Clinton says "nobody likes" Sanders and calls him a "career politician"

[GeneralMacArthur]

Nobody likes him, nobody wants to work with him, he got nothing done.  He was a career politician. It’s all just baloney and I feel so bad that people got sucked into it.

Which part of this are you guys saying is a lie?  Aren't you supposed to be proud that nobody likes him?  Isn't it supposed to be a plus that nobody wants to work with him?  Isn't the reason you guys have to go around calling him the "Amendment King" precisely because he didn't get anything done?

I mean can you tell me which congressman was his best friend in the House?  Which senator was his best friend in the Senate?  Even now, Bernie doesn't have any friends in the Senate -- just a handful of representatives like Ro Khanna who are using his movement to bolster their own careers.

I mean don't take it from me, take it from Barney Frank, author of Dodd-Frank, the kind of substantive Wall Street regulations bill that Bernie couldn't write in his wildest dreams:

“He screams and hollers,” Rep. Joe Moakley (D-Mass.) said… “but he is all alone…” Said Rep. Barney Frank, in ’91: “Bernie alienates his natural allies. His holier-than-thou attitude — saying in a very loud voice he is smarter than everyone else and purer than everyone else — really undercuts his effectiveness.”

has any of this changed in the last 30 years?  Has he become any less holier-than-thou?  Is he not still walking around saying he's smarter and purer than everyone else?

[GeneralMacArthur]

On the subject of Bernie "campaigning" for Hillary, there aren't many videos of it on YouTube, but I managed to find one.  Bernie starts at around the 40 minute mark.  You can watch for yourself and see just how valuable his "campaigning" for her was, how "devoted" he was, how much he prioritized helping her get elected:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Sxy5Plw9yQ

For instance, here's a direct quote from the video:

In America today, we have millions of working people, working for wages that are too damn low.  You can do the arithmetic as well as I can, and figure out that if someone is making the federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour, that person can not make it economically.  Not at 7.25, not at 9, not at 10 bucks an hour.  What Secretary Clinton knows, what you know, and what I know, and what Donald Trump does not know, is that we have got to raise the minimum wage to a living wage.  In my view, that minimum wage should be 15 dollars an hour.  And that is what the Democratic platform calls for.

Wow, such a ringing endorsement.  "Hillary Clinton agrees with me that the minimum wage should be higher.  Of course, I think it should be $15, but grumble grumble whatever"

[GeneralMacArthur]

The Bernie Bros don't seem to realize that like 70+% of the party still likes Hillary.  They're all trapped in their MAGA/Rose Twitter world where the Democratic Party is evil, Hillary is horrible, everyone hates her.  And they've become detached from the real world, where people still like her and care what she has to say.

That was the fun thing about her attacking Gabbard.  All the folks who like Gabbard* were so sure that this was a big victory for them.  "Nobody likes Hillary!  We want her to hate us!  She's a loser and she was wrong about everything!"  In reality, not only do Democrats like Hillary and listen to her, but the fight exposed the Gabbardites for what they are -- basically contrarians soaked in Russian propaganda and the worldview of the MAGA cult.

Then there are also people like my family, who never really cared much for Hillary but feel sorry for her and that the election was unfairly ripped away from her.  They certainly don't like to see the "Hillary is a loser!  Everyone hates her!  Shut the f**k up, bitch!" kind of language that Scott and friends are using in that other thread.  And they'll see that it's entirely Bernie Bros saying these kinds of things and think "I don't want to be associated with those hateful people."



*as we saw in the "rank candidates" thread, it's only Bernie supporters who like Gabbard, and 95% of other posters had her ranked as the worst candidate

[GeneralMacArthur]

On the subject of Bernie "campaigning" for Hillary, there aren't many videos of it on YouTube, but I managed to find one.  Bernie starts at around the 40 minute mark.  You can watch for yourself and see just how valuable his "campaigning" for her was, how "devoted" he was, how much he prioritized helping her get elected:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Sxy5Plw9yQ

For instance, here's a direct quote from the video:

In America today, we have millions of working people, working for wages that are too damn low.  You can do the arithmetic as well as I can, and figure out that if someone is making the federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour, that person can not make it economically.  Not at 7.25, not at 9, not at 10 bucks an hour.  What Secretary Clinton knows, what you know, and what I know, and what Donald Trump does not know, is that we have got to raise the minimum wage to a living wage.  In my view, that minimum wage should be 15 dollars an hour.  And that is what the Democratic platform calls for.

Wow, such a ringing endorsement.  "Hillary Clinton agrees with me that the minimum wage should be higher.  Of course, I think it should be $15, but grumble grumble whatever"

Short of saying Clinton explicitly was in favor of a $15 minimum wage (which is kinda iffy - see below), I'm not sure what could Sanders could have said. End the paragraph at the living wage bit? Perhaps, though I feel like people would critique Sanders for being too vague in that event.

As a recall correctly from the the April debate in New York, she said that if a $15 minimum wage bill got to her desk, she'd sign it while at the same time saying during her campaign she wanted a $12 minimum wage in her primary platform. So her position on the issue was a bit vague to say the least, especially since as Sanders notes, the Democratic Platform, made up of half Sanders and half Clinton folks IIRC, called for a $15 minimum wage and I don't recall Clinton taking a firm position on the issue in the general. 

"A key difference between Mr. Trump and Secretary Clinton is how they care for working people.  Mr. Trump believes, businesses should be able to take advantage of you, to abuse you, to make you work long hours for low wages.  Secretary Clinton has a different perspective.  Perhaps, this perspective is informed by her own upbringing and the magnificent work she has done to help poor communities.  Mrs. Clinton believes that no American should work all day only to go home and starve.  That is why she wants to raise the minimum wage to a living wage.  And if you are someone working long hours for low wages, when you get in that voting booth, you should think long and hard about who really wants to protect your interests.  And it is not a corrupt, lying, fake billionaire who believes corporations should have no rules!"

See the difference?  Lots of praise for Clinton, explicit endorsement of her position on the issue, urging people to vote for her, no talking about himself.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Look at y'all acting like she came out and gave a speech on this or something.

They're making a movie about her.  They did an interview with her for it and asked her the question and she gave an honest answer.  So why blame her for the timing.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Are the Clinton haters really going to the same strategy they used with Tulsi where they remove the context of her statement?

She clearly meant that nobody in Congress likes him.  Obviously his wife likes him.

[GeneralMacArthur]

I'll note that this thread has like 100+ replies and I can't find any posts disputing the actual substance of what Hillary said:

A) Sanders has (virtually) no friends in the Senate, and never has

B) He's never accomplished anything of note

C) He is a "career politician"

Instead it's six pages of "shut your f***ing mouth, bitch, you lost and everyone hates you."

[GeneralMacArthur]

I'll note that this thread has like 100+ replies and I can't find any posts disputing the actual substance of what Hillary said:

A) Sanders has (virtually) no friends in the Senate, and never has

B) He's never accomplished anything of note

C) He is a "career politician"

Instead it's six pages of "shut your f***ing mouth, bitch, you lost and everyone hates you."

I can just point out that Sanders has won an election without having an office gift-wrapped for him. I also recall him working with McCain on the VA committee to get things done. He's also got more roll call amendments passed in a Rspublican congress than anyone else. I also severely question the judgement of anyone who voted for the Iraq War.

Clinton and her supporters need to stop rehashing 2016 just because Sanders had the sheer gall to run and didn't kiss her feet on request.

Literally the only part of that that's relevant to what Clinton actually said is the part about amendments and the bill he did with McCain.

That one bill is the only piece of legislation he's passed, in 40 years in Congress, that wasn't naming a post office.  Must have been a great bill though right?  No.  It's super basic and not even one page long.  You can read it for yourself: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/BILLS-113s893enr/pdf/BILLS-113s893enr.pdf

As for his amendments, can you name the best amendment he's written?  Let's say in the last ten years to keep it simple.  From what I've seen, all his amendments are either nitpicks or pointless mission statements, nothing that actually accomplished anything.

So while I respect that you're the first person in this thread to actually dispute what Clinton said, I don't think using a one-page bill and a bunch of do-nothing amendments as evidence of Sanders' productivity is a very good argument.

[GeneralMacArthur]

I'll note that this thread has like 100+ replies and I can't find any posts disputing the actual substance of what Hillary said:

A) Sanders has (virtually) no friends in the Senate, and never has

B) He's never accomplished anything of note

C) He is a "career politician"

Instead it's six pages of "shut your f***ing mouth, bitch, you lost and everyone hates you."

I see you missed my reply on the first page which has 9 recommendations

"Nobody likes him, nobody wants to work with him, he got nothing done," Clinton told the Hollywood Reporter as a part of the upcoming Hulu documentary on the former secretary of state. "He was a career politician. It's all just baloney and I feel so bad that people got sucked into it."

I see no lies here.

He's part of the Senate Democratic Caucus leadership team and was chairman of the Veteran's Affairs Committee where he worked with John McCain to co-author a bill on veteran's health, so it's obviously untrue that no-one likes Sanders or wants to work with him. Clinton is projecting her own feelings onto Sanders' colleagues in the Senate with whom he gets on fairly well.

https://twitter.com/Matt_Kiser/status/1104816694738984960?s=20

That story just has people saying they're impressed with his campaign.  None of them endorsed him except his Vermont co-senator.

The one-page VA bill was addressed above.

[GeneralMacArthur]

That story just has people saying they're impressed with his campaign.  None of them endorsed him except his Vermont co-senator.

The one-page VA bill was addressed above.

Clinton's claim was that "Nobody likes him, nobody wants to work with him." This is demonstrably untrue, Sanders has a role on the Senate Democratic Caucus leadership team!

“There was a question in my mind of whether he could get back up on the bicycle after four years. But he’s off to a solid start,” said Sen. Dick Durbin of Illinois, the second-ranking Democrat and a staunch Clinton supporter in 2016. “I know Bernie, I’ve worked with Bernie. I understand him. People have images of him, which may be different than mine. But if you’re asking me about Bernie Sanders vs. Donald Trump? No problem.”

“I certainly hear out in the political world a lot of concern [about Sanders]. I don’t hear a lot of that internally,” one Democratic senator said. Democrats “look at him differently because he’s not running against Hillary Clinton. He’s a major player in the party in a way that he wasn’t [in 2016]. He looked like a quixotic candidate. It’s not like people are sitting around thinking about how to keep the nomination from him” this time.

And when Clinton isn't ready to say she would support him against Trump:

All other [than Manchin] Democrats interviewed for this story said they would support Sanders if he becomes the nominee.

If Democratic Senators can say that, why can't Clinton? If her rationale for refusing to is because his Senate colleagues don't like Sanders, why are they more willing to say they would endorse Sanders as the nominee than she is?

Clinton is letting bitter feelings over the 2016 campaign cloud her judgement.

I don't actually know what the question was that prompted Clinton to answer that but she should be clear that she will support Sanders over Trump if he is the nominee in 2020.  That's a position I've consistently held on this board and I fully agree with anyone criticizing Clinton for that statement.

Bernie being on various committees is just a function of his tenure, not of his effectiveness or people actually wanting to work with him.

And yes, of course other senators will occasionally be gracious when asked by the media about him and say nice things.  That's just basic Senate collegiality.  You'll note that Dick Durbin hasn't actually endorsed Sanders or moved to work on any legislation with him.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Actually, now that I've found the transcript, I see the question was asking Clinton whether she would commit to campaigning for him, and I think her non-committal answer to that was appropriate.

[GeneralMacArthur]

You were literally #NeverWarren not even a week ago.

I have no idea who this random Donut Twitter guy is but if he's actually posted anywhere that he wouldn't vote for Sanders in a general, f*** him.

But I don't see that, all I see is him calling the Sanders people out for accusing everyone else of not supporting Sanders in a GE when he's under attack, then turning around and saying "I'd never vote for Biden" or "I'd never vote for Warren."

Just go look at the presidential preferences thread.  I think every single person there who says they "wouldn't vote for X if nominated" is a Sanders supporter.

[GeneralMacArthur]

You were literally #NeverWarren not even a week ago.

You literally acknowledged a week ago I wasn't #NeverWarren, you lying sack of ****.

Ah you're right, I'm misremembering.

Hard to keep track of which Bernie Bros were explicitly #NeverWarren and which just called her a lying bitch and the worst person ever and swore they'd never forgive her.

[GeneralMacArthur]

The career politicians criticism, used against anyone, has never been a concern that resonated with me either. I don't care what a politician's background is, for the most part, as long as I believe in what they want to accomplish and pursue. Clinton was a career politicians for a while too, so again, there's a real lack of self-awareness here.

I think the context of that quote was saying he's a career politician but he can't get anything done or make any friends.

It's not criticizing him for being a career politician, it's saying if you're gonna be a career politician you should at least have one single friend in Congress, or one single piece of meaningful legislation.  Sanders has neither.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Y'all gonna hate this tweet...

https://twitter.com/kaivanshroff/status/1219664317806600192?s=21

[GeneralMacArthur]

I'll note that this thread has like 100+ replies and I can't find any posts disputing the actual substance of what Hillary said:

A) Sanders has (virtually) no friends in the Senate, and never has

B) He's never accomplished anything of note

C) He is a "career politician"

Instead it's six pages of "shut your f***ing mouth, bitch, you lost and everyone hates you."

I see you missed my reply on the first page which has 9 recommendations

"Nobody likes him, nobody wants to work with him, he got nothing done," Clinton told the Hollywood Reporter as a part of the upcoming Hulu documentary on the former secretary of state. "He was a career politician. It's all just baloney and I feel so bad that people got sucked into it."

I see no lies here.

He's part of the Senate Democratic Caucus leadership team and was chairman of the Veteran's Affairs Committee where he worked with John McCain to co-author a bill on veteran's health, so it's obviously untrue that no-one likes Sanders or wants to work with him. Clinton is projecting her own feelings onto Sanders' colleagues in the Senate with whom he gets on fairly well.

https://twitter.com/Matt_Kiser/status/1104816694738984960?s=20

That story just has people saying they're impressed with his campaign.  None of them endorsed him except his Vermont co-senator.

The one-page VA bill was addressed above.

Actually Leahy endorsed Clinton. It was Jeff Merkley who endorsed Sanders.

Oh I was talking about this cycle.  Basically this article has a handful of senators saying nice things about him in 2017 or whenever, but none of them actually endorsed him in 2020.

Surprised Leahy endorsed Clinton in 2016, must have been early because usually senators automatically get the endorsement of their other state senator (assuming same party).

[GeneralMacArthur]

Note that it has now been several days since Clinton alleged that of Sanders senate colleagues, "nobody likes him."

Yet not a single senator has stepped forward to say "hey I actually do like Bernie Sanders."

And the campaign hasn't tried to refute the actual statement, perhaps by pointing out some senators that do like Bernie Sanders.  Instead, in typical Sanders campaign fashion, they've taken it out of context to pretend Hillary said that nobody at all like Sanders, which is obviously untrue and easy to mock.

The reason they had to do that is because it's true.  Nobody in the senate likes Bernie Sanders.  Maybe Elizabeth Warren used to but now he's alienated her as well.