Slavery Reparations Movement Becoming Mainstream

[David S]

Lincoln is to blame for this.  He should have not gone easy.  He should have had every slave owner executed and turned over the land to the slaves. 

Seems a bit severe for doing something that was not a crime at the time.

[Storebought]

I am about ready to lose my patience with this nonsense.

Everyone here on the AF, with decided exceptions, has the intelligence to realize that

(1) Slavery was legal until it was abolished in principle during the Civil War by the EP, and by law through the 13, 14, and 15th amendments
(2) Any person today held in bondage, not because of punishment for a crime, must be freed and ought to be granted payment for services rendered, since slavery in the US since 1868 has been illegal.
(3) While Condition 2 sadly exists in the US (mostly due to the abuse of illegal immigrants), none of the persons claiming reparations is either a slave or in bond; consequently, none of the parties from which these groups demand payment are in fact slaveholders. Another word for this manner of extraction of payment from innocent parties is extortion.
(4) In light of Condition 3, the only legal obligation for people claiming reparations today is a prison sentence, since what they are doing is in fact organized crime.

I'll leave it to the Emsworths and Philips to punch holes in this argument.

[Speed of Sound]

Purposeless, flawed, inexecutable, dangerous, illogical, and unnecessary.

These adjectives not only describe my feelings for it, but also why its gaining momentum in America. 

[Colin]

Lincoln is to blame for this.  He should have not gone easy.  He should have had every slave owner executed and turned over the land to the slaves.  There would be the reparations.

Oh yeah that really would have helped heal the nation after the Civil War. Given the damage a Confederate guerilla movement could have done in the South after the war the need to make sure that former Confederates didn't flee into the hills far surpassed any retribution.

Do you think that Southern slaveowners would have just idlely stood there and waited for their executions? Would you? Hell no they would have taken what remained of their forces and did what rebels in Mexico and Latin America did after they lost, fight a long drawn out guerilla war against the federal government.

[Emsworth]

Because, obviously, Emsworth you simpleton, they inherited the wealth gained thereby.  The liabilities also attach to the estate.

Your argument, if it is correct, would only establish that the descendants of the slave owners should pay reparations. It would not establish that the descendants of slaves are entitled to receive reparations.

Lincoln is to blame for this.  He should have not gone easy.  He should have had every slave owner executed and turned over the land to the slaves.  There would be the reparations.

I see that you support ex post facto laws.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

In 1865 if I was lincoln I would have done 3 things:. Firslty I would have dumped the ex-slaves in cuba, the dominican republic, PR, Liberia and Haiti. Secondly I would have also then booted out the southern whites to south africa, brazil, mexico, the UK, Canada, Argentina and New Zealand. Thirdly I'd promote homesteader settlmenet of the emptired out dixie and promote immigration to the new frontier.

[Q]

Lincoln is to blame for this.  He should have not gone easy.  He should have had every slave owner executed and turned over the land to the slaves.  There would be the reparations.

In 1865 if I was lincoln I would have done 3 things:. Firslty I would have dumped the ex-slaves in cuba, the dominican republic, PR, Liberia and Haiti. Secondly I would have also then booted out the southern whites to south africa, brazil, mexico, the UK, Canada, Argentina and New Zealand. Thirdly I'd promote homesteader settlmenet of the emptired out dixie and promote immigration to the new frontier.

Pretty active for a guy who was pushing up daisies.

[minionofmidas]

In 1865 if I was lincoln I would have done 3 things:. Firslty I would have dumped the ex-slaves in cuba, the dominican republic, PR, Liberia and Haiti. Secondly I would have also then booted out the southern whites to south africa, brazil, mexico, the UK, Canada, Argentina and New Zealand. Thirdly I'd promote homesteader settlmenet of the emptired out dixie and promote immigration to the new frontier.

Mexican immigration, I would hope?

[NewFederalist]

In 1865 if I was lincoln I would have done 3 things:. Firslty I would skipped the play at the Ford Theatre... Secondly I would have put my crazy wife on antidepressants... Thirdly I would have bought more life insurance just in case!

Good call!

[dazzleman]

...but would probably mean the end of a certain level of white deference to blacks that started in the 1960s.

Hah - white deference to blacks.  Is that what you call it when they aren't called N's to their face, or are warehoused in prisons instead of immediately lynched?

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OK, I'll use that argument the next time I deal with a bill collector. 

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You racist ass, the wealth and power the elite enjoy rest upon the wealth and power of their predecessors (and in most cases their progenitors).  Your lack of understanding of history is pathetic.

You're positively hilarious, opebo.  You really ought to take your comedy act on the road.  You could be making a lot of money with this stuff.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

In 1865 if I was lincoln I would have done 3 things:. Firslty I would skipped the play at the Ford Theatre... Secondly I would have put my crazy wife on antidepressants... Thirdly I would have bought more life insurance just in case!

Good call!

Yeah. Its more of a cultural thing. Southerners and black americans both share the same culture. I don't particulary like this culture so if I have the opportunity to completely exise it from the US I'd take it.

[opebo]

Because, obviously, Emsworth you simpleton, they inherited the wealth gained thereby.  The liabilities also attach to the estate.

Your argument, if it is correct, would only establish that the descendants of the slave owners should pay reparations. It would not establish that the descendants of slaves are entitled to receive reparations.

Inheritance of an economically disadvantageous postion in the social (power) heirarchy is just as clear as inheritance of an advantaged, powerful position, Emsworth.

[Emsworth]

Inheritance of an economically disadvantageous postion in the social (power) heirarchy is just as clear as inheritance of an advantaged, powerful position, Emsworth.

If there were no slave trade, then most of the descendants of the slaves would now be in Africa. It is certainly reasonable to argue that most African-Americans are better off than most Africans today. Therefore, one might suggest that the descendants of slaves derived a benefit from the migration of their ancestors.

[opebo]

Inheritance of an economically disadvantageous postion in the social (power) heirarchy is just as clear as inheritance of an advantaged, powerful position, Emsworth.

If there were no slave trade, then most of the descendants of the slaves would now be in Africa.

That is quite a leap!

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Another enormous leap, and immaterial as one can only judge material well being relative to others in one's society.

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Only in terms of locale, Emsworth.  If they had been transported to be given land grants they would have been better off - the transportation may have been beneficial, but the enslavement was not.  The fact remains that their unequal treatment (access to power) compared to whites has led to their having an obvious claim against their oppressors.  The key of course is gaining enough political power to bring it to fruition.

[Democratic Hawk]

I wonder if the driving forces behind this movement are Robert Mugabe fans

Dave

[angus]

In 1865 if I was lincoln I would have done 3 things:. Firslty I would have dumped the ex-slaves in cuba, the dominican republic, PR, Liberia and Haiti. Secondly I would have also then booted out the southern whites to south africa, brazil, mexico, the UK, Canada, Argentina and New Zealand. Thirdly I'd promote homesteader settlmenet of the emptired out dixie and promote immigration to the new frontier.

LOL.  Don't like ns or crackers do ya.  Gotta admire your honesty though; such candor is hard to come by in the age of mainstream political correctness.

Personally, I'd do three things if I were Lincoln in 1865 as well, but they'd be three different things.  Dump that mannish old lady for a hottie.  Surely now that I'm pres I deserve a foxy woman.  Or at least have one on the side, Jefferson-style.  Also I'd avoid the theater.  All theaters.  Lastly, I'd shave that horrid beard. 

[David S]

Exactly who is this idea "gaining momentum" with? Sounds like most forum members are firmly against it.

[7,052,770]

Here's my philosophy on slave reparations:

We can pay then once with reparations and let them do something, or pay them forever with welfare.

[MasterJedi]

Here's my philosophy on slave reparations:

We can pay then once with reparations and let them do something, or pay them forever with welfare.

They'll demand welfare as well even if we did give them reparations for something none of us did.

[7,052,770]

Here's my philosophy on slave reparations:

We can pay then once with reparations and let them do something, or pay them forever with welfare.

They'll demand welfare as well even if we did give them reparations for something none of us did.

hopefully, they can use the reparation money, which will be a good bit bigger than the average welfare check to make something of themselves...start a business, move to a better part of town, take some classes, etc., and no longer need welfare.

[angus]

...or pay them forever with welfare.

damn harry.  you and straha on the same page?  Apparent bigotry.  Well at least you're not shipping them off to caribbean islands and africa and new zealand.

seriously, does everyone's ancestors owe everyone else's ancestors in your book?  Where will it end?  That's radical.  And encouraging dependency can't be good for anyone.  Not good for the descendants of african slaves, or for the descendants of their masters, or for the rest of us (a majority) who fall into neither of those groups.  I'm not saying it's wrong.  I'm just not seeing any justification for it outside plain bigotry:  they're inferior, incapable of learning and adapting on their own, and need twenty thousand dollars to buy their home versions of Pee Wee's Playhouse because they're unable to build anything on their own.  You know that's false.  I'm surprised at you, a Jackson boy.  If you were from say Canada (it's lily white here even in ultra blue collar saint catherines, except for the 5 or so percent that's East Asian) or Maine (where "coon" still means a carnivorous mammal) or anwhere in Connecticut outside Hartford, I might more easily forgive your misimpressions of blacks.  But I have to imagine that you know many educated, hardworking, capable blacks.  Teachers, attorneys, professors, physicians, engineers, and the like. 

Rice Crispy treats, anyone? 

[opebo]

...or pay them forever with welfare.

damn harry.  you and straha on the same page?  Apparent bigotry.  Well at least you're not shipping them off to caribbean islands and africa and new zealand.

seriously, does everyone's ancestors owe everyone else's ancestors in your book?  Where will it end?

Society is a continuity, angus, in which political power (force) has been and continues to be used to benefit some and enslave others others.  Your attachment to the idea of individual 'ownership' and 'responsibility' is where your error lies.

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Your concept of dependency is erroneous.  Those for whom the system was constructed (the owners) are utterly dependent, in the sense that they depend upon the labours of their serfs for support.  In a larger sense, dependency is the natural state of a social animal such as the human, whether he is the master or the servant.   Even the worker, who is at an enormous disadvantge in modern society, would probably do even worse if deposited alone on a desert island.

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You offensive hippy, the professions you mention are less hardworking than the far more numerous blacks who work in the truly arduous food-service or retail fields.