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  Why Right Leaning Posters on this forum should not support Trump in 2020
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Author Topic: Why Right Leaning Posters on this forum should not support Trump in 2020  (Read 1803 times)
Old School Republican
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« on: December 08, 2019, 10:22:02 pm »

I get why you want to support Trump as even though I have been a Never Trumper from day 1, there have been many times I have considered leaving that Never Trump Train .

Yes I like many of his policies such as : Taxes  , Regulations, his economic policy in general, China, Judges and despise the direction the Democratic Party is going. So if I was just voting on policy, yes I would vote for Trump in 2020. So despite that I believe conservatives should not vote for Trump in 2020 and these are the reasons

1. His behavior has utterly disgraced the office of President of the United States in every way possible and now to add insult to injury over the past few months he has openly made it clear he believes he is above the law.

If you are a principled conservative that alone should disqualify them alone from getting your vote as that violates every basic conservative principle possible. Now if this isnt enough (which it should be) here is the political reason why you shouldnt support Trump in 2020


2. Imagine 2022 and 2024 in a Trump reelection

2022 and 2024 are very likely going to be bloodbaths for the GOP during Trump's 2nd term as there very likely will be a recession in that time period , Trump fatigue will be at all time levels. So if you are scared of a Democratic Presidency now imagine after 2024 when Dems win the Presidency in a 2008 style victory with massive majorities in Congress. That means with those majorities single-payer, massive tax hikes , amnesty etc will pass easily as unlike 2009-10 there are basically no blue dogs left and history has showsn when new programs are created its almost impossible to repeal them. Right now yes a Dem will win will move the nation to the left but they wont have the majoirty to pass the  far left agenda .

Oh and add Texas could be lost for the GOP in 2024 after 8 years of Trump which will throw the party wilderness for many years so tell me what has Trump done that will be worth all this. Now I am sure you would all agree that Bush winning a 2nd term in 2004 wasnt worth it


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Sen. Dean Heller
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« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2019, 10:30:50 pm »

I get why you want to support Trump as even though I have been a Never Trumper from day 1, there have been many times I have considered leaving that Never Trump Train .

Yes I like many of his policies such as : Taxes  , Regulations, his economic policy in general, China, Judges and despise the direction the Democratic Party is going. So if I was just voting on policy, yes I would vote for Trump in 2020. So despite that I believe conservatives should not vote for Trump in 2020 and these are the reasons

1. His behavior has utterly disgraced the office of President of the United States in every way possible and now to add insult to injury over the past few months he has openly made it clear he believes he is above the law.

If you are a principled conservative that alone should disqualify them alone from getting your vote as that violates every basic conservative principle possible. Now if this isnt enough (which it should be) here is the political reason why you shouldnt support Trump in 2020


2. Imagine 2022 and 2024 in a Trump reelection

2022 and 2024 are very likely going to be bloodbaths for the GOP during Trump's 2nd term as there very likely will be a recession in that time period , Trump fatigue will be at all time levels. So if you are scared of a Democratic Presidency now imagine after 2024 when Dems win the Presidency in a 2008 style victory with massive majorities in Congress. That means with those majorities single-payer, massive tax hikes , amnesty etc will pass easily as unlike 2009-10 there are basically no blue dogs left and history has showsn when new programs are created its almost impossible to repeal them. Right now yes a Dem will win will move the nation to the left but they wont have the majoirty to pass the  far left agenda .

Oh and add Texas could be lost for the GOP in 2024 after 8 years of Trump which will throw the party wilderness for many years so tell me what has Trump done that will be worth all this. Now I am sure you would all agree that Bush winning a 2nd term in 2004 wasnt worth it




1. Socialism is worse. Even Biden supports a public option, which would be another disastrous entitlement program, bankrupt many insurers and hospitals, and throw tons of people off their healthcare plans (healthcare becomes less of a perk when it can also be gotten free, so businesses would stop offering it). Plus, it'd put too many lives into the hands of government and expand the role of government too much. People fail to talk about this, but even Biden would raise taxes by a trillion + more than Clinton would have, and I didn't vote for her either.

2. Yes, and this is all a major worry to me. But he's the only credible choice for my values, so I'm sticking with him. Better dead than red isn't just a slogan.

3. It was worth it. Bush 04 was a good thing - it was what happened after that wasn't.
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« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2019, 10:33:26 pm »

Largely agree. Barring a Bloomberg nomination and Presidency, I do think a Biden win in 2020 followed by a DeSantis win in 2024 is the best win for Conservatism overall. The risks of Trump 2020 into AOC 2024 are near-apocalyptic.
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« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2019, 10:36:05 pm »

Largely agree. Barring a Bloomberg nomination and Presidency, I do think a Biden win in 2020 followed by a DeSantis win in 2024 is the best win for Conservatism overall. The risks of Trump 2020 into AOC 2024 are near-apocalyptic.

And this is why I will refuse to vote for Biden if he is the nominee.
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« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2019, 10:38:33 pm »

Largely agree. Barring a Bloomberg nomination and Presidency, I do think a Biden win in 2020 followed by a DeSantis win in 2024 is the best win for Conservatism overall. The risks of Trump 2020 into AOC 2024 are near-apocalyptic.

And this is why I will refuse to vote for Biden if he is the nominee.

Biden doesnt need Texas to win the General anyway. Just taking MI, PA , WI or AZ will do the job
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« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2019, 10:39:54 pm »

Largely agree. Barring a Bloomberg nomination and Presidency, I do think a Biden win in 2020 followed by a DeSantis win in 2024 is the best win for Conservatism overall. The risks of Trump 2020 into AOC 2024 are near-apocalyptic.

And this is why I will refuse to vote for Biden if he is the nominee.

Biden doesnt need Texas to win the General anyway. Just taking MI, PA , WI or AZ will do the job

That is not anywhere close to the point I was making. A Biden victory would be a Pyrrhic victory at best for Democrats and would almost definitely result in Republican blowouts in 2022 and 2024 with nothing to show for it other than getting Trump out of office.

A re-elected Trump is preferable to a useless one-term Biden presidency. The Supreme Court is already f—ked anyway, so there’s not much risk there
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« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2019, 10:42:11 pm »

I get why you want to support Trump as even though I have been a Never Trumper from day 1, there have been many times I have considered leaving that Never Trump Train .

Yes I like many of his policies such as : Taxes  , Regulations, his economic policy in general, China, Judges and despise the direction the Democratic Party is going. So if I was just voting on policy, yes I would vote for Trump in 2020. So despite that I believe conservatives should not vote for Trump in 2020 and these are the reasons

1. His behavior has utterly disgraced the office of President of the United States in every way possible and now to add insult to injury over the past few months he has openly made it clear he believes he is above the law.

If you are a principled conservative that alone should disqualify them alone from getting your vote as that violates every basic conservative principle possible. Now if this isnt enough (which it should be) here is the political reason why you shouldnt support Trump in 2020


2. Imagine 2022 and 2024 in a Trump reelection

2022 and 2024 are very likely going to be bloodbaths for the GOP during Trump's 2nd term as there very likely will be a recession in that time period , Trump fatigue will be at all time levels. So if you are scared of a Democratic Presidency now imagine after 2024 when Dems win the Presidency in a 2008 style victory with massive majorities in Congress. That means with those majorities single-payer, massive tax hikes , amnesty etc will pass easily as unlike 2009-10 there are basically no blue dogs left and history has showsn when new programs are created its almost impossible to repeal them. Right now yes a Dem will win will move the nation to the left but they wont have the majoirty to pass the  far left agenda .

Oh and add Texas could be lost for the GOP in 2024 after 8 years of Trump which will throw the party wilderness for many years so tell me what has Trump done that will be worth all this. Now I am sure you would all agree that Bush winning a 2nd term in 2004 wasnt worth it




1. Socialism is worse. Even Biden supports a public option, which would be another disastrous entitlement program, bankrupt many insurers and hospitals, and throw tons of people off their healthcare plans (healthcare becomes less of a perk when it can also be gotten free, so businesses would stop offering it). Plus, it'd put too many lives into the hands of government and expand the role of government too much. People fail to talk about this, but even Biden would raise taxes by a trillion + more than Clinton would have, and I didn't vote for her either.

2. Yes, and this is all a major worry to me. But he's the only credible choice for my values, so I'm sticking with him. Better dead than red isn't just a slogan.

3. It was worth it. Bush 04 was a good thing - it was what happened after that wasn't.


1. How will they get socialist agenda passed with 50-52 senators (assuming they take majoirty) , as there are more than 3 Dems that oppose repealing filibuster.

2. Sacrificing Long Term for Short Term is not worth it

3. How can you say that now, its not like Bush got anything done in term 2 anyway and left the GOP in shambles and may have begun the process of the total destruction of Neo-Liberalism. If Kerry won in 2004 he would have had to work with a GOP congress , then in 2008 either Romney or McCain sweep in with huge majoirties.
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« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2019, 10:44:06 pm »

Largely agree. Barring a Bloomberg nomination and Presidency, I do think a Biden win in 2020 followed by a DeSantis win in 2024 is the best win for Conservatism overall. The risks of Trump 2020 into AOC 2024 are near-apocalyptic.

And this is why I will refuse to vote for Biden if he is the nominee.

Biden doesnt need Texas to win the General anyway. Just taking MI, PA , WI or AZ will do the job

That is not anywhere close to the point I was making.

I know, Im just saying Biden doesnt really need your vote to win . If you lived in one of those 4 states well then you would risk Trump getting in again
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« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2019, 10:46:17 pm »

I get why you want to support Trump as even though I have been a Never Trumper from day 1, there have been many times I have considered leaving that Never Trump Train .

Yes I like many of his policies such as : Taxes  , Regulations, his economic policy in general, China, Judges and despise the direction the Democratic Party is going. So if I was just voting on policy, yes I would vote for Trump in 2020. So despite that I believe conservatives should not vote for Trump in 2020 and these are the reasons

1. His behavior has utterly disgraced the office of President of the United States in every way possible and now to add insult to injury over the past few months he has openly made it clear he believes he is above the law.

If you are a principled conservative that alone should disqualify them alone from getting your vote as that violates every basic conservative principle possible. Now if this isnt enough (which it should be) here is the political reason why you shouldnt support Trump in 2020


2. Imagine 2022 and 2024 in a Trump reelection

2022 and 2024 are very likely going to be bloodbaths for the GOP during Trump's 2nd term as there very likely will be a recession in that time period , Trump fatigue will be at all time levels. So if you are scared of a Democratic Presidency now imagine after 2024 when Dems win the Presidency in a 2008 style victory with massive majorities in Congress. That means with those majorities single-payer, massive tax hikes , amnesty etc will pass easily as unlike 2009-10 there are basically no blue dogs left and history has showsn when new programs are created its almost impossible to repeal them. Right now yes a Dem will win will move the nation to the left but they wont have the majoirty to pass the  far left agenda .

Oh and add Texas could be lost for the GOP in 2024 after 8 years of Trump which will throw the party wilderness for many years so tell me what has Trump done that will be worth all this. Now I am sure you would all agree that Bush winning a 2nd term in 2004 wasnt worth it




1. Socialism is worse. Even Biden supports a public option, which would be another disastrous entitlement program, bankrupt many insurers and hospitals, and throw tons of people off their healthcare plans (healthcare becomes less of a perk when it can also be gotten free, so businesses would stop offering it). Plus, it'd put too many lives into the hands of government and expand the role of government too much. People fail to talk about this, but even Biden would raise taxes by a trillion + more than Clinton would have, and I didn't vote for her either.

2. Yes, and this is all a major worry to me. But he's the only credible choice for my values, so I'm sticking with him. Better dead than red isn't just a slogan.

3. It was worth it. Bush 04 was a good thing - it was what happened after that wasn't.


1. How will they get socialist agenda passed with 50-52 senators (assuming they take majoirty) , as there are more than 3 Dems that oppose repealing filibuster.

2. Sacrificing Long Term for Short Term is not worth it

3. How can you say that now, its not like Bush got anything done in term 2 anyway and left the GOP in shambles and may have begun the process of the total destruction of Neo-Liberalism. If Kerry won in 2004 he would have had to work with a GOP congress , then in 2008 either Romney or McCain sweep in with huge majoirties.

1. EOs and the big regulatory state

2. Until the short term becomes the long term maybe. But it's incredibly hard to repeal an entitlement program - see Obamacare - and the odds are that if a public option was passed, we'd be stuck with it - forever.
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« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2019, 10:50:08 pm »

Largely agree. Barring a Bloomberg nomination and Presidency, I do think a Biden win in 2020 followed by a DeSantis win in 2024 is the best win for Conservatism overall. The risks of Trump 2020 into AOC 2024 are near-apocalyptic.

And this is why I will refuse to vote for Biden if he is the nominee.

Biden doesnt need Texas to win the General anyway. Just taking MI, PA , WI or AZ will do the job

That is not anywhere close to the point I was making.

I know, Im just saying Biden doesnt really need your vote to win . If you lived in one of those 4 states well then you would risk Trump getting in again

I know. If Biden is the nominee, I can only hope that he loses but keeps it close enough in the right places for Democrats to maintain their margin in the House and force both Georgia Senate seats to runoffs. A Collins retirement would also be a wonderful development.
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« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2019, 10:51:56 pm »

I get why you want to support Trump as even though I have been a Never Trumper from day 1, there have been many times I have considered leaving that Never Trump Train .

Yes I like many of his policies such as : Taxes  , Regulations, his economic policy in general, China, Judges and despise the direction the Democratic Party is going. So if I was just voting on policy, yes I would vote for Trump in 2020. So despite that I believe conservatives should not vote for Trump in 2020 and these are the reasons

1. His behavior has utterly disgraced the office of President of the United States in every way possible and now to add insult to injury over the past few months he has openly made it clear he believes he is above the law.

If you are a principled conservative that alone should disqualify them alone from getting your vote as that violates every basic conservative principle possible. Now if this isnt enough (which it should be) here is the political reason why you shouldnt support Trump in 2020


2. Imagine 2022 and 2024 in a Trump reelection

2022 and 2024 are very likely going to be bloodbaths for the GOP during Trump's 2nd term as there very likely will be a recession in that time period , Trump fatigue will be at all time levels. So if you are scared of a Democratic Presidency now imagine after 2024 when Dems win the Presidency in a 2008 style victory with massive majorities in Congress. That means with those majorities single-payer, massive tax hikes , amnesty etc will pass easily as unlike 2009-10 there are basically no blue dogs left and history has showsn when new programs are created its almost impossible to repeal them. Right now yes a Dem will win will move the nation to the left but they wont have the majoirty to pass the  far left agenda .

Oh and add Texas could be lost for the GOP in 2024 after 8 years of Trump which will throw the party wilderness for many years so tell me what has Trump done that will be worth all this. Now I am sure you would all agree that Bush winning a 2nd term in 2004 wasnt worth it




1. Socialism is worse. Even Biden supports a public option, which would be another disastrous entitlement program, bankrupt many insurers and hospitals, and throw tons of people off their healthcare plans (healthcare becomes less of a perk when it can also be gotten free, so businesses would stop offering it). Plus, it'd put too many lives into the hands of government and expand the role of government too much. People fail to talk about this, but even Biden would raise taxes by a trillion + more than Clinton would have, and I didn't vote for her either.

2. Yes, and this is all a major worry to me. But he's the only credible choice for my values, so I'm sticking with him. Better dead than red isn't just a slogan.

3. It was worth it. Bush 04 was a good thing - it was what happened after that wasn't.


1. How will they get socialist agenda passed with 50-52 senators (assuming they take majoirty) , as there are more than 3 Dems that oppose repealing filibuster.

2. Sacrificing Long Term for Short Term is not worth it

3. How can you say that now, its not like Bush got anything done in term 2 anyway and left the GOP in shambles and may have begun the process of the total destruction of Neo-Liberalism. If Kerry won in 2004 he would have had to work with a GOP congress , then in 2008 either Romney or McCain sweep in with huge majoirties.

1. EOs and the big regulatory state

2. Until the short term becomes the long term maybe. But it's incredibly hard to repeal an entitlement program - see Obamacare - and the odds are that if a public option was passed, we'd be stuck with it - forever.

1. Which can basically be reversed with a stroke of a Pen like Trump has done and Obama did to much of Bush's EO's. Same with regulations

2. Public Option> Single Payer and if Trump wins in 2020 , then dems will very likely have majorities to pass single payer in 2025. Its not a great choice but Trump's and the GOP massive failure on healthcare in 2017 is the reason why that is the remaining choice . Also with a small majority I think really the only things will pass on healthcare: are the restoration of Obamacare Mandate, price controls for prescription drugs, and expansion of Medicaid.

On taxes no way such a large tax increase passes with that small majority other than just raising corporate tax from 20%-28% which would still be lower than the Pre 2017 rates.
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« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2019, 10:56:02 pm »

I get why you want to support Trump as even though I have been a Never Trumper from day 1, there have been many times I have considered leaving that Never Trump Train .

Yes I like many of his policies such as : Taxes  , Regulations, his economic policy in general, China, Judges and despise the direction the Democratic Party is going. So if I was just voting on policy, yes I would vote for Trump in 2020. So despite that I believe conservatives should not vote for Trump in 2020 and these are the reasons

1. His behavior has utterly disgraced the office of President of the United States in every way possible and now to add insult to injury over the past few months he has openly made it clear he believes he is above the law.

If you are a principled conservative that alone should disqualify them alone from getting your vote as that violates every basic conservative principle possible. Now if this isnt enough (which it should be) here is the political reason why you shouldnt support Trump in 2020


2. Imagine 2022 and 2024 in a Trump reelection

2022 and 2024 are very likely going to be bloodbaths for the GOP during Trump's 2nd term as there very likely will be a recession in that time period , Trump fatigue will be at all time levels. So if you are scared of a Democratic Presidency now imagine after 2024 when Dems win the Presidency in a 2008 style victory with massive majorities in Congress. That means with those majorities single-payer, massive tax hikes , amnesty etc will pass easily as unlike 2009-10 there are basically no blue dogs left and history has showsn when new programs are created its almost impossible to repeal them. Right now yes a Dem will win will move the nation to the left but they wont have the majoirty to pass the  far left agenda .

Oh and add Texas could be lost for the GOP in 2024 after 8 years of Trump which will throw the party wilderness for many years so tell me what has Trump done that will be worth all this. Now I am sure you would all agree that Bush winning a 2nd term in 2004 wasnt worth it




1. Socialism is worse. Even Biden supports a public option, which would be another disastrous entitlement program, bankrupt many insurers and hospitals, and throw tons of people off their healthcare plans (healthcare becomes less of a perk when it can also be gotten free, so businesses would stop offering it). Plus, it'd put too many lives into the hands of government and expand the role of government too much. People fail to talk about this, but even Biden would raise taxes by a trillion + more than Clinton would have, and I didn't vote for her either.

2. Yes, and this is all a major worry to me. But he's the only credible choice for my values, so I'm sticking with him. Better dead than red isn't just a slogan.

3. It was worth it. Bush 04 was a good thing - it was what happened after that wasn't.
Literally sums up everything wrong with you guys. So “socialism”  and “entitlement” is a fundamental threat to democracy but Trump undermining the rule of law along with checks and balances isn’t? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? Practically ever other western democracy from Canada, Britain, France, Germany, and the Scandinavias elect socialists into power all the time along with having a bigger nanny state then us and they are mostly healthy democracies. The idea that mainstream liberal positions on healthcare and welfare you think is more dangerous than Trump’s conduct shows how off the spectrum your ideological movement has gone
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« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2019, 10:57:23 pm »

I get why you want to support Trump as even though I have been a Never Trumper from day 1, there have been many times I have considered leaving that Never Trump Train .

Yes I like many of his policies such as : Taxes  , Regulations, his economic policy in general, China, Judges and despise the direction the Democratic Party is going. So if I was just voting on policy, yes I would vote for Trump in 2020. So despite that I believe conservatives should not vote for Trump in 2020 and these are the reasons

1. His behavior has utterly disgraced the office of President of the United States in every way possible and now to add insult to injury over the past few months he has openly made it clear he believes he is above the law.

If you are a principled conservative that alone should disqualify them alone from getting your vote as that violates every basic conservative principle possible. Now if this isnt enough (which it should be) here is the political reason why you shouldnt support Trump in 2020


2. Imagine 2022 and 2024 in a Trump reelection

2022 and 2024 are very likely going to be bloodbaths for the GOP during Trump's 2nd term as there very likely will be a recession in that time period , Trump fatigue will be at all time levels. So if you are scared of a Democratic Presidency now imagine after 2024 when Dems win the Presidency in a 2008 style victory with massive majorities in Congress. That means with those majorities single-payer, massive tax hikes , amnesty etc will pass easily as unlike 2009-10 there are basically no blue dogs left and history has showsn when new programs are created its almost impossible to repeal them. Right now yes a Dem will win will move the nation to the left but they wont have the majoirty to pass the  far left agenda .

Oh and add Texas could be lost for the GOP in 2024 after 8 years of Trump which will throw the party wilderness for many years so tell me what has Trump done that will be worth all this. Now I am sure you would all agree that Bush winning a 2nd term in 2004 wasnt worth it




1. Socialism is worse. Even Biden supports a public option, which would be another disastrous entitlement program, bankrupt many insurers and hospitals, and throw tons of people off their healthcare plans (healthcare becomes less of a perk when it can also be gotten free, so businesses would stop offering it). Plus, it'd put too many lives into the hands of government and expand the role of government too much. People fail to talk about this, but even Biden would raise taxes by a trillion + more than Clinton would have, and I didn't vote for her either.

2. Yes, and this is all a major worry to me. But he's the only credible choice for my values, so I'm sticking with him. Better dead than red isn't just a slogan.

3. It was worth it. Bush 04 was a good thing - it was what happened after that wasn't.


1. How will they get socialist agenda passed with 50-52 senators (assuming they take majoirty) , as there are more than 3 Dems that oppose repealing filibuster.

2. Sacrificing Long Term for Short Term is not worth it

3. How can you say that now, its not like Bush got anything done in term 2 anyway and left the GOP in shambles and may have begun the process of the total destruction of Neo-Liberalism. If Kerry won in 2004 he would have had to work with a GOP congress , then in 2008 either Romney or McCain sweep in with huge majoirties.

1. EOs and the big regulatory state

2. Until the short term becomes the long term maybe. But it's incredibly hard to repeal an entitlement program - see Obamacare - and the odds are that if a public option was passed, we'd be stuck with it - forever.

1. Which can basically be reversed with a stroke of a Pen like Trump has done and Obama did to much of Bush's EO's. Same with regulations

2. Public Option> Single Payer and if Trump wins in 2020 , then dems will very likely have majorities to pass single payer in 2025. Its not a great choice but Trump's and the GOP massive failure on healthcare in 2017 is the reason why that is the remaining choice . Also with a small majority I think really the only things will pass on healthcare: are the restoration of Obamacare Mandate, price controls for prescription drugs, and expansion of Medicaid.

On taxes no way such a large tax increase passes with that small majority other than just raising corporate tax from 20%-28% which would still be lower than the Pre 2017 rates.
Conceding the battles of today so we can win the battles of tomorrow is stupid, because it'll just make them stronger and more aggressive for them. Plus, we can't truly ever predict the future, even if we can place odds on it. Who knows how the next few years will turn out? Who would have predicted in 2012 that Donald Trump would be President today?
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« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2019, 10:58:53 pm »

I get why you want to support Trump as even though I have been a Never Trumper from day 1, there have been many times I have considered leaving that Never Trump Train .

Yes I like many of his policies such as : Taxes  , Regulations, his economic policy in general, China, Judges and despise the direction the Democratic Party is going. So if I was just voting on policy, yes I would vote for Trump in 2020. So despite that I believe conservatives should not vote for Trump in 2020 and these are the reasons

1. His behavior has utterly disgraced the office of President of the United States in every way possible and now to add insult to injury over the past few months he has openly made it clear he believes he is above the law.

If you are a principled conservative that alone should disqualify them alone from getting your vote as that violates every basic conservative principle possible. Now if this isnt enough (which it should be) here is the political reason why you shouldnt support Trump in 2020


2. Imagine 2022 and 2024 in a Trump reelection

2022 and 2024 are very likely going to be bloodbaths for the GOP during Trump's 2nd term as there very likely will be a recession in that time period , Trump fatigue will be at all time levels. So if you are scared of a Democratic Presidency now imagine after 2024 when Dems win the Presidency in a 2008 style victory with massive majorities in Congress. That means with those majorities single-payer, massive tax hikes , amnesty etc will pass easily as unlike 2009-10 there are basically no blue dogs left and history has showsn when new programs are created its almost impossible to repeal them. Right now yes a Dem will win will move the nation to the left but they wont have the majoirty to pass the  far left agenda .

Oh and add Texas could be lost for the GOP in 2024 after 8 years of Trump which will throw the party wilderness for many years so tell me what has Trump done that will be worth all this. Now I am sure you would all agree that Bush winning a 2nd term in 2004 wasnt worth it




1. Socialism is worse. Even Biden supports a public option, which would be another disastrous entitlement program, bankrupt many insurers and hospitals, and throw tons of people off their healthcare plans (healthcare becomes less of a perk when it can also be gotten free, so businesses would stop offering it). Plus, it'd put too many lives into the hands of government and expand the role of government too much. People fail to talk about this, but even Biden would raise taxes by a trillion + more than Clinton would have, and I didn't vote for her either.

2. Yes, and this is all a major worry to me. But he's the only credible choice for my values, so I'm sticking with him. Better dead than red isn't just a slogan.

3. It was worth it. Bush 04 was a good thing - it was what happened after that wasn't.


1. How will they get socialist agenda passed with 50-52 senators (assuming they take majoirty) , as there are more than 3 Dems that oppose repealing filibuster.

2. Sacrificing Long Term for Short Term is not worth it

3. How can you say that now, its not like Bush got anything done in term 2 anyway and left the GOP in shambles and may have begun the process of the total destruction of Neo-Liberalism. If Kerry won in 2004 he would have had to work with a GOP congress , then in 2008 either Romney or McCain sweep in with huge majoirties.

1. EOs and the big regulatory state

2. Until the short term becomes the long term maybe. But it's incredibly hard to repeal an entitlement program - see Obamacare - and the odds are that if a public option was passed, we'd be stuck with it - forever.

1. Which can basically be reversed with a stroke of a Pen like Trump has done and Obama did to much of Bush's EO's. Same with regulations

2. Public Option> Single Payer and if Trump wins in 2020 , then dems will very likely have majorities to pass single payer in 2025. Its not a great choice but Trump's and the GOP massive failure on healthcare in 2017 is the reason why that is the remaining choice . Also with a small majority I think really the only things will pass on healthcare: are the restoration of Obamacare Mandate, price controls for prescription drugs, and expansion of Medicaid.

On taxes no way such a large tax increase passes with that small majority other than just raising corporate tax from 20%-28% which would still be lower than the Pre 2017 rates.
Conceding the battles of today so we can win the battles of tomorrow is stupid, because it'll just make them stronger and more aggressive for them. Plus, we can't truly ever predict the future, even if we can place odds on it. Who knows how the next few years will turn out? Who would have predicted in 2012 that Donald Trump would be President today?

No but I would have Predicted a Republican Trifecta after 2016
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Sen. Dean Heller
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« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2019, 10:59:45 pm »
« Edited: December 08, 2019, 11:02:51 pm by Sen. Dean Heller »

I get why you want to support Trump as even though I have been a Never Trumper from day 1, there have been many times I have considered leaving that Never Trump Train .

Yes I like many of his policies such as : Taxes  , Regulations, his economic policy in general, China, Judges and despise the direction the Democratic Party is going. So if I was just voting on policy, yes I would vote for Trump in 2020. So despite that I believe conservatives should not vote for Trump in 2020 and these are the reasons

1. His behavior has utterly disgraced the office of President of the United States in every way possible and now to add insult to injury over the past few months he has openly made it clear he believes he is above the law.

If you are a principled conservative that alone should disqualify them alone from getting your vote as that violates every basic conservative principle possible. Now if this isnt enough (which it should be) here is the political reason why you shouldnt support Trump in 2020


2. Imagine 2022 and 2024 in a Trump reelection

2022 and 2024 are very likely going to be bloodbaths for the GOP during Trump's 2nd term as there very likely will be a recession in that time period , Trump fatigue will be at all time levels. So if you are scared of a Democratic Presidency now imagine after 2024 when Dems win the Presidency in a 2008 style victory with massive majorities in Congress. That means with those majorities single-payer, massive tax hikes , amnesty etc will pass easily as unlike 2009-10 there are basically no blue dogs left and history has showsn when new programs are created its almost impossible to repeal them. Right now yes a Dem will win will move the nation to the left but they wont have the majoirty to pass the  far left agenda .

Oh and add Texas could be lost for the GOP in 2024 after 8 years of Trump which will throw the party wilderness for many years so tell me what has Trump done that will be worth all this. Now I am sure you would all agree that Bush winning a 2nd term in 2004 wasnt worth it




1. Socialism is worse. Even Biden supports a public option, which would be another disastrous entitlement program, bankrupt many insurers and hospitals, and throw tons of people off their healthcare plans (healthcare becomes less of a perk when it can also be gotten free, so businesses would stop offering it). Plus, it'd put too many lives into the hands of government and expand the role of government too much. People fail to talk about this, but even Biden would raise taxes by a trillion + more than Clinton would have, and I didn't vote for her either.

2. Yes, and this is all a major worry to me. But he's the only credible choice for my values, so I'm sticking with him. Better dead than red isn't just a slogan.

3. It was worth it. Bush 04 was a good thing - it was what happened after that wasn't.
Literally sums up everything wrong with you guys. So “socialism”  and “entitlement” is a fundamental threat to democracy but Trump undermining the rule of law along with checks and balances isn’t? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? Practically ever other western democracy from Canada, Britain, France, Germany, and the Scandinavias elect socialists into power all the time along with having a bigger nanny state then us and they are mostly healthy democracies. The idea that mainstream liberal positions on healthcare and welfare you think is more dangerous than Trump’s conduct shows how off the spectrum your ideological movement has gone

It's a much bigger one, and yes. As Alex Tocqueville once said, America will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe us with our own money. And besides, the fact that I wouldn't want Trump to babysit my family won't ever justify robbing those who work hard to pay for the takers and gimmes of this world.
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Hindsight is 2020
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« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2019, 11:14:10 pm »

I get why you want to support Trump as even though I have been a Never Trumper from day 1, there have been many times I have considered leaving that Never Trump Train .

Yes I like many of his policies such as : Taxes  , Regulations, his economic policy in general, China, Judges and despise the direction the Democratic Party is going. So if I was just voting on policy, yes I would vote for Trump in 2020. So despite that I believe conservatives should not vote for Trump in 2020 and these are the reasons

1. His behavior has utterly disgraced the office of President of the United States in every way possible and now to add insult to injury over the past few months he has openly made it clear he believes he is above the law.

If you are a principled conservative that alone should disqualify them alone from getting your vote as that violates every basic conservative principle possible. Now if this isnt enough (which it should be) here is the political reason why you shouldnt support Trump in 2020


2. Imagine 2022 and 2024 in a Trump reelection

2022 and 2024 are very likely going to be bloodbaths for the GOP during Trump's 2nd term as there very likely will be a recession in that time period , Trump fatigue will be at all time levels. So if you are scared of a Democratic Presidency now imagine after 2024 when Dems win the Presidency in a 2008 style victory with massive majorities in Congress. That means with those majorities single-payer, massive tax hikes , amnesty etc will pass easily as unlike 2009-10 there are basically no blue dogs left and history has showsn when new programs are created its almost impossible to repeal them. Right now yes a Dem will win will move the nation to the left but they wont have the majoirty to pass the  far left agenda .

Oh and add Texas could be lost for the GOP in 2024 after 8 years of Trump which will throw the party wilderness for many years so tell me what has Trump done that will be worth all this. Now I am sure you would all agree that Bush winning a 2nd term in 2004 wasnt worth it




1. Socialism is worse. Even Biden supports a public option, which would be another disastrous entitlement program, bankrupt many insurers and hospitals, and throw tons of people off their healthcare plans (healthcare becomes less of a perk when it can also be gotten free, so businesses would stop offering it). Plus, it'd put too many lives into the hands of government and expand the role of government too much. People fail to talk about this, but even Biden would raise taxes by a trillion + more than Clinton would have, and I didn't vote for her either.

2. Yes, and this is all a major worry to me. But he's the only credible choice for my values, so I'm sticking with him. Better dead than red isn't just a slogan.

3. It was worth it. Bush 04 was a good thing - it was what happened after that wasn't.
Literally sums up everything wrong with you guys. So “socialism”  and “entitlement” is a fundamental threat to democracy but Trump undermining the rule of law along with checks and balances isn’t? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? Practically ever other western democracy from Canada, Britain, France, Germany, and the Scandinavias elect socialists into power all the time along with having a bigger nanny state then us and they are mostly healthy democracies. The idea that mainstream liberal positions on healthcare and welfare you think is more dangerous than Trump’s conduct shows how off the spectrum your ideological movement has gone

It's a much bigger one, and yes. As Alex Tocqueville once said, America will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe us with our own money. And besides, the fact that I wouldn't want Trump to babysit my family won't ever justify robbing those who work hard to pay for the takers and gimmes of this world.
Again that’s ridiculous. The rest of the Western world has completely debunked your insane notions. Also that last sentence is just a good reminder of what Scrounges your party 
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Forumlurker161
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« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2019, 11:17:55 pm »

I get why you want to support Trump as even though I have been a Never Trumper from day 1, there have been many times I have considered leaving that Never Trump Train .

Yes I like many of his policies such as : Taxes  , Regulations, his economic policy in general, China, Judges and despise the direction the Democratic Party is going. So if I was just voting on policy, yes I would vote for Trump in 2020. So despite that I believe conservatives should not vote for Trump in 2020 and these are the reasons

1. His behavior has utterly disgraced the office of President of the United States in every way possible and now to add insult to injury over the past few months he has openly made it clear he believes he is above the law.

If you are a principled conservative that alone should disqualify them alone from getting your vote as that violates every basic conservative principle possible. Now if this isnt enough (which it should be) here is the political reason why you shouldnt support Trump in 2020


2. Imagine 2022 and 2024 in a Trump reelection

2022 and 2024 are very likely going to be bloodbaths for the GOP during Trump's 2nd term as there very likely will be a recession in that time period , Trump fatigue will be at all time levels. So if you are scared of a Democratic Presidency now imagine after 2024 when Dems win the Presidency in a 2008 style victory with massive majorities in Congress. That means with those majorities single-payer, massive tax hikes , amnesty etc will pass easily as unlike 2009-10 there are basically no blue dogs left and history has showsn when new programs are created its almost impossible to repeal them. Right now yes a Dem will win will move the nation to the left but they wont have the majoirty to pass the  far left agenda .

Oh and add Texas could be lost for the GOP in 2024 after 8 years of Trump which will throw the party wilderness for many years so tell me what has Trump done that will be worth all this. Now I am sure you would all agree that Bush winning a 2nd term in 2004 wasnt worth it




1. Socialism is worse. Even Biden supports a public option, which would be another disastrous entitlement program, bankrupt many insurers and hospitals, and throw tons of people off their healthcare plans (healthcare becomes less of a perk when it can also be gotten free, so businesses would stop offering it). Plus, it'd put too many lives into the hands of government and expand the role of government too much. People fail to talk about this, but even Biden would raise taxes by a trillion + more than Clinton would have, and I didn't vote for her either.

2. Yes, and this is all a major worry to me. But he's the only credible choice for my values, so I'm sticking with him. Better dead than red isn't just a slogan.

3. It was worth it. Bush 04 was a good thing - it was what happened after that wasn't.
Literally sums up everything wrong with you guys. So “socialism”  and “entitlement” is a fundamental threat to democracy but Trump undermining the rule of law along with checks and balances isn’t? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? Practically ever other western democracy from Canada, Britain, France, Germany, and the Scandinavias elect socialists into power all the time along with having a bigger nanny state then us and they are mostly healthy democracies. The idea that mainstream liberal positions on healthcare and welfare you think is more dangerous than Trump’s conduct shows how off the spectrum your ideological movement has gone

It's a much bigger one, and yes. As Alex Tocqueville once said, America will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe us with our own money. And besides, the fact that I wouldn't want Trump to babysit my family won't ever justify robbing those who work hard to pay for the takers and gimmes of this world.
Have you ever heard of the boy who cried wolf?
Someday an actual socialist will run for president and no one will believe you all after years of fake-scares.
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Xing
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« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2019, 11:21:41 pm »

People only tend to care about a candidate's demeanor when they don't like said candidate. Otherwise, it's just a "distraction." And I really don't think most partisan voters are interested in conceding one election to do better in the next. There were Democrats saying that it was a good thing that 2014 was so bad for Democrats, since it meant 2016 had to be better for them. And then every two years since then, at least someone has talked about conceding the current election in order to do better in the next cycle. It's not a good strategy.

And Republicans shouldn't assume that a Democratic President means a Republican wave in 2022 similar to 2010. Sure, it might happen, but it could end up only being a somewhat good year for Republicans. Either way, the 2022 Senate map isn't exactly great for Republicans, since the best they could hope for would be R+1 or maybe R+2, so if Democrats have the Senate, it's not even a given that they can take it back that year. While Democrats could take the Senate in 2022 with Trump as President, it's not going to be a slam dunk if they only have 46-47 seats, instead of 48-49.
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Sen. Dean Heller
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« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2019, 12:53:14 am »

I get why you want to support Trump as even though I have been a Never Trumper from day 1, there have been many times I have considered leaving that Never Trump Train .

Yes I like many of his policies such as : Taxes  , Regulations, his economic policy in general, China, Judges and despise the direction the Democratic Party is going. So if I was just voting on policy, yes I would vote for Trump in 2020. So despite that I believe conservatives should not vote for Trump in 2020 and these are the reasons

1. His behavior has utterly disgraced the office of President of the United States in every way possible and now to add insult to injury over the past few months he has openly made it clear he believes he is above the law.

If you are a principled conservative that alone should disqualify them alone from getting your vote as that violates every basic conservative principle possible. Now if this isnt enough (which it should be) here is the political reason why you shouldnt support Trump in 2020


2. Imagine 2022 and 2024 in a Trump reelection

2022 and 2024 are very likely going to be bloodbaths for the GOP during Trump's 2nd term as there very likely will be a recession in that time period , Trump fatigue will be at all time levels. So if you are scared of a Democratic Presidency now imagine after 2024 when Dems win the Presidency in a 2008 style victory with massive majorities in Congress. That means with those majorities single-payer, massive tax hikes , amnesty etc will pass easily as unlike 2009-10 there are basically no blue dogs left and history has showsn when new programs are created its almost impossible to repeal them. Right now yes a Dem will win will move the nation to the left but they wont have the majoirty to pass the  far left agenda .

Oh and add Texas could be lost for the GOP in 2024 after 8 years of Trump which will throw the party wilderness for many years so tell me what has Trump done that will be worth all this. Now I am sure you would all agree that Bush winning a 2nd term in 2004 wasnt worth it




1. Socialism is worse. Even Biden supports a public option, which would be another disastrous entitlement program, bankrupt many insurers and hospitals, and throw tons of people off their healthcare plans (healthcare becomes less of a perk when it can also be gotten free, so businesses would stop offering it). Plus, it'd put too many lives into the hands of government and expand the role of government too much. People fail to talk about this, but even Biden would raise taxes by a trillion + more than Clinton would have, and I didn't vote for her either.

2. Yes, and this is all a major worry to me. But he's the only credible choice for my values, so I'm sticking with him. Better dead than red isn't just a slogan.

3. It was worth it. Bush 04 was a good thing - it was what happened after that wasn't.
Literally sums up everything wrong with you guys. So “socialism”  and “entitlement” is a fundamental threat to democracy but Trump undermining the rule of law along with checks and balances isn’t? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? Practically ever other western democracy from Canada, Britain, France, Germany, and the Scandinavias elect socialists into power all the time along with having a bigger nanny state then us and they are mostly healthy democracies. The idea that mainstream liberal positions on healthcare and welfare you think is more dangerous than Trump’s conduct shows how off the spectrum your ideological movement has gone

It's a much bigger one, and yes. As Alex Tocqueville once said, America will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe us with our own money. And besides, the fact that I wouldn't want Trump to babysit my family won't ever justify robbing those who work hard to pay for the takers and gimmes of this world.
Have you ever heard of the boy who cried wolf?
Someday an actual socialist will run for president and no one will believe you all after years of fake-scares.

Literally Bernie.
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Forumlurker161
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« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2019, 01:17:06 am »
« Edited: December 09, 2019, 01:21:08 am by Forumlurker161 »

I get why you want to support Trump as even though I have been a Never Trumper from day 1, there have been many times I have considered leaving that Never Trump Train .

Yes I like many of his policies such as : Taxes  , Regulations, his economic policy in general, China, Judges and despise the direction the Democratic Party is going. So if I was just voting on policy, yes I would vote for Trump in 2020. So despite that I believe conservatives should not vote for Trump in 2020 and these are the reasons

1. His behavior has utterly disgraced the office of President of the United States in every way possible and now to add insult to injury over the past few months he has openly made it clear he believes he is above the law.

If you are a principled conservative that alone should disqualify them alone from getting your vote as that violates every basic conservative principle possible. Now if this isnt enough (which it should be) here is the political reason why you shouldnt support Trump in 2020


2. Imagine 2022 and 2024 in a Trump reelection

2022 and 2024 are very likely going to be bloodbaths for the GOP during Trump's 2nd term as there very likely will be a recession in that time period , Trump fatigue will be at all time levels. So if you are scared of a Democratic Presidency now imagine after 2024 when Dems win the Presidency in a 2008 style victory with massive majorities in Congress. That means with those majorities single-payer, massive tax hikes , amnesty etc will pass easily as unlike 2009-10 there are basically no blue dogs left and history has showsn when new programs are created its almost impossible to repeal them. Right now yes a Dem will win will move the nation to the left but they wont have the majoirty to pass the  far left agenda .

Oh and add Texas could be lost for the GOP in 2024 after 8 years of Trump which will throw the party wilderness for many years so tell me what has Trump done that will be worth all this. Now I am sure you would all agree that Bush winning a 2nd term in 2004 wasnt worth it




1. Socialism is worse. Even Biden supports a public option, which would be another disastrous entitlement program, bankrupt many insurers and hospitals, and throw tons of people off their healthcare plans (healthcare becomes less of a perk when it can also be gotten free, so businesses would stop offering it). Plus, it'd put too many lives into the hands of government and expand the role of government too much. People fail to talk about this, but even Biden would raise taxes by a trillion + more than Clinton would have, and I didn't vote for her either.

2. Yes, and this is all a major worry to me. But he's the only credible choice for my values, so I'm sticking with him. Better dead than red isn't just a slogan.

3. It was worth it. Bush 04 was a good thing - it was what happened after that wasn't.
Literally sums up everything wrong with you guys. So “socialism”  and “entitlement” is a fundamental threat to democracy but Trump undermining the rule of law along with checks and balances isn’t? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? Practically ever other western democracy from Canada, Britain, France, Germany, and the Scandinavias elect socialists into power all the time along with having a bigger nanny state then us and they are mostly healthy democracies. The idea that mainstream liberal positions on healthcare and welfare you think is more dangerous than Trump’s conduct shows how off the spectrum your ideological movement has gone

It's a much bigger one, and yes. As Alex Tocqueville once said, America will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe us with our own money. And besides, the fact that I wouldn't want Trump to babysit my family won't ever justify robbing those who work hard to pay for the takers and gimmes of this world.
Have you ever heard of the boy who cried wolf?
Someday an actual socialist will run for president and no one will believe you all after years of fake-scares.

Literally Bernie.
He’s not a socialist, he is a socdem in all but name with a cult following (some of whom probably are actually socialists). You don’t have to like him, or vote for him, but know the differences.
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GeneralMacArthur
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« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2019, 01:25:09 am »

1. Socialism is worse. Even Biden supports a public option, which would be another disastrous entitlement program, bankrupt many insurers and hospitals, and throw tons of people off their healthcare plans (healthcare becomes less of a perk when it can also be gotten free, so businesses would stop offering it). Plus, it'd put too many lives into the hands of government and expand the role of government too much. People fail to talk about this, but even Biden would raise taxes by a trillion + more than Clinton would have, and I didn't vote for her either.

You're just making stuff up about Biden here.  Biden is not proposing to raise taxes by even as much as Clinton was, much less 1 trillion more than Clinton.  Meanwhile, a public option is not an entitlement, you are confusing it with single payer when they are two extremely different things.  People have to pay for the public option.
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Pericles
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« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2019, 01:39:23 am »

1. Socialism is worse. Even Biden supports a public option, which would be another disastrous entitlement program, bankrupt many insurers and hospitals, and throw tons of people off their healthcare plans (healthcare becomes less of a perk when it can also be gotten free, so businesses would stop offering it). Plus, it'd put too many lives into the hands of government and expand the role of government too much. People fail to talk about this, but even Biden would raise taxes by a trillion + more than Clinton would have, and I didn't vote for her either.

You're just making stuff up about Biden here.  Biden is not proposing to raise taxes by even as much as Clinton was, much less 1 trillion more than Clinton.  Meanwhile, a public option is not an entitlement, you are confusing it with single payer when they are two extremely different things.  People have to pay for the public option.

Is this true? That's messed up, and goes to show how unserious Biden is about tackling inequality and the deep social problems the US faces.
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TrendsareUsuallyReal
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« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2019, 01:41:15 am »

1. Socialism is worse. Even Biden supports a public option, which would be another disastrous entitlement program, bankrupt many insurers and hospitals, and throw tons of people off their healthcare plans (healthcare becomes less of a perk when it can also be gotten free, so businesses would stop offering it). Plus, it'd put too many lives into the hands of government and expand the role of government too much. People fail to talk about this, but even Biden would raise taxes by a trillion + more than Clinton would have, and I didn't vote for her either.

You're just making stuff up about Biden here.  Biden is not proposing to raise taxes by even as much as Clinton was, much less 1 trillion more than Clinton.  Meanwhile, a public option is not an entitlement, you are confusing it with single payer when they are two extremely different things.  People have to pay for the public option.

Is this true? That's messed up, and goes to show how unserious Biden is about tackling inequality and the deep social problems the US faces.

But Biden is “electable” you see, and that’s all that matters is that we beat Trump 🙄
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Sen. Dean Heller
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« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2019, 01:48:36 am »

1. Socialism is worse. Even Biden supports a public option, which would be another disastrous entitlement program, bankrupt many insurers and hospitals, and throw tons of people off their healthcare plans (healthcare becomes less of a perk when it can also be gotten free, so businesses would stop offering it). Plus, it'd put too many lives into the hands of government and expand the role of government too much. People fail to talk about this, but even Biden would raise taxes by a trillion + more than Clinton would have, and I didn't vote for her either.


You're just making stuff up about Biden here.  Biden is not proposing to raise taxes by even as much as Clinton was, much less 1 trillion more than Clinton.  Meanwhile, a public option is not an entitlement, you are confusing it with single payer when they are two extremely different things.  People have to pay for the public option.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/biden-tax-plan-would-raise-3-2-trillion-by-targeting-the-rich-amazon-and-netflix

Versus

https://www.atr.org/full-list-hillary-s-planned-tax-hikes

$2.2 trillion more.

It's time to reduce the size of government, not expand by trillions of dollars. Even the Democratic "moderates" are no moderates at all.
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GeneralMacArthur
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« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2019, 01:56:26 am »

1. Socialism is worse. Even Biden supports a public option, which would be another disastrous entitlement program, bankrupt many insurers and hospitals, and throw tons of people off their healthcare plans (healthcare becomes less of a perk when it can also be gotten free, so businesses would stop offering it). Plus, it'd put too many lives into the hands of government and expand the role of government too much. People fail to talk about this, but even Biden would raise taxes by a trillion + more than Clinton would have, and I didn't vote for her either.


You're just making stuff up about Biden here.  Biden is not proposing to raise taxes by even as much as Clinton was, much less 1 trillion more than Clinton.  Meanwhile, a public option is not an entitlement, you are confusing it with single payer when they are two extremely different things.  People have to pay for the public option.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/biden-tax-plan-would-raise-3-2-trillion-by-targeting-the-rich-amazon-and-netflix

Versus

https://www.atr.org/full-list-hillary-s-planned-tax-hikes

$2.2 trillion more.

It's time to reduce the size of government, not expand by trillions of dollars. Even the Democratic "moderates" are no moderates at all.

Ah, the difference here is that we're not taking the 2017 tax cuts into account.

I guess the more accurate thing to say is that Biden's proposed tax rates are lower than those that Clinton proposed.  But they would raise more revenue, relative to the current position, because since Clinton's proposals the taxes have been substantially cut.

For example (with made up numbers), if a rate was 20% under Obama and Clinton wanted to raise it to 30%, that's a 10% increase.  Then if Biden wanted it to be 27%, but Trump cut it to 15%, that's a 12% increase.  But Biden's 27% is less than Clinton's 30%.
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