Taxation II
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  Taxation II
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Poll
Question: which income tax would you prefer?
#1
progressive
 
#2
regressive
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 21

Author Topic: Taxation II  (Read 1757 times)
MaC
Milk_and_cereal
Junior Chimp
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« on: March 15, 2006, 11:51:00 PM »

silly Tweed.  Only those who answer option 2 in this poll hate the poor.
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Undisguised Sockpuppet
Straha
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« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2006, 09:59:52 AM »

progressive
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Speed of Sound
LiberalPA
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« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2006, 10:39:01 AM »

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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2006, 10:44:46 AM »

What's so bad about incentivizing the poors by having their taxes go down as they earn more? Wink
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Undisguised Sockpuppet
Straha
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« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2006, 01:20:29 PM »

What's so bad about incentivizing the poors by having their taxes go down as they earn more? Wink
everything. They're not supposed to get ideas of rising above their station.
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© tweed
Miamiu1027
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« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2006, 02:41:09 PM »

silly Tweed.  Only those who answer option 2 in this poll hate the poor.

A self-aware poorhater!  I respect that.
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MaC
Milk_and_cereal
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2006, 04:44:56 PM »

Never said I support a regressive tax.  I think people who support progressive taxes are poor haters too, BTW.  Why keep the poor down by discouraging them to move to a higher bracket?
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2006, 09:21:05 AM »

Never said I support a regressive tax.  I think people who support progressive taxes are poor haters too, BTW.  Why keep the poor down by discouraging them to move to a higher bracket?

Wow, you're dumb.

You'd rather make $20,000 a year than $300,000 a year because of the tax bracket?  Of course not.  Nobody would, and no poor actually is 'discouraged' by moving to a higher income bracket just because their tax percentage will be higher.
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dazzleman
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« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2006, 09:40:13 AM »

Never said I support a regressive tax.  I think people who support progressive taxes are poor haters too, BTW.  Why keep the poor down by discouraging them to move to a higher bracket?

Wow, you're dumb.

You'd rather make $20,000 a year than $300,000 a year because of the tax bracket?  Of course not.  Nobody would, and no poor actually is 'discouraged' by moving to a higher income bracket just because their tax percentage will be higher.

The issue here, though, Boss Tweed, is that if incremental income is too highly taxed, people will not make the effort to reach that higher level of income, and potential economic production will have been lost.

Given Americans' obsession with work, that may not be such a bad thing.  But that is a larger question.

And since when have you started acting like Jfern, making personal attacks on people for no good reason?  Are you hung over this morning or something? Tongue
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2006, 10:55:48 AM »

Never said I support a regressive tax.  I think people who support progressive taxes are poor haters too, BTW.  Why keep the poor down by discouraging them to move to a higher bracket?

Wow, you're dumb.

You'd rather make $20,000 a year than $300,000 a year because of the tax bracket?  Of course not.  Nobody would, and no poor actually is 'discouraged' by moving to a higher income bracket just because their tax percentage will be higher.

The issue here, though, Boss Tweed, is that if incremental income is too highly taxed, people will not make the effort to reach that higher level of income, and potential economic production will have been lost.

Given Americans' obsession with work, that may not be such a bad thing.  But that is a larger question.

And since when have you started acting like Jfern, making personal attacks on people for no good reason?  Are you hung over this morning or something? Tongue

Tax increments will never, ever reach a level in which who earn more money by earning less.

I hope that makes sense.
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dazzleman
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« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2006, 10:58:39 AM »


Tax increments will never, ever reach a level in which who earn more money by earning less.

I hope that makes sense.

No, but the ADDITIONAL amount that they make over a lower earner, after taxes, may not be worth additional effort required to earn that additional money.

I hope that makes sense, though it may not to you since you're not terribly familiar with working.
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2006, 10:59:32 AM »


Tax increments will never, ever reach a level in which who earn more money by earning less.

I hope that makes sense.

No, but the ADDITIONAL amount that they make over a lower earner, after taxes, may not be worth additional effort required to earn that additional money.

I hope that makes sense, though it may not to you since you're not terribly familiar with working.

I understand what you are saying.  I just don't see a progressive taxation system convincing people to make less money.
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dazzleman
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« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2006, 11:07:04 AM »


Tax increments will never, ever reach a level in which who earn more money by earning less.

I hope that makes sense.

No, but the ADDITIONAL amount that they make over a lower earner, after taxes, may not be worth additional effort required to earn that additional money.

I hope that makes sense, though it may not to you since you're not terribly familiar with working.

I understand what you are saying.  I just don't see a progressive taxation system convincing people to make less money.

It's a matter of degree.  If it's mildly to moderately progressive, probably not.

But if it's steeply progressive -- such as a top marginal rate of 70% or more, as an example, then it very well might. 

Contrary to what people like opebo say, there is some relationship between earnings and how much effort you put into your career, and many people will ask why they should put that effort in with such a low return.

As I said earlier, in many cases, this would not be such a bad thing, since Americans are obsessed with work, and we think people should be ashamed if they're not busy or working every second.  That lifestyle is not for me.
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2006, 11:08:42 AM »


Tax increments will never, ever reach a level in which who earn more money by earning less.

I hope that makes sense.

No, but the ADDITIONAL amount that they make over a lower earner, after taxes, may not be worth additional effort required to earn that additional money.

I hope that makes sense, though it may not to you since you're not terribly familiar with working.

I understand what you are saying.  I just don't see a progressive taxation system convincing people to make less money.

It's a matter of degree.  If it's mildly to moderately progressive, probably not.

But if it's steeply progressive -- such as a top marginal rate of 70% or more, as an example, then it very well might. 

Contrary to what people like opebo say, there is some relationship between earnings and how much effort you put into your career, and many people will ask why they should put that effort in with such a low return.

As I said earlier, in many cases, this would not be such a bad thing, since Americans are obsessed with work, and we think people should be ashamed if they're not busy or working every second.  That lifestyle is not for me.

I've never advocated a 70% top rate.  I think the highest bracker should be around 45%, 50% tops.
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dazzleman
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« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2006, 12:54:21 PM »


I've never advocated a 70% top rate.  I think the highest bracker should be around 45%, 50% tops.

That makes you a Reagan conservative, at least in part.  Reagan and Congress took the top rate down initially from 70% to something like 50%.

Then, in the 1986 tax reform that eliminated a lot of deductions and tax shelters, he took the nominal marginal rate down to 28%.
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BRTD
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« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2006, 01:23:11 PM »

The reason I have no incentive to work so hard to get to higher brackets is because I have nothing to do with all that money. For example, if I made $30k, pretty typical, I'd be making twice as much as I do now. What am I going to do with all that money? I already make enough to provide for my rent and food, and still have plenty left over to buy limited edition records, alcohol, video games and tip strippers. With twice as much, I'd be making almost another $1000 a month that would all go to vinyl, drinking, video games, strippers, etc. Even I would have a tough time spending an extra thousand a month on just that! Now if I lived in Minneapolis, my current $425/month apartment would probably be around $650/month, and the rest of my expenses would be slightly higher, but even there, I could more than afford all I want and then some at $30k a year, and judging from the employment newsletters I've looked at, there's plenty of jobs there just like the one I have now but with higher wages adjusted for the cost of living that still don't even come close to $30k a year. So why would I need much more than $30k a year? The only things I can see you doing then is crap like buying a nice new expensive car when you can get a car for 1/10th the price that does the purpose of a car just as good (get from point A to point B), or buy a disgusting McMansion in the suburbs. No way, I'm ever doing that. There's simply nothing to be gained from being in a higher bracket.
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MaC
Milk_and_cereal
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« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2006, 04:38:36 PM »

Never said I support a regressive tax.  I think people who support progressive taxes are poor haters too, BTW.  Why keep the poor down by discouraging them to move to a higher bracket?

Wow, you're dumb.

You'd rather make $20,000 a year than $300,000 a year because of the tax bracket?  Of course not.  Nobody would, and no poor actually is 'discouraged' by moving to a higher income bracket just because their tax percentage will be higher.

You seem rather dumb to think that someone could move from making $20k to $300k per year.  Take this situation.  If I'm making 48,000 and pay 21% tax or make 50,000 and pay 25% I'm losing money by getting the raise.  You must take some sick kind of joy in keeping people down.

The reason I have no incentive to work so hard to get to higher brackets is because I have nothing to do with all that money. For example, if I made $30k, pretty typical, I'd be making twice as much as I do now. What am I going to do with all that money? I already make enough to provide for my rent and food, and still have plenty left over to buy limited edition records, alcohol, video games and tip strippers. With twice as much, I'd be making almost another $1000 a month that would all go to vinyl, drinking, video games, strippers, etc. Even I would have a tough time spending an extra thousand a month on just that! Now if I lived in Minneapolis, my current $425/month apartment would probably be around $650/month, and the rest of my expenses would be slightly higher, but even there, I could more than afford all I want and then some at $30k a year, and judging from the employment newsletters I've looked at, there's plenty of jobs there just like the one I have now but with higher wages adjusted for the cost of living that still don't even come close to $30k a year. So why would I need much more than $30k a year? The only things I can see you doing then is crap like buying a nice new expensive car when you can get a car for 1/10th the price that does the purpose of a car just as good (get from point A to point B), or buy a disgusting McMansion in the suburbs. No way, I'm ever doing that. There's simply nothing to be gained from being in a higher bracket.

Granted there's no reason for you to get rich, but think about saving for retirement, also if you want to start a family-your kid's college plans.
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jfern
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« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2006, 04:41:51 PM »
« Edited: March 20, 2006, 04:43:28 PM by jfern »


You seem rather dumb to think that someone could move from making $20k to $300k per year.  Take this situation.  If I'm making 48,000 and pay 21% tax or make 50,000 and pay 25% I'm losing money by getting the raise.  You must take some sick kind of joy in keeping people down.
I suggest you learn how tax brackets work before you go mindlessly bashing taxes any more.
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jokerman
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« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2006, 04:46:25 PM »


You seem rather dumb to think that someone could move from making $20k to $300k per year.  Take this situation.  If I'm making 48,000 and pay 21% tax or make 50,000 and pay 25% I'm losing money by getting the raise.  You must take some sick kind of joy in keeping people down.
I suggest you learn how tax brackets work before you go mindlessly bashing taxes any more.

Agreed.  M&C, when you move up a tax bracket it is the money past the original bracket that is getting taxed the new rate.  You won't lose any money by moving up brackets.
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