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  Why Right Leaning Posters on this forum should not support Trump in 2020 (search mode)
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Author Topic: Why Right Leaning Posters on this forum should not support Trump in 2020  (Read 1864 times)
Old School Republican
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« on: December 08, 2019, 10:22:02 pm »

I get why you want to support Trump as even though I have been a Never Trumper from day 1, there have been many times I have considered leaving that Never Trump Train .

Yes I like many of his policies such as : Taxes  , Regulations, his economic policy in general, China, Judges and despise the direction the Democratic Party is going. So if I was just voting on policy, yes I would vote for Trump in 2020. So despite that I believe conservatives should not vote for Trump in 2020 and these are the reasons

1. His behavior has utterly disgraced the office of President of the United States in every way possible and now to add insult to injury over the past few months he has openly made it clear he believes he is above the law.

If you are a principled conservative that alone should disqualify them alone from getting your vote as that violates every basic conservative principle possible. Now if this isnt enough (which it should be) here is the political reason why you shouldnt support Trump in 2020


2. Imagine 2022 and 2024 in a Trump reelection

2022 and 2024 are very likely going to be bloodbaths for the GOP during Trump's 2nd term as there very likely will be a recession in that time period , Trump fatigue will be at all time levels. So if you are scared of a Democratic Presidency now imagine after 2024 when Dems win the Presidency in a 2008 style victory with massive majorities in Congress. That means with those majorities single-payer, massive tax hikes , amnesty etc will pass easily as unlike 2009-10 there are basically no blue dogs left and history has showsn when new programs are created its almost impossible to repeal them. Right now yes a Dem will win will move the nation to the left but they wont have the majoirty to pass the  far left agenda .

Oh and add Texas could be lost for the GOP in 2024 after 8 years of Trump which will throw the party wilderness for many years so tell me what has Trump done that will be worth all this. Now I am sure you would all agree that Bush winning a 2nd term in 2004 wasnt worth it


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Old School Republican
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« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2019, 10:38:33 pm »

Largely agree. Barring a Bloomberg nomination and Presidency, I do think a Biden win in 2020 followed by a DeSantis win in 2024 is the best win for Conservatism overall. The risks of Trump 2020 into AOC 2024 are near-apocalyptic.

And this is why I will refuse to vote for Biden if he is the nominee.

Biden doesnt need Texas to win the General anyway. Just taking MI, PA , WI or AZ will do the job
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« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2019, 10:42:11 pm »

I get why you want to support Trump as even though I have been a Never Trumper from day 1, there have been many times I have considered leaving that Never Trump Train .

Yes I like many of his policies such as : Taxes  , Regulations, his economic policy in general, China, Judges and despise the direction the Democratic Party is going. So if I was just voting on policy, yes I would vote for Trump in 2020. So despite that I believe conservatives should not vote for Trump in 2020 and these are the reasons

1. His behavior has utterly disgraced the office of President of the United States in every way possible and now to add insult to injury over the past few months he has openly made it clear he believes he is above the law.

If you are a principled conservative that alone should disqualify them alone from getting your vote as that violates every basic conservative principle possible. Now if this isnt enough (which it should be) here is the political reason why you shouldnt support Trump in 2020


2. Imagine 2022 and 2024 in a Trump reelection

2022 and 2024 are very likely going to be bloodbaths for the GOP during Trump's 2nd term as there very likely will be a recession in that time period , Trump fatigue will be at all time levels. So if you are scared of a Democratic Presidency now imagine after 2024 when Dems win the Presidency in a 2008 style victory with massive majorities in Congress. That means with those majorities single-payer, massive tax hikes , amnesty etc will pass easily as unlike 2009-10 there are basically no blue dogs left and history has showsn when new programs are created its almost impossible to repeal them. Right now yes a Dem will win will move the nation to the left but they wont have the majoirty to pass the  far left agenda .

Oh and add Texas could be lost for the GOP in 2024 after 8 years of Trump which will throw the party wilderness for many years so tell me what has Trump done that will be worth all this. Now I am sure you would all agree that Bush winning a 2nd term in 2004 wasnt worth it




1. Socialism is worse. Even Biden supports a public option, which would be another disastrous entitlement program, bankrupt many insurers and hospitals, and throw tons of people off their healthcare plans (healthcare becomes less of a perk when it can also be gotten free, so businesses would stop offering it). Plus, it'd put too many lives into the hands of government and expand the role of government too much. People fail to talk about this, but even Biden would raise taxes by a trillion + more than Clinton would have, and I didn't vote for her either.

2. Yes, and this is all a major worry to me. But he's the only credible choice for my values, so I'm sticking with him. Better dead than red isn't just a slogan.

3. It was worth it. Bush 04 was a good thing - it was what happened after that wasn't.


1. How will they get socialist agenda passed with 50-52 senators (assuming they take majoirty) , as there are more than 3 Dems that oppose repealing filibuster.

2. Sacrificing Long Term for Short Term is not worth it

3. How can you say that now, its not like Bush got anything done in term 2 anyway and left the GOP in shambles and may have begun the process of the total destruction of Neo-Liberalism. If Kerry won in 2004 he would have had to work with a GOP congress , then in 2008 either Romney or McCain sweep in with huge majoirties.
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« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2019, 10:44:06 pm »

Largely agree. Barring a Bloomberg nomination and Presidency, I do think a Biden win in 2020 followed by a DeSantis win in 2024 is the best win for Conservatism overall. The risks of Trump 2020 into AOC 2024 are near-apocalyptic.

And this is why I will refuse to vote for Biden if he is the nominee.

Biden doesnt need Texas to win the General anyway. Just taking MI, PA , WI or AZ will do the job

That is not anywhere close to the point I was making.

I know, Im just saying Biden doesnt really need your vote to win . If you lived in one of those 4 states well then you would risk Trump getting in again
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« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2019, 10:51:56 pm »

I get why you want to support Trump as even though I have been a Never Trumper from day 1, there have been many times I have considered leaving that Never Trump Train .

Yes I like many of his policies such as : Taxes  , Regulations, his economic policy in general, China, Judges and despise the direction the Democratic Party is going. So if I was just voting on policy, yes I would vote for Trump in 2020. So despite that I believe conservatives should not vote for Trump in 2020 and these are the reasons

1. His behavior has utterly disgraced the office of President of the United States in every way possible and now to add insult to injury over the past few months he has openly made it clear he believes he is above the law.

If you are a principled conservative that alone should disqualify them alone from getting your vote as that violates every basic conservative principle possible. Now if this isnt enough (which it should be) here is the political reason why you shouldnt support Trump in 2020


2. Imagine 2022 and 2024 in a Trump reelection

2022 and 2024 are very likely going to be bloodbaths for the GOP during Trump's 2nd term as there very likely will be a recession in that time period , Trump fatigue will be at all time levels. So if you are scared of a Democratic Presidency now imagine after 2024 when Dems win the Presidency in a 2008 style victory with massive majorities in Congress. That means with those majorities single-payer, massive tax hikes , amnesty etc will pass easily as unlike 2009-10 there are basically no blue dogs left and history has showsn when new programs are created its almost impossible to repeal them. Right now yes a Dem will win will move the nation to the left but they wont have the majoirty to pass the  far left agenda .

Oh and add Texas could be lost for the GOP in 2024 after 8 years of Trump which will throw the party wilderness for many years so tell me what has Trump done that will be worth all this. Now I am sure you would all agree that Bush winning a 2nd term in 2004 wasnt worth it




1. Socialism is worse. Even Biden supports a public option, which would be another disastrous entitlement program, bankrupt many insurers and hospitals, and throw tons of people off their healthcare plans (healthcare becomes less of a perk when it can also be gotten free, so businesses would stop offering it). Plus, it'd put too many lives into the hands of government and expand the role of government too much. People fail to talk about this, but even Biden would raise taxes by a trillion + more than Clinton would have, and I didn't vote for her either.

2. Yes, and this is all a major worry to me. But he's the only credible choice for my values, so I'm sticking with him. Better dead than red isn't just a slogan.

3. It was worth it. Bush 04 was a good thing - it was what happened after that wasn't.


1. How will they get socialist agenda passed with 50-52 senators (assuming they take majoirty) , as there are more than 3 Dems that oppose repealing filibuster.

2. Sacrificing Long Term for Short Term is not worth it

3. How can you say that now, its not like Bush got anything done in term 2 anyway and left the GOP in shambles and may have begun the process of the total destruction of Neo-Liberalism. If Kerry won in 2004 he would have had to work with a GOP congress , then in 2008 either Romney or McCain sweep in with huge majoirties.

1. EOs and the big regulatory state

2. Until the short term becomes the long term maybe. But it's incredibly hard to repeal an entitlement program - see Obamacare - and the odds are that if a public option was passed, we'd be stuck with it - forever.

1. Which can basically be reversed with a stroke of a Pen like Trump has done and Obama did to much of Bush's EO's. Same with regulations

2. Public Option> Single Payer and if Trump wins in 2020 , then dems will very likely have majorities to pass single payer in 2025. Its not a great choice but Trump's and the GOP massive failure on healthcare in 2017 is the reason why that is the remaining choice . Also with a small majority I think really the only things will pass on healthcare: are the restoration of Obamacare Mandate, price controls for prescription drugs, and expansion of Medicaid.

On taxes no way such a large tax increase passes with that small majority other than just raising corporate tax from 20%-28% which would still be lower than the Pre 2017 rates.
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« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2019, 10:58:53 pm »

I get why you want to support Trump as even though I have been a Never Trumper from day 1, there have been many times I have considered leaving that Never Trump Train .

Yes I like many of his policies such as : Taxes  , Regulations, his economic policy in general, China, Judges and despise the direction the Democratic Party is going. So if I was just voting on policy, yes I would vote for Trump in 2020. So despite that I believe conservatives should not vote for Trump in 2020 and these are the reasons

1. His behavior has utterly disgraced the office of President of the United States in every way possible and now to add insult to injury over the past few months he has openly made it clear he believes he is above the law.

If you are a principled conservative that alone should disqualify them alone from getting your vote as that violates every basic conservative principle possible. Now if this isnt enough (which it should be) here is the political reason why you shouldnt support Trump in 2020


2. Imagine 2022 and 2024 in a Trump reelection

2022 and 2024 are very likely going to be bloodbaths for the GOP during Trump's 2nd term as there very likely will be a recession in that time period , Trump fatigue will be at all time levels. So if you are scared of a Democratic Presidency now imagine after 2024 when Dems win the Presidency in a 2008 style victory with massive majorities in Congress. That means with those majorities single-payer, massive tax hikes , amnesty etc will pass easily as unlike 2009-10 there are basically no blue dogs left and history has showsn when new programs are created its almost impossible to repeal them. Right now yes a Dem will win will move the nation to the left but they wont have the majoirty to pass the  far left agenda .

Oh and add Texas could be lost for the GOP in 2024 after 8 years of Trump which will throw the party wilderness for many years so tell me what has Trump done that will be worth all this. Now I am sure you would all agree that Bush winning a 2nd term in 2004 wasnt worth it




1. Socialism is worse. Even Biden supports a public option, which would be another disastrous entitlement program, bankrupt many insurers and hospitals, and throw tons of people off their healthcare plans (healthcare becomes less of a perk when it can also be gotten free, so businesses would stop offering it). Plus, it'd put too many lives into the hands of government and expand the role of government too much. People fail to talk about this, but even Biden would raise taxes by a trillion + more than Clinton would have, and I didn't vote for her either.

2. Yes, and this is all a major worry to me. But he's the only credible choice for my values, so I'm sticking with him. Better dead than red isn't just a slogan.

3. It was worth it. Bush 04 was a good thing - it was what happened after that wasn't.


1. How will they get socialist agenda passed with 50-52 senators (assuming they take majoirty) , as there are more than 3 Dems that oppose repealing filibuster.

2. Sacrificing Long Term for Short Term is not worth it

3. How can you say that now, its not like Bush got anything done in term 2 anyway and left the GOP in shambles and may have begun the process of the total destruction of Neo-Liberalism. If Kerry won in 2004 he would have had to work with a GOP congress , then in 2008 either Romney or McCain sweep in with huge majoirties.

1. EOs and the big regulatory state

2. Until the short term becomes the long term maybe. But it's incredibly hard to repeal an entitlement program - see Obamacare - and the odds are that if a public option was passed, we'd be stuck with it - forever.

1. Which can basically be reversed with a stroke of a Pen like Trump has done and Obama did to much of Bush's EO's. Same with regulations

2. Public Option> Single Payer and if Trump wins in 2020 , then dems will very likely have majorities to pass single payer in 2025. Its not a great choice but Trump's and the GOP massive failure on healthcare in 2017 is the reason why that is the remaining choice . Also with a small majority I think really the only things will pass on healthcare: are the restoration of Obamacare Mandate, price controls for prescription drugs, and expansion of Medicaid.

On taxes no way such a large tax increase passes with that small majority other than just raising corporate tax from 20%-28% which would still be lower than the Pre 2017 rates.
Conceding the battles of today so we can win the battles of tomorrow is stupid, because it'll just make them stronger and more aggressive for them. Plus, we can't truly ever predict the future, even if we can place odds on it. Who knows how the next few years will turn out? Who would have predicted in 2012 that Donald Trump would be President today?

No but I would have Predicted a Republican Trifecta after 2016
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« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2019, 04:31:24 am »

Largely agree. Barring a Bloomberg nomination and Presidency, I do think a Biden win in 2020 followed by a DeSantis win in 2024 is the best win for Conservatism overall. The risks of Trump 2020 into AOC 2024 are near-apocalyptic.

And this is why I will refuse to vote for Biden if he is the nominee.

Biden doesnt need Texas to win the General anyway. Just taking MI, PA , WI or AZ will do the job

That is not anywhere close to the point I was making. A Biden victory would be a Pyrrhic victory at best for Democrats and would almost definitely result in Republican blowouts in 2022 and 2024 with nothing to show for it other than getting Trump out of office.

A re-elected Trump is preferable to a useless one-term Biden presidency. The Supreme Court is already fóked anyway, so thereís not much risk there

Dude, winning the presidency is basically always a kind of pyrrhic victory, look at 2016 ; it was a big win for republicans on the short term but look at what was the cost of this win, we got trounced in 2018 when we lost 41 seats in the House and our dream of a 60 seats Senate majority never happened   

If Kasich or even Marco were President, the Republicans would still have control of the House today.
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« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2019, 12:38:54 pm »

Largely agree. Barring a Bloomberg nomination and Presidency, I do think a Biden win in 2020 followed by a DeSantis win in 2024 is the best win for Conservatism overall. The risks of Trump 2020 into AOC 2024 are near-apocalyptic.

And this is why I will refuse to vote for Biden if he is the nominee.

Biden doesnt need Texas to win the General anyway. Just taking MI, PA , WI or AZ will do the job

That is not anywhere close to the point I was making. A Biden victory would be a Pyrrhic victory at best for Democrats and would almost definitely result in Republican blowouts in 2022 and 2024 with nothing to show for it other than getting Trump out of office.

A re-elected Trump is preferable to a useless one-term Biden presidency. The Supreme Court is already fóked anyway, so thereís not much risk there

Dude, winning the presidency is basically always a kind of pyrrhic victory, look at 2016 ; it was a big win for republicans on the short term but look at what was the cost of this win, we got trounced in 2018 when we lost 41 seats in the House and our dream of a 60 seats Senate majority never happened   

If Kasich or even Marco were President, the Republicans would still have control of the House today.

This is pure speculation and you have no proof to back that up


Obviously no proof by that would be most likely outcome , Democrats make gains but not enough to take the house as suburbs such as Orange County would still be Republican today .


Trump is the reason that hard left trend happened
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« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2019, 12:41:11 pm »

Largely agree. Barring a Bloomberg nomination and Presidency, I do think a Biden win in 2020 followed by a DeSantis win in 2024 is the best win for Conservatism overall. The risks of Trump 2020 into AOC 2024 are near-apocalyptic.

And this is why I will refuse to vote for Biden if he is the nominee.

Biden doesnt need Texas to win the General anyway. Just taking MI, PA , WI or AZ will do the job

That is not anywhere close to the point I was making. A Biden victory would be a Pyrrhic victory at best for Democrats and would almost definitely result in Republican blowouts in 2022 and 2024 with nothing to show for it other than getting Trump out of office.

A re-elected Trump is preferable to a useless one-term Biden presidency. The Supreme Court is already fóked anyway, so thereís not much risk there

Dude, winning the presidency is basically always a kind of pyrrhic victory, look at 2016 ; it was a big win for republicans on the short term but look at what was the cost of this win, we got trounced in 2018 when we lost 41 seats in the House and our dream of a 60 seats Senate majority never happened   

If Kasich or even Marco were President, the Republicans would still have control of the House today.

Yeah, but Kasich would have been a horrible president, over the last 5 years he has gone from a center right republican to a total RINO (vetoed the Heartbeat bill, endorsed gun control measures, backed tax increases on fracking, became a pro-immigration hack, wants the USA to move back inside the Paris agreement)



Kasich also signed a 20 week ban , supporting defunding PP etc. the gun control measures he supports or still less pro gun control than the measures Reagan supported.


Kasich on other hand would have gotten a good healthcare bill passed , an even better tax bill , actual immigration reform and the nation would be in much much better shape today
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« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2019, 12:09:30 am »

Thank you, OSR, for making this post. It's hard to resist the temptation to join the Trump train, as so many of your fellow Republican posters have done. The fact that you haven't already joined them really shows your commitment to actual conservative ideals and decency. I wish more Americans (both Republicans and Democrats) were like that in their commitments.

There were many  times I considered joining the Trump train but eveytime I was close to , Trump did something that pulled me out and after the Ukraine thing , I am fully done with Trump.

You're yelling into a void, Old School Republican. That ship sailed even before he won the 2016 primary. And clearly you learned very little from that time if you think the party is going to redeem itself with a more mainstream candidate in 2024. I don't know what a post-Trump GOP is going to look like, but I imagine that it will take longer than four years to truly outgrow Trumpism.

DeSantis , Haley would be great Presidents and I would support either of them enthusiastically
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« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2019, 09:13:18 pm »

Sad to see you slowly melting into the Borg.

Vote for guy who openly wants to crush the poor with taxes to force them to live like he wants them to instead! How can you take yourself seriously?

You yourself acknowledge the GOP winning a third term is gonna be almost impossible in 2024, and that 2022 map is an absolute disaster for the GOP and that doenst include factors like the 6 year itch and a very proabable recession. So what will happen is The GOP by 2024 may be wiped out to near 2009 levels and unlike in 2009-10 there will be almost no blue dogs left to stop a far left agenda.


On the other hand if Trump loses in 2020, the Dems wont have that many seats to enact that much of their agenda other than at best temporaily taking us back to how things were before Trump . Then GOP can bide their time and come back with DeSantis , or Haley.



Trump winning 2020 will be the Republicans winning the battle but losing the war, and I would rather much have them lose the battle but not lose the war.


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« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2019, 09:35:16 pm »

Sad to see you slowly melting into the Borg.

Vote for guy who openly wants to crush the poor with taxes to force them to live like he wants them to instead! How can you take yourself seriously?

You yourself acknowledge the GOP winning a third term is gonna be almost impossible in 2024, and that 2022 map is an absolute disaster for the GOP and that doenst include factors like the 6 year itch and a very proabable recession. So what will happen is The GOP by 2024 may be wiped out to near 2009 levels and unlike in 2009-10 there will be almost no blue dogs left to stop a far left agenda.

It's unlikely that the GOP will lose control of the senate in 2020. So three words: Supreme. Court. Vacancy.
Filling the likely vacancy will help us more in the long run than the hurt that will result from communists controlling the House and squandering this power for a few more cycles.

Not to mention all the other judicial vacancies there are still left to be filled.


Republicans already have the court now. If Dems though get the trifecta in 2024 with 57+ senators(I would say likely if Trump wins) then single-payer likely passes, green new deal, massive just massive tax hikes will all become law which is a far bigger disaster
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« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2019, 09:49:04 pm »

Sad to see you slowly melting into the Borg.

Vote for guy who openly wants to crush the poor with taxes to force them to live like he wants them to instead! How can you take yourself seriously?

You yourself acknowledge the GOP winning a third term is gonna be almost impossible in 2024, and that 2022 map is an absolute disaster for the GOP and that doenst include factors like the 6 year itch and a very proabable recession. So what will happen is The GOP by 2024 may be wiped out to near 2009 levels and unlike in 2009-10 there will be almost no blue dogs left to stop a far left agenda.

It's unlikely that the GOP will lose control of the senate in 2020. So three words: Supreme. Court. Vacancy.
Filling the likely vacancy will help us more in the long run than the hurt that will result from communists controlling the House and squandering this power for a few more cycles.

Not to mention all the other judicial vacancies there are still left to be filled.


Republicans already have the court now. If Dems though get the trifecta in 2024 with 57+ senators(I would say likely if Trump wins) then single-payer likely passes, green new deal, massive just massive tax hikes will all become law which is a far bigger disaster

What the hell are you smoking? If Trump wins re-election, we are probably looking at having 52 - 54 R senators + Manchin & Sinema. No way in hell 9-11 senate seats flip in 2022 -- zero of those seats are in blue states. A few would flip, but your prediction is beyond insane.




There likely will be a recession in 2022 so if Trump wins and say Republicans have 52-53 seats they will lose : PA, WI, IA, GA, AZ(if McSally wins) for sure and OH probably too since recessions hit states like OH very badly compared to the rest of the nation  . So that means they lose 6 and that drops Republicans down to 47 seats. Then in 2024 they probably lose TX, FL and some other surprise race and that drops them to 44. Ok so thats 56-44 and Dems probably then may well wipe the filibuster out and other than Manchin, Sinema , Tester well that passes and with a far left president well then so many things will get passed.
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« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2019, 04:58:35 am »

This is basically a parody. A 80/20 Left/Right forum where the 20% right-wingers are already 15% NeverTrump and Kasich-type Republicans and 5% Trump-supporting. There is no need for this thread, you can already count genuine Trump-supporting Republicans on this forum on a hand.

This is one of the best posts of 2019, thank you! Yes, this forum is largely an echochamber that lacks more self-awareness than your nearest narcissistic diva.

Keep in mind that OSR is someone who treats Atlas in the same way he treats forums to post his Star Wars Lore opinions in. NeverTrump Republicans are the 'good guys' to cheerlead and hype up, and getting along with Democrats is a virtue to feel good about adhering to, even if they walk all over you.




Wait so someone who blindly supports one party over another is principled but someone like me who is saying no I wont blindly support a politician just because of party affiliation then that person is treating politics like some game. What type of upside down world is that

Also if Biden wins but the Republicans still control the senate the leftist agenda will be blocked and heck even if they have 51 senators it will be blocked cause Manchin and Sinema wont go along with the leftist agenda .


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« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2019, 05:02:49 am »

Also if Biden wins but the Republicans still control the senate the leftist agenda will be blocked and heck even if they have 51 senators it will be blocked cause Manchin and Sinema wont go along with the leftist agenda .

LMAO, Manchin and Sinema would never cast a decisive vote against their own party on any major legislation. Youíre so naÔve itís almost cute.


Manchin wonít vote for bs like single payer , massive tax hikes , abolishing filibuster etc
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« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2019, 12:50:09 pm »

Also if Biden wins but the Republicans still control the senate the leftist agenda will be blocked and heck even if they have 51 senators it will be blocked cause Manchin and Sinema wont go along with the leftist agenda .

LMAO, Manchin and Sinema would never cast a decisive vote against their own party on any major legislation. Youíre so naÔve itís almost cute.


Manchin wonít vote for bs like single payer , massive tax hikes , abolishing filibuster etc

Manchin is a populist, not a conservative.
It would not be very hard to convince him to vote for a wealthy tax or a 35% corporate tax rate, you have just to buy his vote by funding a big highway to nowhere in southern WV and the deal is done

Manchin is not a populist lol
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« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2019, 02:04:03 pm »

Also if Biden wins but the Republicans still control the senate the leftist agenda will be blocked and heck even if they have 51 senators it will be blocked cause Manchin and Sinema wont go along with the leftist agenda .

LMAO, Manchin and Sinema would never cast a decisive vote against their own party on any major legislation. Youíre so naÔve itís almost cute.


Manchin wonít vote for bs like single payer , massive tax hikes , abolishing filibuster etc

Manchin is a populist, not a conservative.
It would not be very hard to convince him to vote for a wealthy tax or a 35% corporate tax rate, you have just to buy his vote by funding a big highway to nowhere in southern WV and the deal is done

Manchin is not a populist lol

Care to explain ? I mean itís not like if he was some kind of ííconservative, bow weevils southern democratíí . The dude voted against the ACA repeal and against the 2017 Tax reform, he is fairly friendly to labor groups.


McCain and Collins votes against the ACA repeal too , as that bill was horrible .

Also there is a huge difference between supporting ACA and Single Payer which Manchin has already ruled out of supporting and their is a huge difference between supporting pre 2016 tax code vs supporting type of tax code Warren or Bernie want
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Old School Republican
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« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2019, 09:19:18 pm »

Old School, I have to respectively disagree with you here. Yes, if Trump wins we could lose the Senate in 2022, but we would still have 2 more years before that would happen. Also, even if Trump loses, it does not mean Republicans keep the Senate as the Democrats could very well win 50+ seats in 2020 along with the Presidency. The executive branch is much more valuable than the legislative one and we can't let afford it to be lost. You also have to keep in mind that the Democrat isn't guaranteed to lose in 2024, and they could waltz to re-election if the wrong Republican is nominated.

Long story short, politics bounces way too much to plan for the future so it is smarter to just win when you can and not try to stress about what the result of the win is.


I would agree with anyone but Trump. The 2018 electon should have results in elections similar to 1978 which was minor gains for the opposition party but instead it was another 2010. This shows how weak Trump is , despite the economy(which i think an exit poll had nearly 70% thinking economy was good).

If you had Kasich or Rubio in the WH the Republicans would still have both houses today and their future in states like GA would be still pretty solid. Remember this if TX flips , its a disaster of epic proportions for Conservatism and the next decade following that election would be to conservatism what the 1980s were to liberalism , an utter disaster and Trump is causing TX to trend Dem at an alarming rate.


When you see trends like that its best you cut ties with the leader causing those trends before its too late

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Old School Republican
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« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2019, 07:46:45 pm »

Also if Biden wins but the Republicans still control the senate the leftist agenda will be blocked and heck even if they have 51 senators it will be blocked cause Manchin and Sinema wont go along with the leftist agenda .

LMAO, Manchin and Sinema would never cast a decisive vote against their own party on any major legislation. Youíre so naÔve itís almost cute.


Manchin wonít vote for bs like single payer , massive tax hikes , abolishing filibuster etc

Manchin is a populist, not a conservative.
It would not be very hard to convince him to vote for a wealthy tax or a 35% corporate tax rate, you have just to buy his vote by funding a big highway to nowhere in southern WV and the deal is done

Manchin is not a populist lol

Care to explain ? I mean itís not like if he was some kind of ííconservative, bow weevils southern democratíí . The dude voted against the ACA repeal and against the 2017 Tax reform, he is fairly friendly to labor groups.


McCain and Collins votes against the ACA repeal too , as that bill was horrible .

Also there is a huge difference between supporting ACA and Single Payer which Manchin has already ruled out of supporting and their is a huge difference between supporting pre 2016 tax code vs supporting type of tax code Warren or Bernie want

Well, yeah, but you donít disprove my point, sure he is not a communist like Sanders or Warren, I donít pretend otherwise, but not being a communist doesnít mean youíre a centrist either.

Manchin is a populist and there are few doubt that he would happily vote to increase the corporate tax back to where it was in 2016, maybe you donít care, but increasing the corporate tax by 50% is still a very left wing position, and letís be clear, if youíre a conservative you should not count on this fraud to save your ass


I have a question would you take this result a Dem winning in 2020 but Republicans keeping the Senate. Thats the ideal scenario in my opinion because if that happens , none of the 2017 tax reform bill will be repealed
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