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Author Topic: Barack Obama  (Read 20518 times)
elcorazon
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« on: October 16, 2006, 09:31:06 AM »


correct.  and completely unacceptable to mainstream america.

if illinois had a republican party, he wouldnt be in the senate today.

Yep. I think Jack Ryan would have given him a very good run if his wasn't surrounded by scandal.

I remember thinking Obama was very liberal two years ago but if you say the same thing today, people will laugh at you. Everyone thinks he is a moderate just as they think John Edwards is, too.

The thing is though that in politics perception is reality.

It doesn't matter whether Obama is liberal or not, the only thing that matters is what people think he is. Someone who is charismatic and personable can make themsevles seem more moderate than they really are (look at Ronald Reagan as the best example of that).

Hillary Clinton has the opposite problem, in that she is perceived as being far to the left when in reality she isn't. But again, it doesn't matter, she's still just as unelectable.
all true.  You people give the voters WAY too much  credit.  Most don't even understand the terms liberal and conservative.  They vote on feel, and Obama is a likable guy.  You are all wrong, pretty much about Obama too.  He's very likable and likely would have beaten any challengers in that senate race.  Admittedly, beating Keyes meant nothing, but running for president isn't something that's based on who has the best resume and who's "ready".  I mean Clinton's resume wasn't the best; neither was Bush, Jr.  Gore's resume was perfect, and he lost.

I think he's going to run; the biggest stumbling block to him running is fear of Hillary, I think.
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elcorazon
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« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2006, 03:24:13 PM »

So, it's looking more and more like Obama's running.  I think he's got a legit shot at the nomination.  If he gets it, who's his veep.  Bayh? Richardson? Biden?  I think he should pick someone who hasn't got the "liberal" tag tied to them, and who has some gravitas from a foreign policy perspective.  thoughts?
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elcorazon
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« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2006, 11:07:28 PM »


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0610180130oct18,1,3559589.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed
Obama dips toe in 2008 waters
Toll on his family called key concern
 Advertisement
 
 
 
 
 
By Jill Zuckman, Washington Bureau. Tribune staff reporter Mitch Dudek in Chicago contributed to this report

October 18, 2006

WASHINGTON -- While Sen. Barack Obama launches the most public of book tours, with appearances on "Oprah Winfrey," the "Today" show, "Larry King Live" and "Meet the Press," he also is more intensively examining whether to run for president in 2008, reaching out to Democratic operatives and trying to reconcile the demands of a national campaign on his family.

Obama (D-Ill.) has been having quiet conversations with colleagues and friends about a prospective White House run, but a key concern is whether his wife, Michelle, would support it and whether he could manage the time away from their two young daughters.

"He has gotten the presidential bug bite," said Donna Brazile, campaign manager for Al Gore in 2000. "Barack is constantly calling, he's constantly talking to people. He's not calling me to check on the weather. I'm not saying he's in, but he's checking the water. He's having lots of conversations." Brazile said she is scheduled to talk politics with Obama shortly after Election Day.

Sen. Dick Durbin, Illinois' senior Democratic senator and a strong proponent of an Obama presidential bid, said his colleague has learned more about international affairs and the workings of the federal government in his brief Senate career than most governors who run for president. Staying in the Senate, Durbin said, will only provide opponents with more targets as Obama continues to cast votes.

"I said to him, `Do you really think sticking around the Senate for four more years and casting a thousand more votes will make you more qualified for president?'" Durbin said. "The critical element that remains that he has to face is whether he is willing to be separated from his family for longer periods of time and I think he is staring that right in the face."

`No one else of interest'

He's also drawing plenty of stares from fans who have rushed to have him sign a copy of his new book, "The Audacity of Hope." The signings kicked off Tuesday in Chicago. Applause greeted him as he entered the third floor of the Michigan Avenue Borders. Hundreds of people had formed a line starting at 6 a.m.

"For me, there's no one else of interest," said Cheryl Hammock, 60, a Gold Coast resident. "I hope he's the next president."

That is just the kind of talk that fans the speculation about him running.

But David Axelrod, Obama's political consultant, said people should not read too much into a publicity tour crafted by the senator's publisher.

"He is not initiating calls on this," Axelrod said. "People call him all the time and he gives them a respectful hearing. I really don't think he's going to focus on this question at all until after Nov. 7."

Other political professionals, however, expressed skepticism that Obama's treatise on how America can move beyond its divisions to find common ground could be considered anything but a campaign platform.

"There's a political connection between the book he's written and the campaign he will run," said Tom Rath, the Republican national committeeman in New Hampshire. "It's awfully hard to go into some of these places and do what he's doing and say it's all about the book."

Obama has drawn national attention since he delivered the keynote address at the Democratic National Convention in 2004, won his Senate seat and came to Washington. From the day of his arrival, there has been at least simmering speculation about a presidential run, and his appeal has only grown.

Just two years into a Senate career, but with a much higher and more positive profile than most senators, Obama also has been raising large amounts of money and earning other political capital by campaigning for fellow Democrats. In a 12-day period in October, he raised $2 million, aides said.

Yet the book puts the focus almost exclusively on him, providing him with millions of dollars' worth of free publicity, largely in non-confrontational, friendly forums. If the book is popular--and already it is No. 15 on the Amazon.com list--it could help him in ways that Sen. John McCain's best-selling memoir, "Faith of Our Fathers," fueled his presidential campaign in 2000.

"It takes it to the next level, it gives you a platform and it gives you a little cover for testing the presidential waters," said Dean Spiliotes, a political science professor at the New Hampshire Institute of Politics at St. Anselm College. "You can go to all the places but say, `Hey, I'm just talking about my book right now.'"

At political events too

While playing the role of senator-author one day, Obama is often headlining political events the next. On Monday, Obama flew to Indianapolis with Rep. Rahm Emanuel (D-Ill.) to raise money for three Democratic candidates in some of the nation's most competitive House races. Emanuel, the chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, said they talked about races around the country and what needed to be done over the next three weeks--not about a presidential bid.

Sen. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.), chairman of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, said Obama has done everything Democratic leaders have asked him to, traveling to 20 or 30 states this year.

"He's the star. He is in such demand," Schumer said. "He is in greater demand than any other person that we have to offer."

And in campaigning for others, Obama is also subtly campaigning for himself.

"He's got the book, Oprah, [Tim] Russert--his time intellectually and emotionally is about the elections and about the book," Emanuel said. "That doesn't mean he's not considering it. A lot of people are talking to him. You can't go to the airport without seeing it--it's on the cover of Time."

Indeed, Obama's face fills the cover of Time magazine, with bold letters asserting "Why Barack Obama Could be the Next President." On Sunday, he will appear on "Meet the Press" with Russert, following a week of book and media appearances, including Charlie Rose, "Hannity & Colmes" and "Countdown with Keith Olbermann."

Shifting statements on future

In between, Obama will campaign for Chicago native Deval Patrick, the Democratic nominee for governor in Massachusetts, help House candidates in Philadelphia and rally for Jim Pederson for Senate in Arizona, to name just a few stops.

Obama partisans insist that the senator is simply trying to help out, and the publicity just happens to be ginned up by his publisher. But it comes when his statements about his presidential ambitions appear to be shifting substantially.

Last January, on "Meet the Press," Obama told Russert, "I will serve out my full six-year term," adding that his thinking had not changed since he took office.

"So you will not run for president or vice president in 2008?" Russert asked.

"I will not," Obama said.

In May, he told the Tribune that "there are people who think I should make an announcement tomorrow that I'm running for the presidency.

"I tell them," he said, "that I'm focusing on my job as a senator from Illinois."

Now, however, he has told Time that he will revisit the question in November.

"When the election is over and my book tour is done, I will think about how I can be most useful to the country and how I can reconcile that with being a good dad and a good husband," Obama said. "I haven't completely decided or unraveled that puzzle yet."

----------

jzuckman@tribune.com

Now he might not run, but I really don't see why if he did run, he couldn't get the nomination.  You think he's scared of Evan Bayh?

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elcorazon
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« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2006, 11:21:05 PM »

His middle name is Hussein, for crying out loud. 

Hussein Osama....er....
now there's some in depth analysis, there.
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elcorazon
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« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2006, 09:37:25 AM »

what a hack.
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elcorazon
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« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2006, 10:03:35 AM »

I meant noonan, but it could certainly have applied to you as well.

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elcorazon
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« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2006, 10:52:12 AM »

your contempt for the voter knows no bounds. You think Jews are so dumb they won't vote for Obama because his name is derived from Arabic?

He's NOT a muslim.  People LIKE him.  Illinois is actually not all that liberal a state, even the Democrats, and he dominated in the primary even, even downstate, which is basically like Indiana.  The guy is appealing.  He may not win, but to dismiss him based merely on his name, is truly ignorant.
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elcorazon
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« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2006, 11:16:33 AM »

your contempt for the voter knows no bounds. You think Jews are so dumb they won't vote for Obama because his name is derived from Arabic?

He's NOT a muslim.  People LIKE him.  Illinois is actually not all that liberal a state, even the Democrats, and he dominated in the primary even, even downstate, which is basically like Indiana.  The guy is appealing.  He may not win, but to dismiss him based merely on his name, is truly ignorant.

I didn't dismiss him on name only.  I could have mentioned he is also a Dem, a party that has won only 3 of the last 10 presidential races.  And I never said he was a Muslim; if he were, you and I wouldn't be having this conversation.

But don't let me dissuade you...please nominate him!

well, I'm pretty sure anyone nominated by the Democratic Party will be a dem, and based on your keen math skills will be subject to the 3 in 10 chance you seem to ascribe to them.

No you never said he was a muslim, just that Jews won't vote for someone named Hussein, and southerners won't vote for someone named Barack.

As much as I have my issues with the American voter, I don't believe they are that stupid.
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elcorazon
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« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2006, 12:34:03 PM »

There's a difference between using language that might help the public perceive you in a more favorable light (all politicians do this all the time, as do advertisers, etc.), and saying that a person's name makes him unelectable.  And, yes, even adding the other factors you mention, doesn't really change your point.

Ultimately, and I may be alone in thinking this, but I think Obama's race may very well help him as much as it hurts him.  I suspect he'll get out the black vote fairly well, and many who will run from him for the reasons you cite weren't likely Dem voters anyway.

Not sure what any of this has to do with softness on national defense, nor how accurate your theory is about these elections, but I will say this, the Republicans have certainly been more successful than the dems in presidential elections since 1968.  Maybe the country doesn't like dems; that might be true.  Not sure which Dem you think is more electable, but I think Obama's underrated in terms of his electability.
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elcorazon
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« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2006, 02:47:41 PM »

The press loves Obama because he is the embodiment of their dreams... mixed racially, culturally, politically leftist but inclined to disguise it with lots of moderate-speak.

Obama does possess above-average intelligence and speaking ability. He is highly ambitious but his overall credentials are so weak right now that you wonder if he really plans on running in 2008.


The press loves Obama because he has a pulse. The press loves Obama because he's got charisma.  The press loves Obama because people who listen to him speak are moved by him.

The press is following the story, that's all.

Obama's resume is razor thin, but really is it any thinner than W's was?  or Kennedy's or Clinton's really.  The bottom line is appealing to the voters.  Most of that is charisma, charm, etc.  Intelligence helps (although isn't required); it also helps to have themes people can relate to, but most people don't want long winded treatises on specific policies, just a feeling that the guy knows what he's doing and his heart is in the right place.
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elcorazon
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« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2006, 03:42:19 PM »

The press loves Obama because he is the embodiment of their dreams... mixed racially, culturally, politically leftist but inclined to disguise it with lots of moderate-speak.

Obama does possess above-average intelligence and speaking ability. He is highly ambitious but his overall credentials are so weak right now that you wonder if he really plans on running in 2008.


The press loves Obama because he has a pulse. The press loves Obama because he's got charisma.  The press loves Obama because people who listen to him speak are moved by him.

The press is following the story, that's all.

Obama's resume is razor thin, but really is it any thinner than W's was?  or Kennedy's or Clinton's really.  The bottom line is appealing to the voters.  Most of that is charisma, charm, etc.  Intelligence helps (although isn't required); it also helps to have themes people can relate to, but most people don't want long winded treatises on specific policies, just a feeling that the guy knows what he's doing and his heart is in the right place.

Yeah, his resume is a lot thinner than those guys.
W had been a professional partier, owned the Rangers, then inexplicably found himself to be the low-impact governor of Texas.  Never had an iota of foreign policy experience at all.  At least Obama has had to move up the ranks in politics, rather than being annointed by his daddy's cronies.
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elcorazon
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« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2006, 04:26:50 PM »

Bush was considered an underdog against Ann Richards. He wasn't "anointed" so much as Bud Selig was dragging his feet with regard to his plans, so Bush decided to run for Gov. Being a Governor is much, much more similar to the Presidency than being a legislator. Voters have strongly expressed that sentiment for decades.

The Bush family's plan was for Jeb to win in '94 and then run for President in 2000. His loss, and W's win, changed that formula. But it's factually wrong to claim W was the heir apparent all along.
Obama was a serious underdog in the dem primaries in Illinios.  Not sure how that's relevant though.  Maybe he wasn't the "planned president" initially, but he was certainly the one they ultimately chose to be the guy, rather than someone who had to make his own way in politics.

The only thing making Obama the man of the moment is the force of his own personality.
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elcorazon
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« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2006, 01:30:02 PM »

experience is a crock.  how exactly does 4 more years in the senate make one more able to perform as president.  we don't elect experience.  we elect people.  The person is who is the president.  I hope he runs.  I think he'll run.  I hope he wins.  I think he'll win.  I also believe he'll be a good president if he gets that far.  I hope he's not at the back of the ticket.  I think he's wasted there.
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elcorazon
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« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2006, 09:48:43 AM »

Good lord people, Obama for President? Obviously a bunch of Dems went to him and said "save us from the Hillary disaster because no way can we talk her out of running".   

You gotta love the media hype on a guy who has served a total of two years in national government.  It's just plain funny.
How many years in national gov't did W have?  or Clinton? or Reagan? or Carter?
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elcorazon
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« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2006, 04:24:00 PM »

How many years in national gov't did W have?  or Clinton? or Reagan? or Carter?

All had at least six years as Governor before taking office, three of them in some of the largest states in the country. Obama has two years serving in the Senate, four by the time he'd take office. No President, hell, no major party candidate for President has had less experience before taking office. Let Obama simmer in the Senate for at least one re-election campaign and see whether he actually is something more than charisma in a suit.
last I checked governor's NOT a national office.  Not saying those guys weren't qualified, just saying that Obama's lack of NATIONAL experience is no different than MANY Presidents.

No doubt he's inexperienced.  You know what.  I've been operating on the angle that the voters are a bit too focused on surface issues, but you know what, maybe the voters are actually going to be perceptive in this case.  Maybe they (I) wil say that all these "insiders" with "experience" are getting us deeper and deeper into trouble, so maybe getting someone not so entrenched in "national politics" is a good thing.

Bring a fresh attitude to Washington.  I actually think that (the fresh non-Washington approach) is a bigger reason that governors do so well, relative to Senators, as opposed to the Executive vs. Legislative distinction.
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