"Gay Rights"

[Rin-chan]

One in 10 people are born gay. 

Where did you get that statistic?  I didn't even think they had officially proven that people are born gay.  I thought it was just speculation and theory.

Rin-chan

[Rin-chan]

One in 10 people are born gay. 

Where did you get that statistic?

I think he made it up.

Me too.

Rin-chan

[Rin-chan]

One in 10 people are born gay. 

Where did you get that statistic?  I didn't even think they had officially proven that people are born gay.  I thought it was just speculation and theory.

Rin-chan

Yeah!  And how do we REALLY know the Earth is round instead of flat?

Its abundantly obvious that people, en masse, do not choose to suffer discrimination and abuse.

The 10% number is an aggregation of a number of studies and surveys.  Until its put in the census, its probably impossible to get an exact number.

We really know the Earth is round because we can go into outer space and see it.  It's fact.

However, we can't rule out whether someone is possibly genetically gay verses someone who is gay because of their environment, such as childhood abuse or early interactions with family.

Not even the census can prove or disprove something like that.

Rin-chan

[Rin-chan]

One in 10 people are born gay. 

Where did you get that statistic?  I didn't even think they had officially proven that people are born gay.  I thought it was just speculation and theory.

Rin-chan

Yeah!  And how do we REALLY know the Earth is round instead of flat?

Its abundantly obvious that people, en masse, do not choose to suffer discrimination and abuse.

The 10% number is an aggregation of a number of studies and surveys.  Until its put in the census, its probably impossible to get an exact number.

We really know the Earth is round because we can go into outer space and see it.  It's fact.

However, we can't rule out whether someone is possibly genetically gay verses someone who is gay because of their environment, such as childhood abuse or early interactions with family.

Not even the census can prove or disprove something like that.

Rin-chan

We can certainly rule out your theory given that there are gays that come from all kinds of backgrounds.  Do you really believe that most gays and lesbians are homosexual because they were abused as children or had some sort of abnormality occur to them?

You spread around your theory because its the only way you can justify bigotry and intolerance against gays - by suggesting that something abusive occured to them in childhood.

But lets just pretend you're right for a moment... that there is no genetic predisposition to homosexuality.  Lets pretend that all gays are just victims of abuse.  Isn't it sick of you to re-victimize someone - to not give them some hope of a normal life - sharing love with the partner of their choice?

I'm not saying they were all abused.  That was just an example.  If you payed attention to the "interactions with family" example, then you may have found a good example of the nurture argument.  Although Freud is a whack-job most of the time, he did come up with an interesting theory.  If a young child does not identify themselves with the same sex for whatever reason (opposite sex parent wasn't home enough or strongly preferred the mother or opposite sex parent was the strong, silent type, etc.), then the child will identify with members of the opposite sex and, therefore, take on characteristics normally attributed to that sex.

Erik Erikson believed that throughout our lives, we must solve different crises at different stages of our lives.  His fifth stage, identity vs. role confusion, says that children must find their place in society or become confused.  This includes sexual identity.

Now, I'm not saying that people aren't born homosexual, I'm saying that the statistic that 1 in every 10 children will become gay may not be completely accurate.

I'm also not saying that either of the above theories are correct, I'm just throwing them out there because neither of them have been disproved yet.

However, until there is undeniable proof that there is some sort of genetic link to homosexuality, I don't think that such statistics should be thrown around lightly.

Rin-chan

[Rin-chan]

One in 10 people are born gay. 

Where did you get that statistic?  I didn't even think they had officially proven that people are born gay.  I thought it was just speculation and theory.

Rin-chan

Yeah!  And how do we REALLY know the Earth is round instead of flat?

Its abundantly obvious that people, en masse, do not choose to suffer discrimination and abuse.

The 10% number is an aggregation of a number of studies and surveys.  Until its put in the census, its probably impossible to get an exact number.

We really know the Earth is round because we can go into outer space and see it.  It's fact.

However, we can't rule out whether someone is possibly genetically gay verses someone who is gay because of their environment, such as childhood abuse or early interactions with family.

Not even the census can prove or disprove something like that.

Rin-chan

We can certainly rule out your theory given that there are gays that come from all kinds of backgrounds.  Do you really believe that most gays and lesbians are homosexual because they were abused as children or had some sort of abnormality occur to them?

You spread around your theory because its the only way you can justify bigotry and intolerance against gays - by suggesting that something abusive occured to them in childhood.

But lets just pretend you're right for a moment... that there is no genetic predisposition to homosexuality.  Lets pretend that all gays are just victims of abuse.  Isn't it sick of you to re-victimize someone - to not give them some hope of a normal life - sharing love with the partner of their choice?

I'm not saying they were all abused.  That was just an example.  If you payed attention to the "interactions with family" example, then you may have found a good example of the nurture argument.  Although Freud is a whack-job most of the time, he did come up with an interesting theory.  If a young child does not identify themselves with the same sex for whatever reason (opposite sex parent wasn't home enough or strongly preferred the mother or opposite sex parent was the strong, silent type, etc.), then the child will identify with members of the opposite sex and, therefore, take on characteristics normally attributed to that sex.

Erik Erikson believed that throughout our lives, we must solve different crises at different stages of our lives.  His fifth stage, identity vs. role confusion, says that children must find their place in society or become confused.  This includes sexual identity.

Now, I'm not saying that people aren't born homosexual, I'm saying that the statistic that 1 in every 10 children will become gay may not be completely accurate.

I'm also not saying that either of the above theories are correct, I'm just throwing them out there because neither of them have been disproved yet.

However, until there is undeniable proof that there is some sort of genetic link to homosexuality, I don't think that such statistics should be thrown around lightly.

Rin-chan

Then, until there is undeniable proof that there is no genetic link to homosexuality, and that its just a "lifestyle choice", why should we discriminate against gay and lesbian Americans?

Did I ever say we should?

Rin-chan