What do you think of people who say "The economy...."?
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  What do you think of people who say "The economy...."?
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Author Topic: What do you think of people who say "The economy...."?  (Read 526 times)
Suburbia
bronz4141
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« on: November 13, 2019, 03:13:18 PM »

"The economy is doing well. My 401K is doing well"

"I think Trump's economy is booming"

I hear this from even middle class and downscale people in NJ.

Who are they, and do you think most Americans care about anything right now?
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GP270watch
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2019, 03:24:02 PM »

 George W. Bush voters said the same thing during points in his first term...
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Beefalow and the Consumer
Beef
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« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2019, 03:31:05 PM »

It is a statement of outrageous privilege and callousness. Never mind the fact that the 401k exists because defined benefit pension plans disappeared, leaving workers responsible for saving money themselves, and forcing them to assume the risks of the market.

I'm one of the privileged. I finished school in 2001, got into tech as we were recovering from the dot-com bust, dumped every penny I could spare into the stock market after the 2009 crash, and am sitting pretty at age 42 with a nice nest egg. The economy is working for me. For my friends 10 or 15 years younger, not so much.

Besides all that, other than a mild tax reform that might have done something, I can't see how our economic boom is Trump's doing. It's succeeding despite Trump's best attempts to sabotage it with trade wars. More than anything, the stock market boom is driven by investor enthusiasm about an environment of lower regulations (not good for most of us) and absurdly low interest rates (which hurts retirees, can lead to inflation, and removes the Fed's most important tool). If we go into a recession with interest rates as they are, we're in deep trouble.
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Non Swing Voter
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2019, 03:48:13 PM »

These are non-political people who should be taken seriously because they will decide the next election.  But Trump isn't doing that great even in this environment and he's pinned his hopes on the stock market and job market remaining strong.  If either goes down he's probably screwed against the vast majority of democratic candidates. 
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Bojack Horseman
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« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2019, 07:49:17 PM »

Most of them think unemployment was still in the double-digit range on January 19, 2017 and it magically changed the next day.
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Progressive Pessimist
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« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2019, 07:58:27 PM »

I say that the President's relation to the economy is actually way more tenuous than people realize. I said that about Obama too, before anyone accuses me of just being biased against Trump.

The economy is a large, complex system which consists of many different factors that affect it. A President and his policies can certainly affect it, don't get me wrong, but not in such a large magnitude.

So, to attribute the economy to Trump, or anyone else, somehow existing as President being related to it in a general sense as a reason to vote for them is pure poppycock Unless one can specifically link a policy of theirs, I guess. For instance, it's not that much of a stretch for a Michigan auto worker to have voted for Obama because of the GM bailout, or a CEO to want to re-elect Trump because of the tax bill. So, I suppose, that what it comes down to is that how one views the economy is more personal and subjective than one would think. I don't blame Presidents for trying to use macroeconomic data to their benefit though. Just as there are voters who will view a President negatively because of their economic situation, whether it is actually the President's fault or not; there will be others who are in a stable or improved position and also may attribute that to the President. And to further complicate things, people in between as bronz detailed.

For me personally, my family as a whole, was actually better off financially back during the recession than now, even as me and my sister have jobs now. But for most, the economy was a massive concern. At the same time though, for many that concern may still even exist. Economic data can't account for everyone and tell the same story.

Really when it comes down to it, American voters just simply don't understand what the President can and cannot do with their position, and a President or aspiring candidate for that office, would actually be foolish to undermine their own potential to be credited and praised for positive things that may not even be in their control. It's yet another vicious cycle that exists in our political system. That's a massive, and underrated problem for our national politics and in how we set expectations for our Presidents.
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Suburbia
bronz4141
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« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2019, 09:11:04 PM »

I say that the President's relation to the economy is actually way more tenuous than people realize. I said that about Obama too, before anyone accuses me of just being biased against Trump.

The economy is a large, complex system which consists of many different factors that affect it. A President and his policies can certainly affect it, don't get me wrong, but not in such a large magnitude.

So, to attribute the economy to Trump, or anyone else, somehow existing as President being related to it in a general sense as a reason to vote for them is pure poppycock Unless one can specifically link a policy of theirs, I guess. For instance, it's not that much of a stretch for a Michigan auto worker to have voted for Obama because of the GM bailout, or a CEO to want to re-elect Trump because of the tax bill. So, I suppose, that what it comes down to is that how one views the economy is more personal and subjective than one would think. I don't blame Presidents for trying to use macroeconomic data to their benefit though. Just as there are voters who will view a President negatively because of their economic situation, whether it is actually the President's fault or not; there will be others who are in a stable or improved position and also may attribute that to the President. And to further complicate things, people in between as bronz detailed.

For me personally, my family as a whole, was actually better off financially back during the recession than now, even as me and my sister have jobs now. But for most, the economy was a massive concern. At the same time though, for many that concern may still even exist. Economic data can't account for everyone and tell the same story.

Really when it comes down to it, American voters just simply don't understand what the President can and cannot do with their position, and a President or aspiring candidate for that office, would actually be foolish to undermine their own potential to be credited and praised for positive things that may not even be in their control. It's yet another vicious cycle that exists in our political system. That's a massive, and underrated problem for our national politics and in how we set expectations for our Presidents.
I guess how Gore should have benefited from Clinton's economy, but personality and superficial stuff dominated the 2000 presidential election.
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Higgins
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« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2019, 11:06:05 PM »

It is a statement of outrageous privilege and callousness. Never mind the fact that the 401k exists because defined benefit pension plans disappeared, leaving workers responsible for saving money themselves, and forcing them to assume the risks of the market.

I'm one of the privileged. I finished school in 2001, got into tech as we were recovering from the dot-com bust, dumped every penny I could spare into the stock market after the 2009 crash, and am sitting pretty at age 42 with a nice nest egg. The economy is working for me. For my friends 10 or 15 years younger, not so much.

Besides all that, other than a mild tax reform that might have done something, I can't see how our economic boom is Trump's doing. It's succeeding despite Trump's best attempts to sabotage it with trade wars. More than anything, the stock market boom is driven by investor enthusiasm about an environment of lower regulations (not good for most of us) and absurdly low interest rates (which hurts retirees, can lead to inflation, and removes the Fed's most important tool). If we go into a recession with interest rates as they are, we're in deep trouble.

You’re not privileged. You simply made wise financial decisions. It’s okay to not hate your white skin. It’s okay. You’re not a bad person if you don’t hate yourself and your race.
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Cashew
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« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2019, 11:15:34 PM »

It is a statement of outrageous privilege and callousness. Never mind the fact that the 401k exists because defined benefit pension plans disappeared, leaving workers responsible for saving money themselves, and forcing them to assume the risks of the market.

I'm one of the privileged. I finished school in 2001, got into tech as we were recovering from the dot-com bust, dumped every penny I could spare into the stock market after the 2009 crash, and am sitting pretty at age 42 with a nice nest egg. The economy is working for me. For my friends 10 or 15 years younger, not so much.

Besides all that, other than a mild tax reform that might have done something, I can't see how our economic boom is Trump's doing. It's succeeding despite Trump's best attempts to sabotage it with trade wars. More than anything, the stock market boom is driven by investor enthusiasm about an environment of lower regulations (not good for most of us) and absurdly low interest rates (which hurts retirees, can lead to inflation, and removes the Fed's most important tool). If we go into a recession with interest rates as they are, we're in deep trouble.

You’re not privileged. You simply made wise financial decisions. It’s okay to not hate your white skin. It’s okay. You’re not a bad person if you don’t hate yourself and your race.

Beef: I'm financially privileged.

Higgins: 14/88.
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TWTown
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« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2019, 11:44:10 PM »
« Edited: November 13, 2019, 11:53:36 PM by TWTown »

It is a statement of outrageous privilege and callousness. Never mind the fact that the 401k exists because defined benefit pension plans disappeared, leaving workers responsible for saving money themselves, and forcing them to assume the risks of the market.

I'm one of the privileged. I finished school in 2001, got into tech as we were recovering from the dot-com bust, dumped every penny I could spare into the stock market after the 2009 crash, and am sitting pretty at age 42 with a nice nest egg. The economy is working for me. For my friends 10 or 15 years younger, not so much.

Besides all that, other than a mild tax reform that might have done something, I can't see how our economic boom is Trump's doing. It's succeeding despite Trump's best attempts to sabotage it with trade wars. More than anything, the stock market boom is driven by investor enthusiasm about an environment of lower regulations (not good for most of us) and absurdly low interest rates (which hurts retirees, can lead to inflation, and removes the Fed's most important tool). If we go into a recession with interest rates as they are, we're in deep trouble.

You’re not privileged. You simply made wise financial decisions. It’s okay to not hate your white skin. It’s okay. You’re not a bad person if you don’t hate yourself and your race.

Did you not understand the post?
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T'Chenka
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« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2019, 11:59:48 PM »

A good chunk of these simpletons don't realize that they are paying less taxes on each paycheck, but in many cases pay all of those savings AND MORE in the increase in their annual income tax filings. They deserve to be conned, as far as I'm concerned.
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Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers
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« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2019, 05:51:28 AM »

We have had this discussion so many times. Blacks, Latinos and females get paid less on the dollar than white males. White males are the enterpreneurs, thus wages arent keeping up with housing costs. You have the working poor and underemployed, whom are working minimum wage jobs, who dont get a salary. Automation has taken over manufacturing and people have dropped out the Labor force.

The GDP rate is 1.9%, but in some places like the Midwest and Northwest, they have a 1.5% GDP rate; whereas, CA, AZ and the Sunbelt have a 3% GDP rate. The economy isnt rosy at all
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Beefalow and the Consumer
Beef
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« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2019, 09:31:54 AM »

It is a statement of outrageous privilege and callousness. Never mind the fact that the 401k exists because defined benefit pension plans disappeared, leaving workers responsible for saving money themselves, and forcing them to assume the risks of the market.

I'm one of the privileged. I finished school in 2001, got into tech as we were recovering from the dot-com bust, dumped every penny I could spare into the stock market after the 2009 crash, and am sitting pretty at age 42 with a nice nest egg. The economy is working for me. For my friends 10 or 15 years younger, not so much.

Besides all that, other than a mild tax reform that might have done something, I can't see how our economic boom is Trump's doing. It's succeeding despite Trump's best attempts to sabotage it with trade wars. More than anything, the stock market boom is driven by investor enthusiasm about an environment of lower regulations (not good for most of us) and absurdly low interest rates (which hurts retirees, can lead to inflation, and removes the Fed's most important tool). If we go into a recession with interest rates as they are, we're in deep trouble.

You’re not privileged. You simply made wise financial decisions. It’s okay to not hate your white skin. It’s okay. You’re not a bad person if you don’t hate yourself and your race.

Beef: I'm financially privileged.

Higgins: 14/88.

Thank you.

And not so much financially privileged as simply privileged to have been born before 1980. Younger people way smarter, way more diligent, and whiter than I am, are hurting in the clusterfork that is the new economy. Even when making all the right decisions.

Millennials are the first generation of Americans who don't expect a better life than their parents.
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World politics is up Schmitt creek
Nathan
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« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2019, 08:59:35 PM »

Beef hits the nail on the head in this thread. I'm one of those late-twentysomethings he's referring to and I couldn't have articulated the difference between pre-Great Recession and post-Great Recession standards for "a good economy" better myself.
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Higgins
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« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2019, 02:41:36 AM »

We have had this discussion so many times. Blacks, Latinos and females get paid less on the dollar than white males. White males are the enterpreneurs, thus wages arent keeping up with housing costs. You have the working poor and underemployed, whom are working minimum wage jobs, who dont get a salary. Automation has taken over manufacturing and people have dropped out the Labor force.

The GDP rate is 1.9%, but in some places like the Midwest and Northwest, they have a 1.5% GDP rate; whereas, CA, AZ and the Sunbelt have a 3% GDP rate. The economy isnt rosy at all

I’m one of those working poor you mention. Underemployed. I’m white. Having a hard time in life knows no color. Only Democrats do.
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Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers
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« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2019, 12:12:41 PM »

I mentioned working poor, including in my homestate Cali, entertainment industry is so focused on making black and Latinos celebs: sports, music and acting; as a result, they forget about making and producing American jobs and recycling and Green jobs for working poor, which are black and Latinos. Entertainment industry is based on China products Nike included. Trump said Hilary would be a Chinese Prez, he made no attempt to stop trade with China and create more American jobs.😖😖😖
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