True Democrat v President Porce

[True Democrat]

I am suing President Ebowed because I believe that his executive order, which cancelled my registration in Puerto Rico, was unconstitutional.  I'm still looking for a lawyer, but if I can't find one, I'll just try myself (which won't be very good).

[Gabu]

I thought you were in your own independent country, which would kind of make it so you couldn't vote in our country's elections, anyway.

[True Democrat]

I thought you were in your own independent country, which would kind of make it so you couldn't vote in our country's elections, anyway.

Well, according to the Atlasian government, I'm still registered in Washington, and I want to show the world how imperialist the Atlasian government is being.

[True Democrat]

Let us first review President Ebowed',s executive order:

Executive Order

Registrations in Puerto Rico are no longer allowed and are not to be permitted by the Department of Forum Affairs.  The sixth amendment states: "In registration, the person must state his name and State of fantasy residence."  As Puerto Rico is currently not a "state of fantasy residence", any registrations in it are invalid, and any persons who registered in Puerto Rico should have their state of residence reverted to their previous registration (in True Democrat's case, Washington, though he is free to remain in his self-founded Puerto Rico Liberation Party).

Let's also take a look at the 6th Amendment:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

So, Amendment VI states that a person can only become a registered voter if he states his name and State of fantasy residence.  We can assume that voter in this sense refers to federal elections, as this is the federal constitution.  However, by moving to Puerto Rico, it is not my intention to become a registered voter, but instead only to remain a citizen of Atlasia as Puerto Rico cannot vote in federal elections anyway.  By moving to Puerto Rico, I admit in giving up my ability to vote, but not my right to be an Atlasian citizen.

Furthermore, under Article VI, Section Two, the Atlasian government cannot  deprive a person of property, and by revoking my right to live in Puerto Rico, an Atlasian commonwealth and the property of Atlasia, the government is revoking my right to property.  Also, under Section Nine, it states that the government cannot take my private property, which they are clearly doing.

So unless the government wants to revoke my citizenship to Atlasia (which is not legal), I have the right to register as a citizen in Puerto Rico.

I ask this court to do not only what is constitutional, but also what is right and rule in my favor.

[Emsworth]

I do not see how the President's executive order prevents you from pretending that you live in Puerto Rico. The order only states that "registrations in [Puerto Rico] are invalid." Anyone can "live" in one place, but be "registered" in a different one--for example, someone might live (either in reality or in fantasy) in Pennsylvania, but be officially registered in Louisiana.

The executive order only relates to the place where one is registered. It pays no attention to the place where one actually or imaginarily lives.

[True Democrat]

I do not see how the President's executive order prevents you from pretending that you live in Puerto Rico. The order only states that "registrations in [Puerto Rico] are invalid." Anyone can "live" in one place, but be "registered" in a different one--for example, someone might live (either in reality or in fantasy) in Pennsylvania, but be officially registered in Louisiana.

The executive order only relates to the place where one is registered. It pays no attention to the place where one actually or imaginarily lives.

Are you going to recuse youself in the case now?

[Emsworth]

Are you going to recuse youself in the case now?

Why would I do that? Surely, I have the right to ask questions during the arguments.

[True Democrat]

Are you going to recuse youself in the case now?

Why would I do that? Surely, I have the right to ask questions during the arguments.

Sorry about that

I do not see how the President's executive order prevents you from pretending that you live in Puerto Rico. The order only states that "registrations in [Puerto Rico] are invalid." Anyone can "live" in one place, but be "registered" in a different one--for example, someone might live (either in reality or in fantasy) in Pennsylvania, but be officially registered in Louisiana.

The executive order only relates to the place where one is registered. It pays no attention to the place where one actually or imaginarily lives.

Ok, well the intention of President Ebowed was revoke even the right for me to maintain permanent residence in Puerto Rico.  After declaring the right of Puerto Rican autonomy, the President immediately revoked my registration in Puerto Rico,  This was a clear attempt to try to stop my liberation from taking place.  The part I'm trying to prove unconstitutional is that I believe I have the right to be registered as a citizen of Atlasia and have permanent residence in Puerto Rico, even I am not allowed to vote.  The sixth amendment only restricts where one can register if they want to vote, not where they want to live.

[True Democrat]

Quick question, who from the government is going to post the opposing argument?

[Ebowed]

Quick question, who from the government is going to post the opposing argument?

I will be representing myself.

[Ebowed]

So, Amendment VI states that a person can only become a registered voter if he states his name and State of fantasy residence.  We can assume that voter in this sense refers to federal elections, as this is the federal constitution.  However, by moving to Puerto Rico, it is not my intention to become a registered voter, but instead only to remain a citizen of Atlasia as Puerto Rico cannot vote in federal elections anyway.  By moving to Puerto Rico, I admit in giving up my ability to vote, but not my right to be an Atlasian citizen.

I have to wonder, frankly, why you are filing a lawsuit if you, in effect, want to deregister.  If you no longer wish to remain a registered voter, what reason do you have to remain an Atlasian citizen?  Unless you move to an actual region, you will lose your status as a registered voter after two federal elections anyway.  If the Constitution provides for your ability to live in a territory of Atlasia, why does it base automatic removal of citizenship on your votes in federal elections?  Your argument is essentially that the Constitution is inconsistent on the issue, which is not an opinion I hold, and I'm not sure how anyone could hold it unless they were stretched for a reason to file a lawsuit.

Furthermore, under Article VI, Section Two, the Atlasian government cannot  deprive a person of property, and by revoking my right to live in Puerto Rico, an Atlasian commonwealth and the property of Atlasia, the government is revoking my right to property.  Also, under Section Nine, it states that the government cannot take my private property, which they are clearly doing.

I will simply advise the Court to note the inherent contradictions in this section of the plaintiff's argument.  First, he states that Puerto Rico is the property of Atlasia (which, while irrelevant to the specifics of this case, appears to be a retraction of previous statements that he is the legally elected Governor of an independent Puerto Rico).  But he goes on to state that by stopping him from registering in a territory that is not part of any region, the government is denying him his right to property.  This is not the case.  No law prohibits True Democrat from owning property throughout Puerto Rico, only a prohibition of him being a registered voter in the state.  The claim, then, that my executive order is unconstitutional is, in my opinion, unfounded.  On a purely common sense level, the plaintiff's argument holds no weight: his broad and far-reaching interpretation of the property rights protection in Article VI, Section 2, if upheld by the court, would essentially allow any person to live wherever they want on the basis of property rights, regardless of environmental laws or military boundaries that may exist in any area.

You mention of Article VI, Section 9.  It states: "Private property shall not be taken for public use, without just compensation."  The executive order has not attempted to take your property in Puerto Rico for public use, only stop you from attempting to have your official federal registration based outside one of the five regions of Atlasia.

My executive order dealt strictly with your residence as defined for official registration purposes, which, from a Constitutional point of view, is the only purpose that matters.  Whatever you believe my motivation to have been in signing the executive order (you stated that it was to "try to stop [your] liberation from taking place"), it is entirely irrelevant for the purposes of Constitutional review by the Court, and I don't appreciate that you have attempted to use it as grounds for the Court to declare my executive order unconstitutional.

My argument can be summed up in the following: the plaintiff alleges that, through my executive order, the government is denying him property rights, and asks for it to be ruled unconstitutional.  I strongly reject this view, and believe it to be a gross misunderstanding of what the executive order actually does, and I believe there is no grounds on which the order should be ruled unconstitutional.

Thank you.

[Gabu]

(post)

[TomC]

Executive Order

Registrations in Puerto Rico are no longer allowed and are not to be permitted by the Department of Forum Affairs.  The sixth amendment states: "In registration, the person must state his name and State of fantasy residence."  As Puerto Rico is currently not a "state of fantasy residence", any registrations in it are invalid, and any persons who registered in Puerto Rico should have their state of residence reverted to their previous registration

I want to make sure I'm understanding the bold part of the executive order. Is the President telling the citizen where he must live or where he must vote?

Also,

I have to wonder, frankly, why you are filing a lawsuit if you, in effect, want to deregister.  If you no longer wish to remain a registered voter, what reason do you have to remain an Atlasian citizen?  Unless you move to an actual region, you will lose your status as a registered voter after two federal elections anyway.  If the Constitution provides for your ability to live in a territory of Atlasia, why does it base automatic removal of citizenship on your votes in federal elections? 

I am unclear as to the President's position on status of citizenship and residence in Puerto Rico. Can True Democrat reside in Puerto Rico and maintain all the rights and protections of citizenship other than voting? Or by giving up the right to vote in federal elections, does he automatically give up things like protections under the bill of rights? When he is asked why would he care about citizenship if he can't vote, I get the feeling you aren't sure that he does retain other aspects of citizenship in Atlasia. Does he in your opinion, Mr. President?

[Ebowed]

and any persons who registered in Puerto Rico should have their state of residence reverted to their previous registration

I want to make sure I'm understanding the bold part of the executive order. Is the President telling the citizen where he must live or where he must vote?

The purpose of the executive order was to prohibit registrations outside of any state in Atlasia (the District of Columbia excepted, as Article IV, Section 4, Clause 5 states that it should be treated as a state for redistricting purposes, and is also considered to be a member of the Mideast Region).  I stated in my argument that the "executive order dealt strictly with [the] residence as defined for official registration purposes, which, from a Constitutional point of view, is the only purpose that matters," so in other words, I am saying that True Democrat cannot register to vote outside of any of the 50 states of Atlasia or the District of Columbia.  As Puerto Rico has no voting status in federal elections whatsoever, the plaintiff's argument that he has a constitutional right to live there while losing his status as a registered voter will open up a can of worms if upheld.  People could attempt to register in provinces of Canada or states in Mexico where they could not vote, and would be officially deregistered after two election cycles.  Why should the Department of Forum Affairs be required to acknowledge such registrations, and what Constitutional basis is there for the Department to do so?

I am unclear as to the President's position on status of citizenship and residence in Puerto Rico. Can True Democrat reside in Puerto Rico and maintain all the rights and protections of citizenship other than voting? Or by giving up the right to vote in federal elections, does he automatically give up things like protections under the bill of rights? When he is asked why would he care about citizenship if he can't vote, I get the feeling you aren't sure that he does retain other aspects of citizenship in Atlasia. Does he in your opinion, Mr. President?

It depends on the various restrictions and boundaries in any given part of Puerto Rico, of course.  The plaintiff argues that since Puerto Rico is owned by Atlasia, and since the Constitution protects property rights, my executive order is illegally taking away these rights.  As I noted, this argument is absurd: if a law were passed that prohibited people from living inside of a nuclear waste dump, would the plaintiff argue that the prohibition of living in said area is an invasion of property rights?  I asked him why he would care about citizenship when he can't vote for purely rhetorical purposes, and the point still stands.  The plaintiff is seeking Court action because he wants to, in effect, deregister while maintaining an official registration from Puerto Rico.  F.L. 11-1 already allows the plaintiff the ability to deregister.  As far as the federal government is concerned, in accordance with the executive order, he remains registered in Washington, regardless of any property he may own in Puerto Rico.  All he needs to do is claim that he wants to be deregistered, keep a Puerto Rico avatar, and his wish is granted.  I don't believe there is any Constitutional basis that could justify out-of-region registrations that would lead to deregistering after two election cycles; it could potentially become an extra burden for the Secretary of Forum Affairs, and make the deregistration process unnecessarily bloated.  Additionally, people who are registered outside of the five regions and therefore cannot vote in federal elections may still be harrassed by PM-crazed candidates for nationwide office, because candidates who usually send private messages to almost every person on the voter rolls, including persons who are legally inactive, are less likely to confirm whether or not a person can actually vote in federal elections due to their registration location.

That said, I think that True Democrat retains the rights guaranteed by the Constitution if he were able to make his official registration based from Puerto Rico, as well as being bound by federal laws and legislation that are written to apply strictly to federal territories (such as F.L. 9-2, Section 3).  But it is his state of registration that matters for the purposes of the Department of Forum Affairs and its voter rolls, and that is what the lawsuit is about, which I believe is not based on sound premises.

[TomC]

Just in case it's not clear, the Court has agreed to officially hear the case. Arguments for both sides have been made, but if either party wishes to add to what's been said, please continue.

[True Democrat]

Ruling?

[TomC]

Yes, sorry for the delay. We are conferring.

[Colin]

President Ebowed if you could, could you please clarify what you stated earlier concerning the citizenship rights of citizens in Puerto Rico under your executive order. Under your order, as you envisioned it, would any Atlasian citizen in Puerto Rico recieve the rights of their state of registration prior to the attempted registration in Puerto Rico or do civil rights guarenteed in the constitution, except for voting and representational rights which are given only to states, not apply in Puerto Rico under these provisions?

[Ebowed]

President Ebowed if you could, could you please clarify what you stated earlier concerning the citizenship rights of citizens in Puerto Rico under your executive order. Under your order, as you envisioned it, would any Atlasian citizen in Puerto Rico recieve the rights of their state of registration prior to the attempted registration in Puerto Rico or do civil rights guarenteed in the constitution, except for voting and representational rights which are given only to states, not apply in Puerto Rico under these provisions?

I'm not entirely sure that I understand the question, but here goes: I don't feel it really matters unless Puerto Rico were an area where persons could actually register to vote in.  I think it's clear that the Constitution intends for the registration process to serve as a purpose to finding out where people will live and what state/region they will be voting in.  As a registration in Puerto Rico, if allowed, would result in an automatic deregistration after two election cycles, I don't see how the Constitution intends for anyone to register there while it is only a territory.  If Puerto Rico became a state people who lived there would certainly be able to enjoy fully the rights guaranteed to them that they would have in any other state, as well as any rights guaranteed by whatever region it is incorporated into.  Currently, if someone were able to live in Puerto Rico for Constitutional registration purposes, I think they would enjoy the rights guaranteed to them by the Constitution, as well as any legislation written specifically to apply to federal territories.  But the short answer is that I don't think they can register there in the first place.

[True Democrat]

Anyone there?

[TomC]

Yes, I've now gotten agreement on the opinion I will post in mere seconds. Thanks for your patience.

[Gabu]

Yes, I've now gotten agreement on the opinion I will post in mere seconds. Thanks for your patience.

I'm going to assume you're writing the opinion while travelling at a speed of roughly 0.99994 c, because this has been an awfully long second.

[True Democrat]

Yes, I've now gotten agreement on the opinion I will post in mere seconds. Thanks for your patience.

I'm going to assume you're writing the opinion while travelling at a speed of roughly 0.99994 c, because this has been an awfully long second.

The opinion is in a different thread.

[Gabu]

Yes, I've now gotten agreement on the opinion I will post in mere seconds. Thanks for your patience.

I'm going to assume you're writing the opinion while travelling at a speed of roughly 0.99994 c, because this has been an awfully long second.

The opinion is in a different thread.

Oh, so it is.

Never mind, return to rest position.