What if France Had Retained Control of Canada in 1763?

[Frodo]

Carry on this scenario in the North American context -note that anything Straha types doesn't count:

The French and Indian War (otherwise known as the Seven Years War in Europe and the rest of the world) has ended with the decisive defeat of France and Spain by Great Britain under the leadership of William Pitt the Elder who later stepped down from power, with William Bute taking his place as Prime Minister.  It is Bute who negotiates the Treaty of Paris.  In it, most of the powers involved are restored their colonial territories with Britain agreeing to let France retain control of Canada and most of the territory east of the Mississippi River while gaining control of the Ohio Country and the sugar-producing islands in the Caribbean comprising the 'West Indies' to pay off its extensive war-time debts.  Spain meanwhile cedes control of Florida to the British in exchange for regaining Manila in the Philippines.
 

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

No american revolution and the Britisdh empire using ameircan troops sweeps away french/spanish posessions in louisiania, canada and the carribean during another anglo-french war in the 1790s.

[True Democrat]

America would have been created in a Canada-style dominion in the 1850s, though not as unified.

[Erc]

The colonists would be *very* pissed off at essentially getting nothing out West after the war...not enough to cause a revolt, of course (especially without any exacerbating taxes), but enough to seriously piss them off, certainly.  It's very likely that continuing colonial encroachment sparks some sort of conflict with the French at some point within the next few decades--by 1792, at the latest.

[J. J.]

Another war with France by 1780; the colonials don't revolt.

[ATFFL]

A lot depends on how the Brits treat the colonies.  The colonists wanted room to expand.  If the Brits close Florida to colonial immigration, resentment will still grow and a seperatist movement will arise. 

The gain of more sugar producing islands does not ensure there is no taxation on the Colonies.   We may still see a Stamp Act or equivalent for the purpose of to paying for the defense of the American Colonies. 

Someone will eventually come to power that sees the Colonists a vast, undertaxed mass of money.  This will likely spark rebellion in the 1790s or 1800s.

[Colin]

Let me see if I understand you. Does France retain just the Louisiana territory or the entire area of New France prior to the Seven Year's War?

[Frodo]

Let me see if I understand you. Does France retain just the Louisiana territory or the entire area of New France prior to the Seven Year's War?

Canada and the Louisiana Territory. 

[12th Doctor]

America would have been created in a Canada-style dominion in the 1850s, though not as unified.

Not as unified!?



Oh, my!

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Clearly they would have won the 2006 World Cup.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

1763 - With the French West Indies now part of the British West Indies, the Trade Act of 1763 included stern anti-smuggling provisions like OTL's Sugar Act, but eliminated the molasses tarriff entirely since it wasn't needed on mercantilist grounds.  As a result less uprest.

1765 - The Stamp Act is enacted, but it has lower fees, equivalent to those paid in England, so while there is grumbling, it does go into effect without much protest.

1777 -  The American Baronetcies Act is passed, both as a means of raising revenue, and as one of two acts to provide for Amercan representation in Parliament.  Like the old Nova Scotian baronetcies, these are to be puchasable honors, this time with funds raised to be used to  help retire the debt remaining from the last war.  In addition, the baronets were to select 3 of their number to sit as representative peers in the House of Lords, with the same privledges as a Scottish Lord of Parliment.   The other Act is the American Representation in Commons Act and provides for one member to be elected to the House of Commons from each royal colony in the Americas.  Note that this excluded Connecticut and Rhode Island since they had retained their original charters, but the Act provided for them to elect a Member of Parliment upon the surrender of their charter and conversiion to a royal colony.  Commecticut would do so in 1780, but Rhode Island would remain stubbornly defiant and never do so.  John Adams is the first MP from the colonies to be seated in Commons, and Benjamin Franklin is the first of the American representative peers to bench with the Lords.

1785 - The French royal coffers have run dry and the States-General are called into session.  Without the example of the American Revolution to radicalize them (or to cause a fear of radicalism) they are a more subdued body.  The Third Estate is not only granted the doubled representation, but in this ATL, they also gain the doubled voting power they sought.  The tax and other reforms that France needed were passed without a revolution, but not without much debate.

1788 - Charles IV of Spain inherits the throne and quickly proves to be as incomeptent in this timeline as in ours.

1791 - Without the example of the French Revolution to cause Catherine the Great to abadon her liberal stances, she does not support the idea of a Second Partition of Poland after it adopts its May Constitution, and without her support there is no Second Partition.

1798 - Following the death of King Stanislaus II, intrgue led to the War of the Polish Succession.  The May Constitution specified Fredrick Augustus III, Elector of Saxony should be the next king.  Unfortunately he had only a 13 year old daughter for heir, so naturally there was all sorts of foreign intrigue involving who she would marry, with those disappointed by the prospective choce of the moment keeping the option of restoring the traditional elective nature of the Polish monarchy alive should Fredrick be seemingly headed in the wrong direction in his choice of son-in-law.  The following fifteen years of war, deception, and disruption, by the end of it, thanks to the alliance with the British that he ultimately made, Frederick Augustus was King of Saxony, Poland, and Hungary, with his principal heir being Ernest Augustus I, Duke of Cumberland, Teviotdale, and Brunswick-Lüneburg, who would inherit the Kingdoms of Poland and Hungary upon his father-in-law's death in 1829 and that of Hanover upon his brother William's death in 1837.  I'll detail how all this affects the Dominion of the Americas in my next post.

[Colin]

Let me see if I understand you. Does France retain just the Louisiana territory or the entire area of New France prior to the Seven Year's War?

Canada and the Louisiana Territory. 

No what I meant by my question was did they retain any non-Canadian territory east of the Mississippi? This means excluding Canada and Quebec. Were the Northeast and Southwest Territories still ceded to England?

[Frodo]

Let me see if I understand you. Does France retain just the Louisiana territory or the entire area of New France prior to the Seven Year's War?

Canada and the Louisiana Territory. 

No what I meant by my question was did they retain any non-Canadian territory east of the Mississippi? This means excluding Canada and Quebec. Were the Northeast and Southwest Territories still ceded to England?

Are you referring to who controls the Ohio Country which is what started off the conflict in the first place?   

I'm sorry, but I overlooked that one important detail. 

Let's just say that Great Britain gets control of the Ohio Country including the key junction at which the Allegheny, Monongahela, and Ohio rivers meet. 

France, in the meantime, keeps Canada including the fortress of Louisbourg, as well as much of the Louisiana territory including the key city of New Orleans.   

[Hatman 🍁]

America would have been created in a Canada-style dominion in the 1850s, though not as unified.

Not as unified!?



Oh, my!

I think he meant not as unified as Canada.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

1801 - With the marriage of the Duke of Cumberland to the Infanta of Poland, Louis XVI of France loses interest in far away Poland and makes peace with Britain and turns on his idiot cousin, Charles IV of Spain. For the next twelve years, wihle most of the attention of Europe is focused on the Polish Question, Louis concerns himself mainly with Spain.  Uniting with the pox-scarred but crafty José, Regent of Portugal (thanks to the butterfly effect, José still gets smallpox, but doesn't die of it in this time line) the French and the Portugeuse begin the first of three wars against Spain. The first war has but small effect, save that the Texas country is annexed to Louisiana and the border between Brazil and the Vice Royalty of the Rio Plata is adjusted in favor of Brazil.

1804 - The War of the Empire is part of the series of wars known as the War of the Polish Succession.  Louis gets enticed one last time into the Polish wars by the opportunity to gain the Austrian Netherlands for France.  He does manage to get Tournais, Hainaut, and part of the Bishoporic of Liege out of the War that saw the dissolvement of the Holy Roman Empire, while Flanders and Brabant now form the Bavarian Netherlands.

1807 -  The second Iberian War begins when Charles IV of Spain is induced to attack France by Victor Emannuel of Sardinia, who worries that France might have designs on him.  Their joint preemptive attack proves a fiasco and Potugal joins in on the side of France againsta weakened Spain.  France acquires the Savoy and Aosta from Victor and Galizia is taken from Spain by José.

1810 - The third of the Iberian Wars starts over in the New World over disputes concerneing now far west Brazil extends and how far south Tejas goes.  Charles IV is encourage to take a tough stance on both issues by Britain who is wrried that France is regaining too much strength, but a resumption of warfare in the Baltic keeps Britain form doing too much other than threatening to go to war if France and Portugal are too greedy.  Still, Spain is forced to agree with the Franco-Portugese border interpretations and to cede Rio Muni to the Portugese and Spanish Navarre to France.

Three straight ignoble defeats of Spain leads to considerable discontent, especially n New Spain, discontent leading to anger as Spain imposes new and higher taxes in an attempt to deal with its war debts.  Revolts break out in Mexico, Guatemala. New Granada. Peru, and Rio Plata, some seeking merely tax relief, others someone other than Charles IV in the throne and in New Granda, under the leadership of Bolivar they actually dare seek independence, but more on that in my next post.

[Colin]

Let me see if I understand you. Does France retain just the Louisiana territory or the entire area of New France prior to the Seven Year's War?

Canada and the Louisiana Territory. 

No what I meant by my question was did they retain any non-Canadian territory east of the Mississippi? This means excluding Canada and Quebec. Were the Northeast and Southwest Territories still ceded to England?

Are you referring to who controls the Ohio Country which is what started off the conflict in the first place?   

I'm sorry, but I overlooked that one important detail. 

Let's just say that Great Britain gets control of the Ohio Country including the key junction at which the Allegheny, Monongahela, and Ohio rivers meet. 

France, in the meantime, keeps Canada including the fortress of Louisbourg, as well as much of the Louisiana territory including the key city of New Orleans.   

Two problems with that. Britain had already taken Louisburg after a second Siege in 1758 and had driven the last of the French out of the Maritimes.

What I would expect would be a maintaining of Quebec and Lower Canada and the Louisiana Territory west of the Mississippi. This would allow for the Demarkation Act, IIRC, which set the limit for white settlement to be imposed on the colonies which was the first major bone of contention leading to the Revolutionary War. With the French pushed back into two pockets the Colonists may have considered themselves safe enough to revolt.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

1795 saw the passage of the Church in America Act (34 George III c.24).  14 dioceses are established, one per royal province (Nova Scotia, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, East Florida, and West Florida; Delaware and Vermont aren't independent, and Rhode Island is not a royal colony) all of which are under the authority of the Primate of All America, the Archbishop of New York.

By 1803, Britain was desireous of obtaining colonial manpower for use in the Wars of the Polish Succession.  However, trying to obtain it from the 14 royal provinces of America was wearisome, and not particularly fruitful.  The Viceroyalty of America Act (43 George III c.15) built upon the American Baronetcies Act to establish a single government for the British to have to dicker with and which then could have the fun of dealing with the individual provinces.  The 14 royal provinces were incorporated into a single government with responsibility for defense, customs, and the post.  In addition, the Province of Maine was created from OTL's Maine and New Brunswick and four new provinces were formed in the interior.  From north to south these were Ohio (territory north of the Ohio), Kentucky (territory south of the Ohio and north of the Cumberland), New Cumberland (territory south of the Cumberland and north of the Tennessee), and Tennessee (territory south of the Tennesee and north of West Florida).  Together these 19 provinces were governed by an American Parliament.  The existing Baronets formed the upper chamber along with the now 19 bishops of the Church of America.  The lower chamber is apportioned roughly on the basis of the number of voters, with individual provinces free to allocate their apportionment however they see fit.  While this does not lead to as many troops being raised as the British Parliament had hoped, it was more than they had gotten under the old system.

1809 - Thomas Jefferson dies in debtor's prison, unnoticed save by his relatives and creditors.

1818 - With the British Fleet heavily engaged in supporting Poland and the British East India Company during the past two decades, the presence of the Royal Navy in American waters had been fairly light. In addition, the Americans were worried that France might try to take advantage of the unrest in New Spain.  As a result. the American Parliament decides on its own to outfit 19 sixth-rate frigates of 28 guns, one per province and named after the provinical capital, and an additional 4 fifth-rate frigates of 38 guns (HMAF America, HMAF Chesapeake, HMAF Constellation, HMAF Franklin).  From this modest beginning, the Royal Ameican Navy is born.

1822 - HMAF Williamsburg engages the French sloop Lafayette off the Yucatan coast when her captains thinks the French ship is offloading cannon to aid the Mexican rebels.  Actually, the ship had run aground and the sloop was offloading cannon to lighten her so that she could float.  The engagement quickly ends, with no loss of life, and the misunderstanding corrected but the incident leads to the Franco-American War.

1823 - With the mother country having many irons in the fire, Britain's support is limited primarily to its navy.  Spain quirkily joins France.  The American Army occupies Havana and American help enables the Spanish colonial independnce movements to finally succeed.

1827 - Treaty of Amsterdam ends the war.  France loses the Illinois country to America, and its Indian possesessions to the British East India Company, but it does regain Hayti.Spain doesn't quite recognize the independence of its mainland possessions, but it does agree to an armistice with them.

1829 - Provinces of Illinois and Wabash are organized out of the acquired territory.

1830's - With Britain clamping down on the Trans-atlantic slave trade, the drain of American slaves to the West Indies leads the provinces of Kentucky, Cumberland, Tennessee and Virginia to adopt gradual emancipation.