Do you support Race base AA

[Nym90]

I vote no.

[Nym90]

Here's something to ponder....

There is no scientific definition of race. It is entirely self-identification. If I decide to say I'm black, no one can tell me I'm not.

I don't know if anyone has ever thought of that before, but if the word gets out, people might start "becoming" black just to get the race-based preference. There would be absolutely nothing that could be done about this legally.

Sort of emphasizes how it doesn't make sense to give a preference on the basis of something for which there is no scientific or biological definition. Not only is the concept of race entirely a construct of the human mind, your OWN race is entirely within your mind too!

[Nym90]

I realize race exists as a social construct. My point is that it seems rather shaky legally to give people a preference based on self-identification!

Tweed, I don't consider myself black, no, but as there is no definition of how much pigment one must have in one's skin in order to be black, I could be black if I wanted to be. My point was that you get to choose your own race, at least from a purely legal standpoint.

[Nym90]

Yes, good points.

In order to defend race-based AA you have to prove that there is discrimination on the basis of race and race alone, independent of any other factors. I don't believe that's the case. Certainly there is racial discrimination, but I think that there is far more discrimination on the basis of income. Since blacks have lower average incomes than whites, it ends up appearing as though blacks are suffering discrimination.

Yes, there is still some racial discrimination, but there is far more discrimination on the basis of income. Rich black people have a huge advantage over poor whites.

[Nym90]

I'm an alumnus of U of Michigan.

Yes, I agree that the policy should have been stricken down. It was way too biased.

Of course, being an athlete got you a 20 point bonus too....universities are just expected to favor athletes though I guess.

[Nym90]

Sadly, yes Flyers2004....that's why the basketball players all major in kinesiology or some such....

[Nym90]

Greater minority representation is important, absolutely. I support the concept of increasing diversity in the workplace, but I think that diversity has to do with a lot of other factors other than race.

I don't feel that it is right to just assume that because someone is of a particular race (which can't even be scientifically defined anyway!) that they will automatically contribute more value to the organization.

Yes, there should be other factors taken into account besides just raw test scores. People can't be assessed by numbers alone. I don't mind taking race into account as one of a multitude of factors when evaluating someone, but I still feel that promoting people of lower incomes into higher positions to help reduce inequality is a far better goal for the betterment of society as a whole.

I guess it boils down to who you really feel is being discriminated against most, and I think that far and away the most discrimination in our society is in favor of the wealthy and against the poor. If you disagree and feel that blacks are discriminated against more than the poor, I respect that, but my experience in life hasn't shown that to be the case for me.

[Nym90]

Agreed, NickG, but there are many other factors to consider besides just race when it comes to diversity.

It's a shame that colleges can't have a face-to-face interview with each and every applicant...I feel that's the only way to truly get a good grasp of someone's character, and of what they'll bring to the organization. People can't be judged fairly by anything other than honest in-person interaction.

[Nym90]

Well, since blacks tend to have lower average incomes than whites, class-based AA would still disproportionately benefit blacks. So I would think you wouldn't have any problem reaching the "critical mass".