Are Mormon's Christians?
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  Are Mormon's Christians?
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Author Topic: Are Mormon's Christians?  (Read 3560 times)
Citizen James
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« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2006, 04:46:30 PM »

By most mainstream definitions, yes.

A group that honestly and sincerely considers itself Christian - check.
A group that bases it's teachings on it's interperetations of the teachings of Jesus - check.

Where it might fail is meeting specific doctrinal principles - but then you're not really describing Christianity, but only a subset of it.

Mormons are not fundementalists - even though both groups tend to vote heavily republican.

Mormons are evangelical, in the sense that they actively try to spread their church's teachings.

Mormons are sufficently numerous in the US that they do not fit the academic definiton of cult (a group which is small and signifigantly different from the surounding region - a Christian in Bangalore, or a Hindi in Birmingham.  The term "New religious movement" is often  used now as it lacks the negative connotations).

The commonly used definition of cult (any group I don't like), is, obviously, open to interperetation, and pretty much useless.

And they do not fit the defintion of dangerous  also commonly used (a group which is highly exclusive, paranoid, and presents a serious danger to themselves or others - such as the branch dividians or heavens gate).  Most of their detractors probably come closer to this definition than they do.
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J. J.
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« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2006, 05:28:32 PM »

They certainly are not Protestants, though.

correct.  and they're very quick to point that out if you should ever attempt to group them with protestants, all of which suggests they probably deserve a separate, fourth, categorization outside the usual Catholic (Eastern or Roman), Protestant (Evangelical or Mainline), and Copt (qibt) groupings within Christianity.



Well, I see a problem.  If you characterize "Protestant" as originating in the  Reformation, then no.  But you would have to say the same thing about Methodism.  Most people would characterize Methodism as Protestant.
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angus
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« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2006, 05:55:03 PM »
« Edited: January 21, 2006, 06:47:28 PM by angus »

I've never been excoriated by a Methodist, or any other mainline protestant, for using the word Protestant to label their flavor of Christianity.  Let's be clear, the several times I have been corrected by Mormons did not originate because I claimed that their brand of religion originated in the Reformation.  Because I made no such claim.  Nor do I claim now that Methodism was founded by Luther or Calvin or a frustrated English king.  Nevertheless, based on what I understand of the two major flavors of Protestantism, Methodism seems like a good fit within mainline protestantism.  Moreover, in the broader context, I agree that grouping Mormons with Protestants isn't really valid.  As I have stated, I do own a hardbound version of the Book of Mormon, and have read parts of it.  I am aware that Jesus visited the Americas, for example, and I understand a little about the history and move Westward by Joseph Smith from Illinois to Utah.  Note also that mormons call non-mormons "gentiles"  I am also familiar with the Mormon seven levels of heaven, and the human spirit's free choice of incarnation, both in terms of time and place.  This is neither catholocism nor protestantism as far as I can tell.  (Those two groups discriminate, chiefly, on the issue of whether 7 books of early Christian writings from the Alexandria collection are sufficiently canonical to be included with the other books of the Old Testament.  You know, those crazy Hellenistic Jews and their Greek text instead of Hebrew.  But Mormon textual additions go far beyond this minor difference, I can assure you.)  Though, as I stated, I'm no religious scholar, and beyond the superficial and historical aspects I've noted here, I think you'll have to read the Book of Mormon and decide for yourself whether you want to call them Protestant.  But take my caveat seriously:  they don't like it, and they'll let you know it very quickly and very clearly. 
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Gabu
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« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2006, 05:56:03 PM »

Most programs here have long commercial breaks every half hour.

Interesting to know Alberta is like that.  I've never been there.

Just kidding.  Yeah, my parenthetical rant was a bit of an exaggeration.  The first thing you notice in a place like Germany is that you have to sit through a rerun of "Hogan's Heroes" in its entirety without a break.  Seems annoying.  But obviously during a two-hour movie there are breaks.  At least in the parts of Germany and Netherland I have lived in.

I can't remember how they do it in Canada.  Even though it's our second-closest neighboring country, and I have been there many times, I can't remember paying much attention to what's on TV there.  But this is a bit off topic.  I just thought it was interesting the way you interjected immediately that Mormons are not prots.  I found that on more than one occassion the hard way as well, and have been excoriated by mormons for grouping them thusly.  "Hey, man, we're not protesting anything!  Got that?"  Er, okay, I can see why you people shun caffeine.  Clearly you don't need it.

Actually, Lewis is from Germany.  He's just got that avatar up because of the Canadian election on Monday.
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« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2006, 06:24:20 PM »

By most mainstream definitions, yes.

A group that honestly and sincerely considers itself Christian - check.
A group that bases it's teachings on it's interperetations of the teachings of Jesus - check.

Where it might fail is meeting specific doctrinal principles - but then you're not really describing Christianity, but only a subset of it.

Mormons are not fundementalists - even though both groups tend to vote heavily republican.

Mormons are evangelical, in the sense that they actively try to spread their church's teachings.

Mormons are sufficently numerous in the US that they do not fit the academic definiton of cult (a group which is small and signifigantly different from the surounding region - a Christian in Bangalore, or a Hindi in Birmingham.  The term "New religious movement" is often  used now as it lacks the negative connotations).

The commonly used definition of cult (any group I don't like), is, obviously, open to interperetation, and pretty much useless.

And they do not fit the defintion of dangerous  also commonly used (a group which is highly exclusive, paranoid, and presents a serious danger to themselves or others - such as the branch dividians or heavens gate).  Most of their detractors probably come closer to this definition than they do.

PC rubbish. But what can I expect from a proven liar, eh?
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Alcon
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« Reply #30 on: January 21, 2006, 06:28:33 PM »

PC rubbish. But what can I expect from a proven liar, eh?

What exactly has he lied about, and what is rubbish about what he says?
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StatesRights
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« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2006, 06:32:02 PM »

PC rubbish. But what can I expect from a proven liar, eh?

What exactly has he lied about, and what is rubbish about what he says?

Mainstream christianity does not accept mormonism as just another "christian sect". And several insulting comments claiming I am a nazi are flat out disgusting lies. Of course he's to much of a coward to be a man and stand behind his words.
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Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon
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« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2006, 06:36:27 PM »

Of course they are.
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J. J.
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« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2006, 08:59:55 PM »

I've never been excoriated by a Methodist, or any other mainline protestant, for using the word Protestant to label their flavor of Christianity... .


Though, as I stated, I'm no religious scholar, and beyond the superficial and historical aspects I've noted here, I think you'll have to read the Book of Mormon and decide for yourself whether you want to call them Protestant.  But take my caveat seriously:  they don't like it, and they'll let you know it very quickly and very clearly. 

Angus, I'm noting that the label "Protestant" really has very little meaning, because it would either include all Christian Churches founded after 1500 (actually earlier with the Brethren), or it would mean only those Churches founded as a result of the Reformation, which would exclude Methodists, Quakers, Swedenborgians.
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angus
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« Reply #34 on: January 21, 2006, 09:04:44 PM »

I totally disagree, and have provided you with what I see as their primary discriminating factor.  I may have referred to it as a "minor" difference, but I think the difference is HUGE to practicing catholics and protestants.  Note that either way, the textual difference between catholics and protestants is still minor with respect to the big textual difference between those to groups on one hand, and Mormons on the other.  But this is just my take.  But I will say that a perusal of the long discussions between say Supersoulty and jmfcst will confirm that observant Catholics and Protestants put quite a bit of stock in the minor difference.  And again, Mormons are neither.  They are, however, Christians, and I'm surprised at Jeff, who is usually well versed in history, but who somehow is convinced that they aren't "real" Christians.
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MODU
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« Reply #35 on: January 22, 2006, 01:02:18 AM »



Mormons are like Muslims.  They follow an additional doctrine outside of the Bible, so they are not "Christians" in that sense.  They are their own stand-alone religion.  After all, the Mormon view of the afterlife is far different than "Christian" views.
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Rin-chan
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« Reply #36 on: January 22, 2006, 04:40:05 PM »

I say no.

Christianity added the New Testament to the Old Testament, which separates us from Judaism.  However, adding the Book of Morman to the Bible makes you another religion entirely, but derived from, Christianity.

Protestants all look at the same or similar (as in NIV or King James version or something like that) Bible as Catholics do, they just interpret things differently.    To add another book that none of the other Christian religions recognize makes it different.

Now, that's not to say they're not good people.

Rin-chan 
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #37 on: January 22, 2006, 04:58:54 PM »

Most programs here have long commercial breaks every half hour.

Interesting to know Alberta is like that.  I've never been there.

Just kidding.  Yeah, my parenthetical rant was a bit of an exaggeration.  The first thing you notice in a place like Germany is that you have to sit through a rerun of "Hogan's Heroes" in its entirety without a break.  Seems annoying.  But obviously during a two-hour movie there are breaks.  At least in the parts of Germany and Netherland I have lived in.

I can't remember how they do it in Canada.  Even though it's our second-closest neighboring country, and I have been there many times, I can't remember paying much attention to what's on TV there.  But this is a bit off topic.  I just thought it was interesting the way you interjected immediately that Mormons are not prots.  I found that on more than one occassion the hard way as well, and have been excoriated by mormons for grouping them thusly.  "Hey, man, we're not protesting anything!  Got that?"  Er, okay, I can see why you people shun caffeine.  Clearly you don't need it.

Actually, Lewis is from Germany.  He's just got that avatar up because of the Canadian election on Monday.
I think Angus knows that, and was kidding me. Then again, he might have remembered that I've been to Canada and thought that I was talking about Canada... I don't remember about advertising in Canada, actually. Sad
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angus
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« Reply #38 on: January 22, 2006, 05:14:17 PM »

it's okay Lewis, we're on the same page.  I know where you live.

I was picking on the fact that you change avatars more often than I change underwear.  That reminds me, it's Sunday.  Shower day and clean underwear day.  You know, I like to start off the week with that fresh feeling.

I'd forgotten that there is a pattern behind your avatar changes though, and the Canada one makes sense, except that your choice of provinces eludes me.
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #39 on: January 22, 2006, 05:18:26 PM »

it's okay Lewis, we're on the same page.  I know where you live.

I was picking on the fact that you change avatars more often than I change underwear.  That reminds me, it's Sunday.  Shower day and clean underwear day.  You know, I like to start off the week with that fresh feeling.

I'd forgotten that there is a pattern behind your avatar changes though, and the Canada one makes sense, except that your choice of provinces eludes me.
Because that's the province of Canada that I've actually been to. When I was new to the Forum I also picked avatars mostly of states that I've been to, although I've come off that long ago.
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angus
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« Reply #40 on: January 22, 2006, 05:31:45 PM »

Ah, makes sense.  You were OR-green for a long time at first, as I recall.  And I think I said something about going up to Crater Lake, which was a few hours north of home at the time, and then you started putting something about being from Frankfurt in your sig (maybe so that wouldn't happen so often.)

Conjoint twins are never delivered vaginally I just learned on TLC.  Always C-sections.
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #41 on: January 22, 2006, 05:32:48 PM »

Ah, makes sense.  You were OR-green for a long time at first, as I recall.  And I think I said something about going up to Crater Lake, which was a few hours north of home at the time, and then you started putting something about being from Frankfurt in your sig (maybe so that wouldn't happen so often.)

Conjoint twins are never delivered vaginally I just learned on TLC.  Always C-sections.
Oh, they have been delivered to the uterus vaginally, I am sure.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #42 on: January 23, 2006, 01:28:29 AM »

Ah, makes sense.  You were OR-green for a long time at first, as I recall.  And I think I said something about going up to Crater Lake, which was a few hours north of home at the time, and then you started putting something about being from Frankfurt in your sig (maybe so that wouldn't happen so often.)

Conjoint twins are never delivered vaginally I just learned on TLC.  Always C-sections.
Oh, they have been delivered to the uterus vaginally, I am sure.

Cheesy
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