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December 12, 2019, 01:43:22 pm
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  LC 5.6: Lincoln Assualt Weapon and Automatic Weapon Ban Act (Passed)
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Author Topic: LC 5.6: Lincoln Assualt Weapon and Automatic Weapon Ban Act (Passed)  (Read 543 times)
Speaker OneJ
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« on: November 12, 2019, 05:49:00 pm »
« edited: November 26, 2019, 07:28:37 pm by Speaker OneJ »

Quote
Lincoln Assault Weapon and Automatic Weapon Ban Act

SECTION I: NAME

1. This bill may be cited as the Lincoln Assault Weapon and Automatic Weapon Ban Act.
2. This bill may, in short, be cited as the Lincoln Assault Weapon Ban Act.

SECTION II: ASSAULT WEAPON BAN

1. There shall be a regiowide ban on the purchasing, sale, or possession of assualt weapons, these weapons include semiautomatic rifles, pistols, and shotguns, which can accept detachable magazines, as well as revolving cylindrical shotguns.

2. Any weapon that is purchased, sold, or possessed may not have a folding or collapsible stock, a bayonet lug, a threaded barrel, a grenade launcher, or a barrel shroud.

SECTION III: AUTOMATIC WEAPON BAN

1. There shall be a ban on the purchasing, sale, or possession of fully automatic weapons, also known as Title II weapons under the National Firearms Act.

SECTION IV: LEGAL LIABILITIES FOR GUN MANUFACTURERS

1. Gun manufacturers may be sued if their weapons are used in violent crimes, by family members, close friends, and/or legal counsel of family members or close friends of gun violence victims.

2. Manufacturers may be sued for up to $15 million.

3. These cases will be be submitted to, heard, and ruled on by Lincoln's regional Justice.

SECTION V: GUN TAX

1. There shall be a 15% additional tax imposed on all shotguns

2. There shall be a 30% additional tax imposed on all handguns and pistols

3. There shall be a 50% additional tax imposed on all other firearms, that are legal to purchase, under this bill.

SECTION VI: TIMING

1. This bill shall take effect, one week after being signed by the Governor.


Sponsor: S019
Status: Debating

LC 5.6 has been introduced to the floor and debate shall last no less than 72 hours.
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Representative fhtagn
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« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2019, 06:06:00 pm »

Not sure why SNJC felt the need to reintroduce a bill that the council unanimously voted to table last session...

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=335266.0
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Chancellor S019
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« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2019, 11:43:58 pm »

This is a commonsense and ambitious proposal which seeks to keep dangerous weapons off of our streets. The time has come for common sense gun reform in Lincoln. This bill seeks to attain that and move us closer to our goal of a safer Lincoln. I urge the Council to vote AYE on this bill.
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AustralianSwingVoter
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« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2019, 12:53:10 am »

Everything that could be reasonably defined as common sense gun control already exists in Lincoln under the Firearms Safety Act. Any Councillors interested in the very many negatives of this bill should simply read the debate on this exact bill from the last Council session. And I should note Councillors OneJ and Pragmatist both voted to table this last session.
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Speaker OneJ
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« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2019, 11:03:23 pm »

For what it's worth, my opinion on this hasn't really changed since the last session, so I won't vote aye on it.
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AustralianSwingVoter
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« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2019, 01:34:41 am »
« Edited: November 16, 2019, 01:37:53 am by AustralianSwingVoter »

Just quoting some debate to help any Councillors make their mind up.
I'm concerned regarding the vague ban on possession of Title II weapons and how the regional government plans to institute such a ban. Most of these types of weapons are already heavily regulated and are not readily available for gun owners. Will museums be prohibited from displaying historical weaponry matching Title II descriptions?

If the purpose of this part of the bill is to address public safety, I would argue that the Firearms Safety Act did that perfectly fine without instituting a ban.

Also, why are shotguns specifically targeted in Sec 5? Why tax such a specific firearm?
I echo the sentiments of Pyro, weíve already passed comprehensive gun reform, and such changes are very similar or go into further depth than this one. This bill isnít needed.

Most problematic is the concept that someone who produces something is responsible if someone uses that product in a criminal manner. Should knife manufacturers pay compensation if someone stabs someone using a kitchen knife they manufactured? Should a Garden Tool manufacturer be responsible if someone buys their tools and uses them to dismember a body?
And the tax rates are not only absurdly high but illogical. On what grounds are Shotguns taxed the lowest, while Rifles are taxed at 50%.

Lincoln already has mandatory Background Checks. Lincoln already has concealed carry. Lincoln already bans sales of firearms to minors. These proposed additional measures are counterproductive and will do far more harm than good.


Also, a couple thoughts on the Gun bill from a Game Engine perspective as the Deputy GM-nominate:
the high tax rates on guns would certainly lead to an enormous black market, and would really undermine current gun control policies already in effect.
Suing gun manufacturers would establish an illogical legal precedent than if you manufacture something you are responsible for if someone buys it and uses it in a criminal manner.
Banning possession of automatic weapons would definitely cause enforcement problems and if anything might encourage a black market for those weapons
I can't think of any problems around the normal parts of the AWB. It's certainly a divisive policy but there wouldn't be major implications from it
In short, the AWB is normal but everything else won't actually reduce the rate of gun crime and will only make guns a black market product and thus more potent and more dangerous, just like alcohol during the prohibition.
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« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2019, 01:43:11 am »

Just quoting some debate to help any Councillors make their mind up.
I'm concerned regarding the vague ban on possession of Title II weapons and how the regional government plans to institute such a ban. Most of these types of weapons are already heavily regulated and are not readily available for gun owners. Will museums be prohibited from displaying historical weaponry matching Title II descriptions?

If the purpose of this part of the bill is to address public safety, I would argue that the Firearms Safety Act did that perfectly fine without instituting a ban.

Also, why are shotguns specifically targeted in Sec 5? Why tax such a specific firearm?
I echo the sentiments of Pyro, weíve already passed comprehensive gun reform, and such changes are very similar or go into further depth than this one. This bill isnít needed.

Most problematic is the concept that someone who produces something is responsible if someone uses that product in a criminal manner. Should knife manufacturers pay compensation if someone stabs someone using a kitchen knife they manufactured? Should a Garden Tool manufacturer be responsible if someone buys their tools and uses them to dismember a body?
And the tax rates are not only absurdly high but illogical. On what grounds are Shotguns taxed the lowest, while Rifles are taxed at 50%.

Lincoln already has mandatory Background Checks. Lincoln already has concealed carry. Lincoln already bans sales of firearms to minors. These proposed additional measures are counterproductive and will do far more harm than good.


Also, a couple thoughts on the Gun bill from a Game Engine perspective as the Deputy GM-nominate:
the high tax rates on guns would certainly lead to an enormous black market, and would really undermine current gun control policies already in effect.
Suing gun manufacturers would establish an illogical legal precedent than if you manufacture something you are responsible for if someone buys it and uses it in a criminal manner.
Banning possession of automatic weapons would definitely cause enforcement problems and if anything might encourage a black market for those weapons
I can't think of any problems around the normal parts of the AWB. It's certainly a divisive policy but there wouldn't be major implications from it
In short, the AWB is normal but everything else won't actually reduce the rate of gun crime and will only make guns a black market product and thus more potent and more dangerous, just like alcohol during the prohibition.

An AWB would absolutely create a black market, and suggesting it wouldn't is silly. That's also operating under the assumption that people who already own one are willing to give them up, which you know they won't.
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AustralianSwingVoter
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« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2019, 01:50:53 am »

An AWB would absolutely create a black market, and suggesting it wouldn't is silly. That's also operating under the assumption that people who already own one are willing to give them up, which you know they won't.

As I did say, from a GM perspective banning possession is certainly going to create problems with effective enforcement.
And on the AWB, America had an AWB for a decade from '94-'04 and there are AWBs in effect in 7 states and DC. The overwhelming weight of evidence is that AWBs are generally ineffective in actually reducing the rate of gun crime. Meanwhile there isn't much evidence of large black markets as assault weapons aren't particularly useful or effective to anyone who needs a gun.
If you ban Assault Weapons nothing happens because Assault Weapon ownership is pretty small and the definition is inherently a meaningless line in the sand. The small demand that there is for Assault Weapons just moves to other almost identical firearms that barely squeeze under the definition and are  basically identical in power anyway.
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Representative fhtagn
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« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2019, 04:21:47 pm »

An AWB would absolutely create a black market, and suggesting it wouldn't is silly. That's also operating under the assumption that people who already own one are willing to give them up, which you know they won't.

As I did say, from a GM perspective banning possession is certainly going to create problems with effective enforcement.
And on the AWB, America had an AWB for a decade from '94-'04 and there are AWBs in effect in 7 states and DC. The overwhelming weight of evidence is that AWBs are generally ineffective in actually reducing the rate of gun crime. Meanwhile there isn't much evidence of large black markets as assault weapons aren't particularly useful or effective to anyone who needs a gun.
If you ban Assault Weapons nothing happens because Assault Weapon ownership is pretty small and the definition is inherently a meaningless line in the sand. The small demand that there is for Assault Weapons just moves to other almost identical firearms that barely squeeze under the definition and are  basically identical in power anyway.

It's also worth noting that SNJC is incorrectly defining assault weapons under this bill as any semiautomatic firearm. Almost every modern gun in the hands of civilians is semiautomatic. You cannot possibly argue that is reasonable and can be enforced.
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AustralianSwingVoter
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« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2019, 04:54:20 pm »

An AWB would absolutely create a black market, and suggesting it wouldn't is silly. That's also operating under the assumption that people who already own one are willing to give them up, which you know they won't.

As I did say, from a GM perspective banning possession is certainly going to create problems with effective enforcement.
And on the AWB, America had an AWB for a decade from '94-'04 and there are AWBs in effect in 7 states and DC. The overwhelming weight of evidence is that AWBs are generally ineffective in actually reducing the rate of gun crime. Meanwhile there isn't much evidence of large black markets as assault weapons aren't particularly useful or effective to anyone who needs a gun.
If you ban Assault Weapons nothing happens because Assault Weapon ownership is pretty small and the definition is inherently a meaningless line in the sand. The small demand that there is for Assault Weapons just moves to other almost identical firearms that barely squeeze under the definition and are  basically identical in power anyway.

It's also worth noting that SNJC is incorrectly defining assault weapons under this bill as any semiautomatic firearm. Almost every modern gun in the hands of civilians is semiautomatic. You cannot possibly argue that is reasonable and can be enforced.

Yes the definition of assault weapons is pretty illogical. Basically all modern American consumer firearms would qualify as "Assault Weapons" under this legislation.
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Speaker OneJ
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« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2019, 12:33:33 am »

Do any councilmembers have anything to add?
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Chancellor S019
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« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2019, 08:14:55 am »

Iím sorry I was away, I had some real life things to do

An AWB would absolutely create a black market, and suggesting it wouldn't is silly. That's also operating under the assumption that people who already own one are willing to give them up, which you know they won't.

As I did say, from a GM perspective banning possession is certainly going to create problems with effective enforcement.
And on the AWB, America had an AWB for a decade from '94-'04 and there are AWBs in effect in 7 states and DC. The overwhelming weight of evidence is that AWBs are generally ineffective in actually reducing the rate of gun crime. Meanwhile there isn't much evidence of large black markets as assault weapons aren't particularly useful or effective to anyone who needs a gun.
If you ban Assault Weapons nothing happens because Assault Weapon ownership is pretty small and the definition is inherently a meaningless line in the sand. The small demand that there is for Assault Weapons just moves to other almost identical firearms that barely squeeze under the definition and are  basically identical in power anyway.

It's also worth noting that SNJC is incorrectly defining assault weapons under this bill as any semiautomatic firearm. Almost every modern gun in the hands of civilians is semiautomatic. You cannot possibly argue that is reasonable and can be enforced.

Yes the definition of assault weapons is pretty illogical. Basically all modern American consumer firearms would qualify as "Assault Weapons" under this legislation.


Incorrect, this bill specifies that assault weapons are only semiautomatic rifles, pistols, and shotguns, which can accept detachable magazines, as well as revolving cylindrical shotguns, and weapons that have a folding or collapsible stock, a bayonet lug, a threaded barrel, a grenade launcher, or a barrel shroud.

Either way, I donít have anything else to add and will motion for a final vote
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AustralianSwingVoter
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« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2019, 10:30:42 am »
« Edited: November 19, 2019, 11:05:01 am by AustralianSwingVoter »

It should also be noted that Section 4, the legal liabilities for gun manufacturers, is unenforceable due to the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act which was passed by RL congress before reset and hasn't been amended, repealed or superseded post-reset and so therefore almost certainly overrides ß4.

Edit, the resident legal scholar is in agreement.
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Chancellor S019
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« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2019, 06:44:04 pm »

Yeah, Section IV is probably something that cannot be done regionally, so I will object to the motion for a final vote, so that an amendment can quickly fix this minor issue.
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« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2019, 11:44:53 am »

Yeah, Section IV is probably something that cannot be done regionally, so I will object to the motion for a final vote, so that an amendment can quickly fix this minor issue.

Why amend something that has no chance of passing anyway?
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Speaker OneJ
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« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2019, 10:36:58 pm »

As none of the councilors have objected, a final vote on the objection has now opened.
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Chancellor S019
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« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2019, 07:34:26 am »

AYE
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Pragmatist_TNAG
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« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2019, 10:40:28 am »

Aye
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Speaker OneJ
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« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2019, 10:10:31 pm »

Aye.

The ayes have it and the objection has passed.
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Chancellor S019
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« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2019, 10:30:25 pm »

Proposing an amendment
Quote
Lincoln Assault Weapon and Automatic Weapon Ban Act

SECTION I: NAME

1. This bill may be cited as the Lincoln Assault Weapon and Automatic Weapon Ban Act.
2. This bill may, in short, be cited as the Lincoln Assault Weapon Ban Act.

SECTION II: ASSAULT WEAPON BAN

1. There shall be a regiowide ban on the purchasing, sale, or possession of assualt weapons, these weapons include semiautomatic rifles, pistols, and shotguns, which can accept detachable magazines, as well as revolving cylindrical shotguns.

2. Any weapon that is purchased, sold, or possessed may not have a folding or collapsible stock, a bayonet lug, a threaded barrel, a grenade launcher, or a barrel shroud.

SECTION III: AUTOMATIC WEAPON BAN

1. There shall be a ban on the purchasing, sale, or possession of fully automatic weapons, also known as Title II weapons under the National Firearms Act.

SECTION IV: LEGAL LIABILITIES FOR GUN MANUFACTURERS

1. Gun manufacturers may be sued if their weapons are used in violent crimes, by family members, close friends, and/or legal counsel of family members or close friends of gun violence victims.

2. Manufacturers may be sued for up to $15 million.

3. These cases will be be submitted to, heard, and ruled on by Lincoln's regional Justice.


SECTION V IV: GUN TAX

1. There shall be a 15% additional tax imposed on all shotguns

2. There shall be a 30% additional tax imposed on all handguns and pistols

3. There shall be a 50% additional tax imposed on all other firearms, that are legal to purchase, under this bill.

SECTION VI V: TIMING

1. This bill shall take effect, one week after being signed by the Governor.

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Pragmatist_TNAG
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« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2019, 01:05:09 pm »

Proposing an amendment
Quote
Lincoln Assault Weapon and Automatic Weapon Ban Act

SECTION I: NAME

1. This bill may be cited as the Lincoln Assault Weapon and Automatic Weapon Ban Act.
2. This bill may, in short, be cited as the Lincoln Assault Weapon Ban Act.

SECTION II: ASSAULT WEAPON BAN

1. There shall be a regiowide ban on the purchasing, sale, or possession of assualt weapons, these weapons include semiautomatic rifles, pistols, and shotguns, which can accept detachable magazines, as well as revolving cylindrical shotguns.

2. Any weapon that is purchased, sold, or possessed may not have a folding or collapsible stock, a bayonet lug, a threaded barrel, a grenade launcher, or a barrel shroud.

SECTION III: AUTOMATIC WEAPON BAN

1. There shall be a ban on the purchasing, sale, or possession of fully automatic weapons, also known as Title II weapons under the National Firearms Act.

SECTION IV: LEGAL LIABILITIES FOR GUN MANUFACTURERS

1. Gun manufacturers may be sued if their weapons are used in violent crimes, by family members, close friends, and/or legal counsel of family members or close friends of gun violence victims.

2. Manufacturers may be sued for up to $15 million.

3. These cases will be be submitted to, heard, and ruled on by Lincoln's regional Justice.


SECTION V IV: GUN TAX

1. There shall be a 15% additional tax imposed on all shotguns

2. There shall be a 30% additional tax imposed on all handguns and pistols

3. There shall be a 50% additional tax imposed on all other firearms, that are legal to purchase, under this bill.

SECTION VI V: TIMING

1. This bill shall take effect, one week after being signed by the Governor.


I support this amendment
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Speaker OneJ
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« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2019, 11:08:53 am »

Councilmembers have 48 hours to vote AYE, NAY, or ABSTAIN on the last amendment introduced by Chancellor S019.
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Chancellor S019
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« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2019, 12:19:26 pm »

AYE
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Pragmatist_TNAG
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« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2019, 03:53:28 pm »

Aye
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Speaker OneJ
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« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2019, 07:48:02 pm »

Aye.

The ayes have it and the amendment has passed.
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