats?
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Author Topic: Any Never-Bernie democrats?  (Read 527 times)
coolface1572
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« on: November 11, 2019, 08:28:28 pm »

Are you a never-bernie democrat? If so, why?
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GeneralMacArthur
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« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2019, 02:03:41 am »
« Edited: November 13, 2019, 02:06:42 am by GeneralMacArthur »

I would vote for Bernie Sanders in a general election if he was up against Trump, but I would vote for a dead dog over Sanders in the primary.

Why?  Because the man is an egotistical, exploitative hack who's built a career out of smears and lies.

His entire persona is based on the smear that every other politician is bought and paid for by billionaires and big corporations, and that's why they won't pass his legislation, and he is the one pure, untainted man.

His whole policy platform is just simplistic populist garbage.  Real health care reform is immensely complicated, and requires 2500 page bills that go into minute detail about different health conditions and services, relationships between providers and insurers, special edge and corner cases, funding mechanisms, and so on.  Imaginary health care reform is when you just say "whatever problem you have, my magic plan will make sure it gets solved, you won't need any other plan."  And all his plans are like this.  A nuanced plan to make some college free, some college more affordable, and make student loans easier to pay off, that's real policy.  "Oh I'll just forgive everyone's debt and make college free" is populist garbage.

But in spite of this, he insists that his positions are the ONLY acceptable positions, that all other positions are CORPORATE, that his fellow Democrats only hold those positions because BILLIONAIRES HAVE BRIBED THEM.

As for how to actually pass his plans?  He's never accomplished anything in Congress, but insists that he and he alone will be able to pass this massive, transformative legislation that is opposed by the vast majority of legislators in both parties and the American people.  There have been two massive health care fights in the last 30 years.  In 1993, Hillary Clinton tried to pass universal health care, and was defeated.  In 2009, Barack Obama worked his tail off to pass universal health care, had to compromise with centrists in his party to get Obamacare, and only barely passed it, then suffered a devastating midterm defeat and had to defend it in court twice.  Trying to pass single payer would make these two battles, both waged with large Democratic majorities, look like cakewalks.  But Bernie, the man who has never accomplished anything, will somehow be able to do the impossible, and we'll just have to trust him on that because whenever he's asked about this he just says REVOLUTION.

So in summary, Bernie's positions are the ONLY acceptable positions.  All other positions are CORPORATE, and his fellow Democrats only hold those positions because they are CORRUPT and have been bribed by BILLIONAIRES.  Despite his positions being impossible to enact into legislation, and him never having written real legislation for them or tried to pass anything through Congress, all we have to do is elect him president and it will all magically happen by the power of REVOLUTION.  And if you question this, or criticize his policies, REPUBLICAN TALKING POINTS.

And that's not even starting on him as a person.  Why is it that Bernie is always surrounded by the worst people?  Why do all the worst figures in left-wing media and Twitter support him?  Why is his campaign employing tons of Jill Stein supporters and scam artists?  Even putting aside his kamikazeing into Hillary Clinton in April-July 2016, he's done so many other deplorable things.  Like when he went down to Florida to endorse Seth Rich truther Tim Canova against DWS.  Or how about when his campaign lied to supporters at the Nevada convention about the rules to try to concoct a DNC conspiracy out of thin air, his supporters rioted, the Nevada state party called him out on it, and he blamed them, which led Harry Reid to condemn him?  No other Democrat does this sh*t, it's always Bernie, causing trouble left and right in pursuit of his own self-interest above all else.
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President Johnson
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« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2019, 04:47:13 am »

I'd definitely support the Bern over Trump, but anyone in the Democratic primary except Gabbard and Williamson over him.
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BP1202
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« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2019, 08:44:30 am »

him never having written real legislation for them or tried to pass anything through Congress
Per usual, you are a MASSIVE LIAR.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/bernard_sanders/400357
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Orser67
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« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2019, 10:35:53 am »

I'd definitely support the Bern over Trump, but anyone in the Democratic primary except Gabbard and Williamson over him.

Same for the most part, though I'd personally add Bloomberg and Yang to the list of people I'd support Sanders over.
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GeneralMacArthur
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« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2019, 06:52:19 pm »

him never having written real legislation for them or tried to pass anything through Congress
Per usual, you are a MASSIVE LIAR.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/bernard_sanders/400357

That isn't real legislation.  You should try reading it sometime.  It's middle school meme legislation at best, and most of it isn't even that, just sheets of paper saying "we want to do this lol make it happen"
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BP1202
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« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2019, 07:41:25 pm »
« Edited: November 14, 2019, 07:45:14 pm by BP1202 »

him never having written real legislation for them or tried to pass anything through Congress
Per usual, you are a MASSIVE LIAR.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/bernard_sanders/400357

That isn't real legislation.  You should try reading it sometime.  It's middle school meme legislation at best, and most of it isn't even that, just sheets of paper saying "we want to do this lol make it happen"
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/s893/summary

I actually don't care about whatever legislation he did or didn't pass; I'm arguing on your terms
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Judy Baar Topinka
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« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2019, 08:34:52 pm »

I’m Maybe Bernie.
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GeneralMacArthur
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« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2019, 10:32:01 pm »

him never having written real legislation for them or tried to pass anything through Congress
Per usual, you are a MASSIVE LIAR.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/bernard_sanders/400357

That isn't real legislation.  You should try reading it sometime.  It's middle school meme legislation at best, and most of it isn't even that, just sheets of paper saying "we want to do this lol make it happen"
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/s893/summary

I actually don't care about whatever legislation he did or didn't pass; I'm arguing on your terms

This is literally the only serious legislation he has ever passed, and it's one single page.
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Senator Peanut
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« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2019, 01:46:21 pm »

I was a Clinton supporter back in '16, and I wasn't excited when Bernie announced this time around, but I have to admit he's been growing on me.
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beaver2.0
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« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2019, 02:01:56 pm »

I'd consider not voting for him.  But probably would end up voting Sanders if it was him vs. Trump.
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Mondale
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« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2019, 01:29:27 am »

Ill vote for Warren but I will.never vote for Biden
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darklordoftech
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« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2019, 02:09:21 am »

I think that just as Hillary was so hated by Republicans that there weren’t many Never-Trumpers, Trump is so hated by Democrats that there’s few Never-The-Nominee Democrats.
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Cory Booker
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« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2019, 01:24:35 pm »

Bernie and Biden are old news, Warren and Buttigieg are today's news.
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DINO Tom
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« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2019, 06:56:06 pm »

Normally, I'd be diehard #NeverBernie, but here's the thing: Trump is a sociopathic sex predator and a genuine quisling.  He may very well be a rapist too.  I may not like Bernie, but if I didn't vote for him then I there would come a day when I'd have to look my kids in the eye and tell them that during a time of great crisis, I sat on the sidelines like a petulant, spoiled rich kid out of spite instead of swallowing my pride and doing what I could for my fellow Americans.  And I don't know how you do that nor do I want to.  So, I'd hate it, but in the end there's not a shred of doubt in my mind that I'd do the right thing and vote for Sanders (although I'd definitely vote third party in 2024).
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« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2019, 07:44:17 pm »

So, I'd hate it, but in the end there's not a shred of doubt in my mind that I'd do the right thing and vote for Sanders (although I'd definitely vote third party in 2024).

This is the part I don't understand — do you think the GOP nominee in 2024 will be any less of a threat? We are through the looking glass now, and I cannot imagine that President Carlson's administration will be any less of a horrow show than what's happening now.
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DINO Tom
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« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2019, 11:27:12 pm »
« Edited: November 17, 2019, 11:01:55 am by Nixon was framed by the Deep State's Deep Throat »

So, I'd hate it, but in the end there's not a shred of doubt in my mind that I'd do the right thing and vote for Sanders (although I'd definitely vote third party in 2024).

This is the part I don't understand — do you think the GOP nominee in 2024 will be any less of a threat? We are through the looking glass now, and I cannot imagine that President Carlson's administration will be any less of a horrow show than what's happening now.

Re: The bolded part: In a word, yes.  That's a very low bar tbh.

One would hope the GOP nominee in 2024 won't be a sociopathic serial sexual predator facing facing a credible rape allegation who committed numerous impeachable offenses - many of which warrant criminal prosecution and jail time - as well as knowingly and deliberately conspiring with our enemies abroad to undermine America’s national security because those regimes were in a position to advance the nominee’s personal business interests in return.  That alone makes them less awful.  Plus, I suspect Ginsberg and Breyer will have been replaced by then, so there’s that. 

Also, I think Romney is currently the most likely 2024 nominee (this could obviously change very easily) and he's nowhere near as bad as Trump.  Still pretty bad, but I could vote third-party in perfectly good conscience in a Bernie vs. Mittens race without giving it a second thought.  Now if the Republicans nominated someone like, say, Paul Ryan (who is basically a modern day devil in a top hat), then I'd probably have to vote Bernie again.  I think the whole Kasich/Romney corporatist Moderate Hero stuff is a load of BS, but they’re objectively no where near as bad as Trump.  They’re just not; Trump is an existential threat to the American way of life who hates everything our country stands for and represents the absolute worst America has to offer.  There is a difference. 

Trump in 2020 is a case where it really is as black and white as good vs. evil (unless, say, Gabbard were nominated making it evil vs. evil), I don’t think you could say that in any other Presidential election during my lifetime.  Even in 2016, who could’ve honestly imagined it’d be this bad?  I could see some people rationalizing a Trump vote away for some reason.  Now though, everyone knows what’s at stake whether they admit it or not.  I know that good people can still easily get caught up in something evil w/o even realizing it (just look at Fuzzy), that I get.  What I want to know is how a left-wing activist or a liberal suburban businessperson sleeps at night if they sit this one out b/c they didn’t get there way in the primaries.  That I don’t understand and have no sympathy for, but I don’t think generic R rises to that level.

I also think Bernie would be an absolutely disastrous President with few if any major accomplishments, some pretty bad ideas, a lot of horrible friends who make be worry about both his judgment and personal views/prejudices, and the potential to cripple the progressive movement for at least a generation.  But he’s not a mentally unstable monster who hates everything America stands for, Trump is and every day he is in office - which he holds due to an election in which he got fewer votes - makes a mockery of America’s most cherished values.  Tbh Sanders is a really good Senator and is an invaluable voice for a certain ideological perspective which needs to be heard.  Not every good Senator would make a good President. But 2020 is really a special case that transcends ideological considerations.   

But this is all academic since Bernie isn't gonna be the nominee.
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