Impeachment Megathread Part 3

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

I would say the House should just go ahead and subpoena him if he has now announced that he is willing to testify. Schedule hearings in a few days to a week or so, no need to wait on McConnell, who will never do anything about it in the first place.

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

I know this is only somewhat related to impeachment, but this seems like the most appropriate thread to post this:

https://twitter.com/_cingraham/status/1217496333684109312

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

The Voters will decide the Presidents Fate and not you and your other Impeachment Clowns - Period!

This is incorrect. The voters do not decide who the President is, or else Hillary Clinton, who got approximately 3 million more votes than Trump, would be President.

The peculiar institution of the Electoral College decides who the President is, not the voters.

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

Could be hype, but...

https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/status/1217606111404097536

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

https://twitter.com/PGourevitch/status/1217632565181538304

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

Parnas also implicates Barr and Nunez.

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

https://twitter.com/DavidCornDC/status/1217640773564485640

The oligarch referenced is Dmitri Firtash btw.

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

https://mobile.twitter.com/pollreport/status/1218984033893269506

An interesting thing here is to compare the undecideds by party.

Only 1% of Dems are undecided on that...
14% of "Independents" are undecided...
23% of Republicans are undecided...

What does this tell you? There are a good number of Republicans who kinda-sorta know/feel that there is something wrong here... but they lack the courage to say so.

Some element of them knows that it is wrong, but... Trump did that! So they know they can't say "no," because that would not be the Republican thing to say...

It is not what they would say if Obama were President... It is not what they would say if Romney were President...

But if Trump is President...

cognitive dissonance.

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

https://mobile.twitter.com/pollreport/status/1218984033893269506

An interesting thing here is to compare the undecideds by party.

Only 1% of Dems are undecided on that...
14% of "Independents" are undecided...
23% of Republicans are undecided...

What does this tell you? There are a good number of Republicans who kinda-sorta know/feel that there is something wrong here... but they lack the courage to say so.

Some element of them knows that it is wrong, but... Trump did that! So they know they can't say "no," because that would not be the Republican thing to say...

It is not what they would say if Obama were President... It is not what they would say if Romney were President...

But if Trump is President...

cognitive dissonance.

We exist.  Trust me.  There aren't nearly as many of us as there should be, but we're out there.

REP.
  Yes 48%
  No 29%

I would have assumed you would fall under that 29%. I wasn't talking about that 29%, but rather about the 23% that doesn't fall under either the 48% or the 29%.

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

https://twitter.com/brianklaas/status/1218984493526196224

Yes, that seems like exactly the sort of precedent we should all want to set.

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

So what happens if John Roberts falls asleep? Surely that will eventually happen if they go on long enough?

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

https://twitter.com/ryanjreilly/status/1220068544865619968

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

When Trump's team gets their 24 hours for their case, watch the GOP senators applaud every single sentence.

They get imprisoned if they say anything/don't sit in silence, under the rules. Or at least they are supposed to, if the rules are followed.

So I think you are confusing the GOP Senators with Trump - it is Trump, not them, who belongs in prison.

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

Adam Schiff (D-CA) made a BIG, BIG collossal Unforced Error with his "Head on a Pike Thing" Remarks.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/democrat-schiffs-head-pike-comment-draws-outrage-gop/story?id=68527054&cid=social_twitter_abcnp

Alaska Senator Lisa Murkowski, a Key Swing GOP Vote said quote:"This is where he lost me".

Without Murkowskis Vote it's Game Over to call witnesses by Democrats.

Suppose it is true that Murkowski decided to change her vote based just on Schiff saying "head on a pike."

Whether or not Schiff said "head on a pike" is entirely immaterial to the facts of the case and to the law.

So if Murkowski (or anyone else) would have changed their votes based on that, that simply means that they were not deciding how to vote based on the facts of the case and on the law.

This means that Murkowski (and any other such Senator) is violating their oaths by their own admission and is operating in bad faith - it means that she has no interest in upholding her duty under the Constitution.

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

Adam Schiff (D-CA) made a BIG, BIG collossal Unforced Error with his "Head on a Pike Thing" Remarks.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/democrat-schiffs-head-pike-comment-draws-outrage-gop/story?id=68527054&cid=social_twitter_abcnp

Alaska Senator Lisa Murkowski, a Key Swing GOP Vote said quote:"This is where he lost me".

Without Murkowskis Vote it's Game Over to call witnesses by Democrats.

Suppose it is true that Murkowski decided to change her vote based just on Schiff saying "head on a pike."

Whether or not Schiff said "head on a pike" is entirely immaterial to the facts of the case and to the law.

So if Murkowski (or anyone else) would have changed their votes based on that, that simply means that they were not deciding how to vote based on the facts of the case and on the law.

This means that Murkowski (and any other such Senator) is violating their oaths by their own admission and is operating in bad faith - it means that she has no interest in upholding her duty under the Constitution.

You're totally right, but this doesn't matter to Republicans. All they are doing is looking for excuses to acquit Trump. That's basically what the defense's arguments boil down to after all: "here are a bunch of bulls*** excuses, pick whichever poison you need to in order to rationalize acquitting Trump."

Yeah, so if that is the case, what Schiff said is totally irrelevant. In that case, she was just looking for an excuse. If Schiff had not said that, then she would simply invent some other excuse.

Alternatively:

I do feel like he's somewhat mischaracterizing her comment. She wasn't saying that's when she decided to change her mind on impeachment. I believe she was saying that was the part of his presentation she didn't liked.

In that case, then fine. But if so, then Schiff's comment is also irrelevant - then it is simply something that she didn't like, but is not something that substantively altered whatever decision she will make on how to vote.

Either way, Schiff's comment is irrelevant. It is just something that Trump's defense team and Republicans more generally like to talk about as a distraction because they can't talk about anything else - namely the facts and the law.

Anything to distract from the facts about what Trump actually did.

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

This whole thing about a supposed "deal" for witnesses is a non-starter & non-sequitur. Republicans have more than 50 votes in the Senate. If they want to call Hunter Biden or whoever and make a mockery out of themselves and the proceedings, there is nothing stopping them from doing that, and it doesn't depend on Democrats at all.

Moreover, there has been nothing stopping them from doing that since the start. So if they actually wanted to do so, one would think that they would have done so already (hint - they don't actually want that, they are just using it as a scare tactic and to try to distract from the facts of the case about what Trump did).

Moreover, they can also call whoever they want to testify before committees. There is nothing stopping Lindsay Graham or whatever committee chairs from calling whoever they want to testify before Congress.

None of that depends on Democrats or Democratic votes, and the idea that it does is ludicrous.

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

This whole thing about a supposed "deal" for witnesses is a non-starter & non-sequitur. Republicans have more than 50 votes in the Senate. If they want to call Hunter Biden or whoever and make a mockery out of themselves and the proceedings, there is nothing stopping them from doing that, and it doesn't depend on Democrats at all.

Moreover, there has been nothing stopping them from doing that since the start. So if they actually wanted to do so, one would think that they would have done so already (hint - they don't actually want that, they are just using it as a scare tactic and to try to distract from the facts of the case about what Trump did).

Moreover, they can also call whoever they want to testify before committees. There is nothing stopping Lindsay Graham or whatever committee chairs from calling whoever they want to testify before Congress.

None of that depends on Democrats or Democratic votes, and the idea that it does is ludicrous.

They are against it. But... The idea is that if there will be any witnesses, then both sides should be able to choose whoever they think are relevant.

For the sake of fairness, of course 

They have a majority in the Senate. They can do whatever they want, the Dems have no way to stop it. If they want to call Hunter Biden + John Bolton to testify, they can do that and there is nothing the Dems can do to stop them. They don't need any assistance from the Dems to do so, they have the majority and can do so regardless of whatever the Dems may or may not think about it.

So either let them do that, or let them not. But the idea that it depends on the Dems is absurd.

If the GOP wants to do it, they will, if they don't then they won't - it is entirely up to them.

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

So I'm assuming this means McConnell will just allow witnesses now without a vote, to save face? Good I guess?

Can he do that without a vote? I thought the rules required a vote on witnesses/docs in general first.

If he doesn't have the votes though, he may just have the whole GOP vote for witnesses/documents. That way the more vulnerable Republicans from competitive states can't be singled out for attack for their votes.

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

Good for Romney. He is a decent and honorable man. The GOP, and certainly the nation, would be better off if they were led by him rather than Trump.

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

Trump Jr. is very butthurt over Romney's vote today. 

https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/1225140190920019968?s=20

Mitt could feasibly do well as an independent.

If Bloomberg is the nominee and it is Bloomberg (D) vs Trump (R) vs Romney (I) I would seriously consider voting for Romney - though I don't agree with him on just about anything, that would arguably be the best vote for the country long term in that case.

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

"Mr. Romney"

...

"Guilty"

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

Really funny how liberals love republicans when they are not running for the presidency aymore

I don't think liberals love Mitt Romney, at least I certainly don't. However, I can recognize and respect that he chose to put country over party, and that this was not an easy thing for him to do. He had every reason in terms of incentives to do otherwise. This demonstrates that on a fundamental level, Romney is a decent and honorable Senator, and history will remember him as such.

If you can't understand the difference between that and "loving" Romney, all that shows is the fact that you don't understand the notion that doing the right thing for the country can be more important than doing the right thing for one's political party. All the worse for you - and unfortunately, all the worse for the country.

And no, it is not funny. Much less "really funny." It is very serious, because it goes to the very root of the sickness that is ailing American governance.

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

So the next time Trump does something to get himself impeached, will we resume in this thread, or start a new megathread? This one is getting fairly close to 80 pages, but I think it still has at least a bit of juice left in it.

?