78% of catholics believe McGreevey should receive communion

[Brambila]

Catholics believe in the bible and also the teachings of early church fathers.

[??????????]

Anyhow, I'm catholic and part of the 78% for sure.  "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."  BTW, I was taught in Sunday School that is was illegal to deny any Catholic communion.  So any priest/bishop that does should be punished.

Where is their any such "law". If a person is not living the proper Catholic lifestyle no priest is "required" to give them communion.

[12th Doctor]

Anyhow, I'm catholic and part of the 78% for sure.  "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."  BTW, I was taught in Sunday School that is was illegal to deny any Catholic communion.  So any priest/bishop that does should be punished.

Well, then, you were taught wrongly.  Certainly those who are divorced and remarried can't accept communion, so....

[Brambila]

Anyhow, I'm catholic and part of the 78% for sure.  "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."  BTW, I was taught in Sunday School that is was illegal to deny any Catholic communion.  So any priest/bishop that does should be punished.

That's incorrect. A priest can deny anyone communion if he has reason to do so. The body of Christ can't simply be handed out to anyone. If you're in mortal sin, you can't recieve the grace Christ gives us.

[12th Doctor]

Anyhow, I'm catholic and part of the 78% for sure.  "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."  BTW, I was taught in Sunday School that is was illegal to deny any Catholic communion.  So any priest/bishop that does should be punished.

That's incorrect. A priest can deny anyone communion if he has reason to do so. The body of Christ can't simply be handed out to anyone. If you're in mortal sin, you can't recieve the grace Christ gives us.

Another example of bad Catechism teachers.  Either he or she was ingnorant or they were trying to press their own agenda on the kids.  Unfortunatly about 90% of them are one way or the other.

[The Duke]

My take:

First, so you know where I'm coming from on religion.  I was raised in a Catholic family and was baptised Catholic, but I am no longer Catholic, I am a Deist.  I never once took communion.  I do not care for this Pope, since he is a political Pope, I do not care for the Doctrine of Papal Infallibility, since I believe a good Christian would only view the Bible as Infallible.  I don't believe that many of the Catholic Church's political positions have much support from the Bible at all, as StatesRights pointed out when it comes to the death penalty.

I also have seen, through my study of history, and I am a history minor so this is no superficial study of history, shows me that more often than not, when the church interferes in government business, things end poorly.  Look at sub-Saharan Africa and birth control, or Mother Teresa's opposition to birth control in India.  This is an interference in important issues that require more thought than just quoting Bible passages and such.  The government should stay out of the church, but the church should return the favor, too.

The Catholic Church should stop grandstanding and stay out of our politics.  I used to think that all those people who feared that if Kennedy was elected the Pope would run the country were a bunch of ignorant rednecks, but now I see what they were afraid of.  Voters should be able to vote their conscience, without fear they will be excomunicated.  The same goes for elected officials.

[??????????]

Anyhow, I'm catholic and part of the 78% for sure.  "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."  BTW, I was taught in Sunday School that is was illegal to deny any Catholic communion.  So any priest/bishop that does should be punished.

Where is their any such "law". If a person is not living the proper Catholic lifestyle no priest is "required" to give them communion.

a priest isn't an ultimate authority on morality.  God can deal with sinners; it's not up for us to decide.

Wrong. The bible does set the standards for dealing with sinners. And we are allowed to keep certain sinners out of the church. The  bible is the ultimate earthly authority on morality.

[Brambila]

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Though the church, like any other organization that has over a billion adherents (or even a lot less,  like the US), has been a corrupt organization, you can't blame all these events on Catholicism. There are a few points I would like to make, specifically the African and Indian birth control messages. First of all, not that many nations listened to the Church leader's warnings about birth control. One of the nations that did was Uganda, who in 1991 began teaching abstinence programs to adults and minors, and lowered extensively the amount of condoms being used. By the year 2000, the prevelency rate dropped from 21% to 5% (condom use for females was 44% and for makes 60%). Meanwhile, in Zimbabwe (70% of males use condoms, 42% of females), where condoms are more prevelent and more in use, the HIV prevelency rate is at 34%! India is an even better example- only 51% of men and 40% of women use condoms, and their prevelency rate is at 0.8%! Even though the statistical differences arn't too great, clearly, contraceptives are not the answer.

Now, if you mentioned India for over population, that is simply not the case. India does have a huge population, but is by most means not over populated. The problem is, there is a huge population in India, and it's run by one government and several confederate states. It needs to be much more confederated than it is (New Dehli has way too much power), and they need to spread out their resources. The population in India is not that dense- it's about the same to that of the UK, Maryland, and Switzerland, and none of them are overpopulated. Further, world food production has been increasing since the 1960s. Rice and wheat production in india has tripled since 1950. The reason for this is largely due to the fact that standard prices on Indian foods were lifted, so Indian food got less expensive, and people were able to buy food. Ultimately, it all boils down to how much control the government has, and politics.

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Ford, the problem is that these people (ie, Kerry, and the "Rainbow Sash" members) are bringing politics into the church. Both of them are ardent supporters of abortion- which is a moral sin, since the church recognizes being pro-abortion as being pro-murder, even though Kerry knows this. The priest has a responsibility to protect Christ's sacred body by denying communion to Kerry's filthy soul. In the case of the Rainbow Sash members, they are also in mortal sin for practicing in not only premarital sex but also homosexual sex. Again, if a priest knows that they are in mortal sin, he has a responsibility to deny them communion. Futher, in both of these cases they are bringing politics into church merely by being there.

Think about it.

[12th Doctor]

Just to add on: No Catholic is even supposed to go to communion it they have commited mortal sin and not gone to confession, so it's not just certain people.

[The Duke]

Brambila,

I didn't blame Catholicism in aprticular, I just see a general trend of religious fanaticism being dangerous when injected into politics.

I am well aware that contraceptives are not very useful in preventing STDs, especially when compared toa bstinence, but the do reduce the rates of pregnancy.

I disagree, I think India has too many people.  It is not a disasterous situation, but they could use a little birth control here or there.  Their population is growing rapidly.  It is difficult for India to provide a decent standard of living for everyone there, and the problem is even worse in Africa.

The church isn't applying the same standard to supporters of capital punishment as they are to abortion.  It is clear tht they are playing politics with the sacraments because there is a double standard here.  If the church wants a strict adherence to the cathecism, fine by me.  But they can't pick and choose, it makes them no better than cafeteria Catholics like Kerry.  I know Kerry will throw around his Catholicism to try and win Pennsylvania and Michigan, and I hope voters see through this.  Fortunatel, voters have already seen through the church's political stunt, and this gives me hope that they will see right through John Kerry's.

Soulty,

When you go to take communion, do you get grilled about whether you have used the Lord's name in vain or had premarital sex?  No, you just take your communion, and the priests assume you are an honorable person.  It isn't fair to select specific public officials and deny them communion.

[Brambila]

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A little birth control here and there? Oh, just a little evil here and there... Yes, their population is growing rapidly, but by 2050 the UN expects it to be on a decline. I've already told you that their food abundance is great, and that they have plenty of resources. The problem, once again, is the government.  They are too powerful.

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Ford, the reason is because Capital Punishment isn't a sin in the Catholic Church. Abortion is a very grevous sin, as is homosexual sex. I'm positive that most Catholics, and probably all of the United States Bishops are against the death penalty. But if you're pro-death penalty, it's not a mortal sin, becuase you're not supporting a mortal sin. However, abortion is very much a mortal sin, as is homosexual sex. So supporting these actions is supporting evil. If you support evil, you cannot recieve communion. It has absolutely nothing to do with picking and choosing. If anything, most US Catholic Bishops are liberal. This has nothing to do with politics, and everything to do with recieving the sacrament. The only political involvement I can see is the church trying to stop abortion. But that, you see, isn't wrong. The Church's responsibility is to safeguard the world from evil, and that's what it is doing.

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No, but if you went up to communion and said "I HAD SEX WITH MY BOYFRIEND AND MADE HIS OLD GIRLFRIEND HAVE FOUR ABORTIONS AND I DIDN'T GO TO CONFESSION", then the priest is going to deny you communion. It's your own responsibility if your in sin or not, but if you make it open, it's the priest's responsibility too.