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Author Topic: 2004 User Predictions - Discussion  (Read 814283 times)
Platypus
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« Reply #900 on: February 06, 2004, 04:47:15 pm »

well considering clark is from VA and Edwards is from neighboring NC, its not impossible.

As I said, it was the games prediction, not mine. but it was a fun game so I thought i'd post it. Next I'll do a Kerry/Edwards and see what happens Smiley
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tweed
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« Reply #901 on: February 06, 2004, 04:52:12 pm »

well considering clark is from VA and Edwards is from neighboring NC, its not impossible.
yes it is.
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Platypus
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« Reply #902 on: February 06, 2004, 05:06:58 pm »

whatever, its just a game Tongue

Here is Kerry/Edwards. if you ant to be completely shcoked, read on:

DEMOCRAT
Hawaii, Washington, Oregon, California, Arizona, SD, Kansas, Minnesota, Iowa, Illinois, Tennessee, Mississippi, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, DC, Delaware, maryland, New Jersey, and all NE states minus NH. I was winning Kansas by a margin of 14, and losing NH by 18 :rolleyes:
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Platypus
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« Reply #903 on: February 06, 2004, 11:03:01 pm »

I also have no idea how I got that Tongue
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M
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« Reply #904 on: February 07, 2004, 02:38:53 am »

I like to play observer games as Harry Browne, where I just sit and watch. I tries running Sharpton-Dean against Bush-Powell. Sharpton was leading at start in more states than Gore won, including Missouri and Tennesse. Eventually the game told me, "Get the full version if you want to beat Al Sharpton!" After noticing that Lieberman, Sharpton, Dean, and Kerry all do about the same, I decided the game wasn't the most accurate.

Say, if anyone has the full game, what additional candidates does it let you use?
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Saratoga2DM
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« Reply #905 on: February 08, 2004, 01:03:27 am »

Hello All:

Its been some time since I last posted and a lot has happened.  I think I am ready to say that Howard Dean is probably finished.  But my problem right now is who I am going to support.  I am not to wild about Kerry right now, Edwards is a conservative democrat with a middle-class upbringing, and I think Clark MUST be on the ticket in order for the Dems to beat Bush.  

Right now the media has shifted its attention to Kerry's so-called ties to special interests. (Any information from you good people about this topic, regardless of party affiliation, is helpful).  But while the media is attacking Kerry on the subject of special interests, they are contradicting themselves by supporting Bush; an embodiment of special interests (e.g. the oil industry, Halliburton, Clear Channel, News Corporation, to name a few).  

Just keep this fact (NOT OPINION, this is not coming from Fantasy land) in mind when you support Bush.  I know I will get attacked on this subject but I don't care, I am breaking my silence and I am happy and proud to do it.  

While I am not clear about who I will support for the nomination, I will say that the Dems need Clark more than he needs them.  

Sleep tight everybody and be sure to vote.

S2DM
 

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Saratoga2DM
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« Reply #906 on: February 08, 2004, 01:14:34 am »

I forgot to mention another Bush special interest:
ENRON.

Later.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #907 on: February 08, 2004, 06:01:01 am »

Edwards is a conservative Democrat from a middle class background?

I never knew that.

I had always thought that he was a populist Democrat from a working class background.

I suppose I'd better bow down before the great knowledge of someone who thinks that WV miners voted en masse for Bush in 2000...

[/end sarcasm]
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minionofmidas - supplemental forum account
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« Reply #908 on: February 08, 2004, 06:16:55 am »

And I thought he was a moderately Conservative Democrat with a working class background.
What's that about WV miners about? The last time anybody in WV voted en masse was for Ukysses S Grant if I remember right. This is a state where the State Supervisor of Elections' (whatever the title, doesn't matter, you know what I mean) website carries or used to carry a banner: "Make Voting a West Virginia rather than a Family Tradition!" Kinda says it all...
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #909 on: February 08, 2004, 07:22:53 am »

Like a lot of people he seems to think that WV miners voted en masse for Bush... though I'm not sure where people get that idiotic idea from...

WV always has a low turnout... especially in the ultra-Democrat south of the state... where something like 90% of all coal in WV is mined.

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tweed
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« Reply #910 on: February 08, 2004, 08:08:55 am »

Like a lot of people he seems to think that WV miners voted en masse for Bush... though I'm not sure where people get that idiotic idea from...

WV always has a low turnout... especially in the ultra-Democrat south of the state... where something like 90% of all coal in WV is mined.
How do you know all this about West Virginia?  I guess you made a good avatar choice Smiley

I think Kerry is a weak candidate, because he starts out with so little and has to fight for everything else.  From the beginning, he has NJ, NY, CT, RI, MA, HI, DC, and that's it.  That's only 76 Ev's, so he has to win the other 194 EV's in battleground or semi-battleground states.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #911 on: February 08, 2004, 08:18:30 am »

Like a lot of people he seems to think that WV miners voted en masse for Bush... though I'm not sure where people get that idiotic idea from...

WV always has a low turnout... especially in the ultra-Democrat south of the state... where something like 90% of all coal in WV is mined.
How do you know all this about West Virginia?  I guess you made a good avatar choice Smiley

I think Kerry is a weak candidate, because he starts out with so little and has to fight for everything else.  From the beginning, he has NJ, NY, CT, RI, MA, HI, DC, and that's it.  That's only 76 Ev's, so he has to win the other 194 EV's in battleground or semi-battleground states.

Lol...he probably knows more about WV than you do about Utah or Wyoming, don't you think? Wink

I think Kerry will do better than that, the country is sufficiently polarized for him to do reasonably well.
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tweed
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« Reply #912 on: February 08, 2004, 08:21:13 am »

I think Kerry will do better than that, the country is sufficiently polarized for him to do reasonably well.
Yes, I do think he will do better than that, but he has to fight for most of what he's got.  Other than Hawaii and the northeast, nothing is safe for him.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #913 on: February 08, 2004, 08:23:45 am »

I think Kerry will do better than that, the country is sufficiently polarized for him to do reasonably well.
Yes, I do think he will do better than that, but he has to fight for most of what he's got.  Other than Hawaii and the northeast, nothing is safe for him.

It depends on how you define safe, few states are ever really safe, but I think Kerry should win states like VT, CA, IL, MD and WA without sweating too much.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #914 on: February 08, 2004, 08:25:57 am »

Also, a new Wisconsin poll is out, showing Bush trailing a generic Democrat 38-54!
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tweed
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« Reply #915 on: February 08, 2004, 08:27:54 am »

Also, a new Wisconsin poll is out, showing Bush trailing a generic Democrat 38-54!
Yeah, I saw that, that's good news.  Steel tariffs hurt us there though Sad

Kerry probably also would win ME, VT, DE, MD, MI, WA, and CA without much work.
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afleitch
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« Reply #916 on: February 08, 2004, 09:30:03 am »

Watching this whole drama unfolding is really interesting. Howrd Dean was the person Democrats wanted to be their candidate, John Kerry is the person they (mostly) want to be their President. Howard Dean captivated so many, but he simply cannot challenge Bush, and since the New Year that has dawned on many. One good result however, is that the turnout for the primaries and caucuses have been exceptionally high, showing us that Democrats and many Independents are HUNGRY for change. They want Bush out. And that is a good thing to remember come November! The press in the UK from tabloid to broadsheet are following this race closely. John Kerry go for it!
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #917 on: February 08, 2004, 09:30:52 am »

Note: by south of state, I don't mean just the Coal District as the 2nd has a few counties high up in the Alleghanies that also produce a fair amount of Coal.
Nothing on Boone, Mingo or Logan scale though.
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Saratoga2DM
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« Reply #918 on: February 08, 2004, 12:06:07 pm »

Afternoon All:

First the issue of coal miners is irrelevent.  I am talking about the candidates and supposed ties to special interests.  Secondly, you are right Edwards is from a working-class background but I always thought he was conservative on some issues.  (I'll have to pay more attention to this) But he has become more of a populist lately.    

While we are on the subject of miners, I think everyone should know that a recent NY TIMES article commented about coal mining companies  resuming strip mining in parts of West Virginia.  

Later all.  


 
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opebo
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« Reply #919 on: February 08, 2004, 12:07:08 pm »

Hello All:

Its been some time since I last posted and a lot has happened.  I think I am ready to say that Howard Dean is probably finished.  But my problem right now is who I am going to support.  I am not to wild about Kerry right now, Edwards is a conservative democrat with a middle-class upbringing, and I think Clark MUST be on the ticket in order for the Dems to beat Bush.  

Right now the media has shifted its attention to Kerry's so-called ties to special interests. (Any information from you good people about this topic, regardless of party affiliation, is helpful).  But while the media is attacking Kerry on the subject of special interests, they are contradicting themselves by supporting Bush; an embodiment of special interests (e.g. the oil industry, Halliburton, Clear Channel, News Corporation, to name a few).  

Just keep this fact (NOT OPINION, this is not coming from Fantasy land) in mind when you support Bush.  I know I will get attacked on this subject but I don't care, I am breaking my silence and I am happy and proud to do it.  

While I am not clear about who I will support for the nomination, I will say that the Dems need Clark more than he needs them.  

Sleep tight everybody and be sure to vote.

S2DM
 

Yeah, yeah - corporations = special interests.  Wrong!  America in case  you haven't noticed, is a capitalist country.  The only thing a corporation ever tried to do to me was sell me some appealing good or service at a reasonable price, or conversely, hire me and pay me money!  Wow - how evil.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #920 on: February 08, 2004, 12:13:29 pm »

The issue of coal miners is relevent as you have shown some appalling ignorence about their voting patterns.

But what has the opinion of the NY Times on strip mining got to do with voting?
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Gustaf
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« Reply #921 on: February 08, 2004, 12:39:35 pm »

Hello All:

Its been some time since I last posted and a lot has happened.  I think I am ready to say that Howard Dean is probably finished.  But my problem right now is who I am going to support.  I am not to wild about Kerry right now, Edwards is a conservative democrat with a middle-class upbringing, and I think Clark MUST be on the ticket in order for the Dems to beat Bush.  

Right now the media has shifted its attention to Kerry's so-called ties to special interests. (Any information from you good people about this topic, regardless of party affiliation, is helpful).  But while the media is attacking Kerry on the subject of special interests, they are contradicting themselves by supporting Bush; an embodiment of special interests (e.g. the oil industry, Halliburton, Clear Channel, News Corporation, to name a few).  

Just keep this fact (NOT OPINION, this is not coming from Fantasy land) in mind when you support Bush.  I know I will get attacked on this subject but I don't care, I am breaking my silence and I am happy and proud to do it.  

While I am not clear about who I will support for the nomination, I will say that the Dems need Clark more than he needs them.  

Sleep tight everybody and be sure to vote.

S2DM
 

Yeah, yeah - corporations = special interests.  Wrong!  America in case  you haven't noticed, is a capitalist country.  The only thing a corporation ever tried to do to me was sell me some appealing good or service at a reasonable price, or conversely, hire me and pay me money!  Wow - how evil.


As long as corporations keep to their business, it isn't much to wory about. But they are people as well, and they have interests. This is apparent in the Swedish business organization, which is run by stupid bureaucrats, rather than competent business men.
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Saratoga2DM
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« Reply #922 on: February 08, 2004, 12:49:53 pm »

Realpolitik:

To answer your question go to the West Virginia Geological Survey website at

www.wvgs.wvnet.edu/www/index.html
look under special features for information abou the history of the coal mining industry.  The site also has a lot of interesting maps about bitominous coal deposits all over the state.  

Also here is an article about Coal miners and supporting Bush. its on an environmental website but the author works for the Washington Times.

go to: www.enn.com/news/wire-stories/2000/10/10112000/krt_wvminers_32429.asp

Hope this helps you get an understanding about my position.  

 

 
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #923 on: February 08, 2004, 01:23:32 pm »

Actually very few miners switched to the GOP.
What killed Gore was the fact that a lot stayed at home, add that to the Steel Workers switching to Bush (but they will probably "come home" this year), and a higher turnout amoung Republicans (37% of the WV electorate) and that was that.

I was familier with the WVGS' website, but the only party affected by Mountain Top Mining is the Mountain Party.
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opebo
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« Reply #924 on: February 08, 2004, 02:07:27 pm »

Actually very few miners switched to the GOP.
What killed Gore was the fact that a lot stayed at home, add that to the Steel Workers switching to Bush (but they will probably "come home" this year), and a higher turnout amoung Republicans (37% of the WV electorate) and that was that.

I was familier with the WVGS' website, but the only party affected by Mountain Top Mining is the Mountain Party.


Why would Coal Miners vote Democrat?  The Dems are ecological nuts who would close coal power generation if they could.  Personally I'm pro-coal.
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