Israel & Lebanon war-ish

[Flying Dog]

Israel is refusing the Lebanese cease-fire offers. I think a country could assert control over its territory better when it's not having its infrastructure bombed to hell. If Israel wants Lebanon to take over its south, then why not work with them instead of blockading them and bombing their airports?

The cease fire offers, from Lebanon would be impressive, if Lebanon was shooting at any one.

Israel is not preventing one Lebanese soldier from moving to disarm (or suppress) Hezbollah.

Israel has killed more Lebanese soldiers than Hezbollah members at the latest numbers (3:2), so technically killing them might stop them

With 8 Canadians just killed, this makes Israel responsible for the killings of innocents from the following countries:

I dont like any of those countries.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Israel is refusing the Lebanese cease-fire offers. I think a country could assert control over its territory better when it's not having its infrastructure bombed to hell. If Israel wants Lebanon to take over its south, then why not work with them instead of blockading them and bombing their airports?

The cease fire offers, from Lebanon would be impressive, if Lebanon was shooting at any one.

Israel is not preventing one Lebanese soldier from moving to disarm (or suppress) Hezbollah.

Gee, maybe they got issues with their military bases being hit and the soldiers being needed for damage relief.

[J. J.]

Gee, maybe they got issues with their military bases being hit and the soldiers being needed for damage relief.

Their bases have not been hit.  Israel has been hitting Hezbollah targets.  That is part of the problem.  Hezbollah, the group that's taken the hostages and is attacking Israel, has its forces on Lebanese soil ant is attacking from Lebanese soil.  The Lebanese won't (or can't) remove them.

[Rob]

Here's a good article on the recent conflict. Some excerpts:

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The s**t is really hitting the fan.

[Flying Dog]

The IDF has the full support of the Israeli people it looks like.

[phk]

If Israel is targeting millitants it's doing a sh**tty job.

[J. J.]

Israel just announced it would agree to a cease fire if Hezbollah agrees to release the captured soldiers and pulls back from the border.  The ball is in Hezbollah's court now.

[Flying Dog]

Hezbollah wont leave. Ecpect this to drag on for a long time, or even expand.

[J. J.]

Hezbollah wont leave. Ecpect this to drag on for a long time, or even expand.

Then, as a military force, it will be destroyed.

[minionofmidas]

If Israel is targeting millitants it's doing a sh**tty job.

It's not doing anything of the kind.

[WMS]

Question: are we all certain that the reports of 'civilian deaths caused by Israel' are accurate? There's been a lot of unconditional acceptance of every assertion made against the Israelis in this thread so far...

[Lunar]

Question: are we all certain that the reports of 'civilian deaths caused by Israel' are accurate? There's been a lot of unconditional acceptance of every assertion made against the Israelis in this thread so far...

My numbers came from a wikipedia article that seems to vary basing its numbers on media reports and government reports.  The high numbers of civilians are of course provided the Lebanese government.  Really, I'm just using the likely skewed numbers to make fun of Israel for seemingly failing to maintain a better military:civilian ratio than Hezbollah, which is firing missiles randomly into population centers.

Still, judging from the amount of foreign casualities and the direct accounts in media reports, there does seem to be a fairly high amount of civilian casualities.  It's just haphazard extrapolation from the amount of Candians, Brazilians, and publiciced women & children, but I do believe that Israel is goofing up to some degree.

[WMS]

Question: are we all certain that the reports of 'civilian deaths caused by Israel' are accurate? There's been a lot of unconditional acceptance of every assertion made against the Israelis in this thread so far...

My numbers came from a wikipedia article that seems to vary basing its numbers on media reports and government reports.  The high numbers of civilians are of course provided the Lebanese government.  Really, I'm just using the likely skewed numbers to make fun of Israel for seemingly failing to maintain a better military:civilian ratio than Hezbollah, which is firing missiles randomly into population centers.

Still, judging from the amount of foreign casualities and the direct accounts in media reports, there does seem to be a fairly high amount of civilian casualities.  It's just haphazard extrapolation from the amount of Candians, Brazilians, and publiciced women & children, but I do believe that Israel is goofing up to some degree.

I've read the same article, and knew very well the source was not exactly unbiased. Whenever I start to hear reports of how Israel (or the U.S.) always hits innocent civvies and never hits militants or insurgents, I get more than a little suspicious, shall we say.

It wouldn't surprise me if some civvies are getting caught in the crossfire of operations - inevitable when your enemy hides among the civilian population - but I highly doubt Israel (or, again, the U.S. in Iraq) is deliberately targeting civilians.

But just wait until there's a ground war...and all the arguments triple in intensity.

[Flying Dog]

Another barrage of Katyusha rockets hit Haifa. A hospital was hit and 3 were injured. That just happend 10-20 minutes ago.

[AuH2O]

Hezbollah hides weapons and such in civilian areas, a standard tactic. So obviously a lot of civilians are going to die in a clash, because otherwise Israel would not be able to take out Hezbollah weapons caches.

The solution here is to deez up the Lebanese military so they can take on Hezbollah. The Russians would love nothing better than to provide T-80s and BMPs to Lebanon, with the "international community" (i.e. US) picking up the tab.

[Rob]

Remember those Canadians that Israel killed? It turns out that four of them were children:

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Way to go after those evildoers, Israel! *thumbs up*

[Lunar]

Remember those Canadians that Israel killed? It turns out that four of them were children:

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Way to go after those evildoers, Israel! *thumbs up*

Actually, a reasonable number of those killed overall involve killings of women and children.  The four Germans and the four Brazilians killed both included two children killed apiece.

I'm still unhappy with Israeli conduct here.  I know that Israel is not going to be involved in Lebanese recovery (I'm unsure if Lebanese politicians could even accept Israeli help if they wanted to - public opinion might be against it).  This means that Israel just blew up dozens of roads, power plants, etc. without compensation, probably yielding in another generation of angry poor people in the country and throughout the region.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

The Israeli newspaper Haaretz seems to be a rare voice of reason on this conflict.

Anyways, someone needs to lock the Israel and Lebanon leaders in a room and tell them they're not coming out until they end this nonsense.

[ATFFL]

The Israeli newspaper Haaretz seems to be a rare voice of reason on this conflict.

Anyways, someone needs to lock the Israel and Lebanon leaders in a room and tell them they're not coming out until they end this nonsense.

The Lebanese leaders have very little to do with this, other than ceding control of the southern part of their nation to Hezbollah.

[riceowl]

The Israeli newspaper Haaretz seems to be a rare voice of reason on this conflict.

Anyways, someone needs to lock the Israel and Lebanon leaders in a room and tell them they're not coming out until they end this nonsense.

The Lebanese leaders have very little to do with this, other than ceding control of the southern part of their nation to Hezbollah.

Also true.

But really, jfern's right.  It's like most of the rest of the world looks over there, sighs, and says, "They always play this way."

[ATFFL]

The Israeli newspaper Haaretz seems to be a rare voice of reason on this conflict.

Anyways, someone needs to lock the Israel and Lebanon leaders in a room and tell them they're not coming out until they end this nonsense.

The Lebanese leaders have very little to do with this, other than ceding control of the southern part of their nation to Hezbollah.

Also true.

But really, jfern's right.  It's like most of the rest of the world looks over there, sighs, and says, "They always play this way."

Didn't John McCain suggest something similar to 'fern's solution?

[Rob]

In a not particularly relevant- but very depressing- bit of news, Israeli youngsters are making a unique contribution to peace in the Middle East:



Yes, those are missiles earmarked for Lebanon.

[Michael Z]

Yes, those are missiles earmarked for Lebanon.

What the f***?

[??????????]

Pretty cool, huh, Mike?

[Michael Z]

Pretty cool, huh, Mike?

I don't get it. I suppose their teachers or parents or whoever told them the missiles are meant for the bad people who are bombing their homes. The fact that it's hitting factories, warehouses, roads, civilians, most of which have absolutely nothing to do with Hezbollah... nah, I think it's wrong to get kids involved in this sort of thing.