Israel & Lebanon war-ish

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

i can only hope israel takes out the terrorist regime in syria.

Why are you so obsessed with Syria? Of course it's an awful dictaotrship and has funded terrorists and all that, but it's not really any different than most of the other regimes in the region.

They aren't even relevant here anyway, since the Lebanese government is no longer pro-Syria.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The problem is that the Lebanese army is around 40% Shiite reflecting the population at large, and if they tried to take action against Hezbollah there'd be mass desertations and defections from that portion and possibly a mass Shiite uprising. It's safe to say there is virtually no love for Hezbollah at all from the Christian, Sunni and Druze populations, but they won't do anything about it because of...well what happened the last time they tried that.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

You gotta love how fernie can't hide that rabid Kossite anti-Semitism, even when it's obviously in the wrong.

It's not anti-Semetic. Maybe wrong or uninformed, but jfern and Kossers obviously don't hate people like Russ Feingold.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'd love to see Hezbollah and Hamas destroyed.  The more of those people the Israelis kill, the better.

Well, so far, they're at 1.

and compared to how many civilians?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Ah, OK. Let's kill 63 people with nothing to do with Hezbollah (and of a good portion weren't even Muslims) to get one Hezbollah member. Not to mention how many of their own people Israel has gotten killed too as a result. What crap.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Ah, OK. Let's kill 63 people with nothing to do with Hezbollah (and of a good portion weren't even Muslims) to get one Hezbollah member. Not to mention how many of their own people Israel has gotten killed too as a result. What crap.

By your logic, we shouldn't have fought back when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor.  How many Japanese and Germans did we kill who had nothing to do with the attack?  It was all more or less to get Hitler and Tojo.

In any case, this is about more than one person in Hezbollah.  I guess you think the Israelis should just sit there while those subhumans fire rockets into their cities?  That would conform with your overall views on things.  It's a shame nobody's firing rockets at you.

Does Hezbollah run Lebanon? No. Plus the targets there were military and military casualties were much proportionately higher.

I don't have any problems if Israel targeted only Hezbollah. They're not doing that, with the bombing of the Beruit airport and blockade.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

You gotta love how fernie can't hide that rabid Kossite anti-Semitism, even when it's obviously in the wrong.

It's not anti-Semetic. Maybe wrong or uninformed, but jfern and Kossers obviously don't hate people like Russ Feingold.

Of course it is.  Read between the lines.  And Kossers don't hate Feingold because (a) they agree with his political views and (b) they're told by Kos leadership not to question him.

Any anti-Semite would have to hate all Jews, obviously this would include liberal Jewish politicians. And there has to be a significant amount of Jews on Kos if it's similar to DU.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The Israelis should knock out the Iranian nuclear facilities, facilities the Iranians claim are for industrial power, but which are clearly for military purposes.

Unlike Iraq in 1981, this wouldn't work.

The reason is that the Iranian facilities are spread throughout the entire country, which is the size of Alaska. Many are underground. It would take literally hundreds of air strikes and just as many cruise missle ones. And even if all were destroyed, all that would happen is Iran's nuclear program would be set back 2-4 years.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

OK, a few things that need to be clarified.

1-Ahmadinejad was not the mullah-supported candidate (that was actually his runoff opponent, a pragmatist) and was initially considered a long shot dark horse. The guy was hardly considered a factor a few months before the election.

2-There is absolutely no evidence suggesting that Ahmadinejad did not fairly win the run off election under the circumstances that took (as Lewis has proven before). That's not to say the election was what could truly be considered "fair", but there is no question that the majority of people who came to vote that day did vote for Ahmadinejad. The reason Iran is not a democracy is not rigged elections a la Iraq under Sadddam or Zimbabwe, it's that the elected government doesn't have any real power. As for why Ahmadinejad won, it was mostly his promise of economic reforms, the fact that the reformist movement largely stayed home with their real candidate defeated in the first round, and being annoyed at Iraq (no invading Iraq = no Ahmadinejad, it's that simple)

3-And for that reason, Ahmadinejad is hardly a threat. He's basically just a loon who makes stupid comments to get him face time in the news. Note that the former PM of Malaysia made similar comments all the time (he claimed that the HIV virus was genetically engineered by Israel and in his farewell address claimed the entire world was secretely ruled by Jews) and yet he was never considered a threat, and he actually DID run his country.

4-Everyone should read the new Reader's Digest which has an article by a former National Security Council member explaining why military force will not work against Iran (and Iraq is basically the weakest link, proving once again to be a pointless liability), and the only way to rein them in is a carrot and stick approach that the US and EU are starting now (basically promising to help Iran stabalize and reform its economy in exchange for a drop of support for terrorism and end to nuclear production)

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

If Israel had consulted with Lebanon to do a joint offensive against Hezbollah, it would be much more efficient, and the blocking of supply routes could be done by the Lebanese army, there'd be no need for this mass and disproportionate destruction. The vast majority of things destroyed and people killed so far had nothing to do with Hezbollah. Israel is doing the equivalent of trying to destroy a cockroach nest by burning the entire house down.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The Lebanese PM the whole time has been offering Israel a cease-fire and disarming Hezbollah, and Israel is rejecting every offer of his.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1644123

Or if you refuse to read anything on DU see this: http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?c=JPArticle&cid=1150886009191&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

The officials noted positively that Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad Saniora had said Saturday at a press conference that his government would reassert government authority over all Lebanese territory - an allusion to the possibility of deploying the Lebanese army in south Lebanon, which is effectively controlled by Hizbullah.

Senior sources in the Prime Minister's Office said that dislodging Hizbullah from southern Lebanon and getting the government in Beirut to assert its authority over the area as called for by UN Security Council Resolution 1559 were among the primary goals of the IDF's current campaign.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Is Malaysia working on nuclear weapons?

No, but Ahmadinjead has just as much control over any nuclear program as he did.

What 'sticks' do you suggest using against Iran along with the carrots?  We've seen how well that has worked with North Korea.

Different situation. North Korea is basically a giant concentration camp that doesn't care about the outside world and can't really be dipolmatically or economically isolated anymore than it already is. Iran to some extent actually does want to be integrated into the global community.

Here's the article that basically summarizes everything: http://www.rd.com/content/openContent.do?contentId=28221

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Israel is refusing the Lebanese cease-fire offers. I think a country could assert control over its territory better when it's not having its infrastructure bombed to hell. If Israel wants Lebanon to take over its south, then why not work with them instead of blockading them and bombing their airports?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Israel is refusing the Lebanese cease-fire offers. I think a country could assert control over its territory better when it's not having its infrastructure bombed to hell. If Israel wants Lebanon to take over its south, then why not work with them instead of blockading them and bombing their airports?

The cease fire offers, from Lebanon would be impressive, if Lebanon was shooting at any one.

Israel is not preventing one Lebanese soldier from moving to disarm (or suppress) Hezbollah.

Gee, maybe they got issues with their military bases being hit and the soldiers being needed for damage relief.