Confederate States

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Why in the world would Arkansas be in the union? Also, Maryland would have gone to the Confederacy as well.

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Why in the world would Arkansas be in the union? Also, Maryland would have gone to the Confederacy as well.

Not Maryland. Only if the CSA Army had been able to capture Anapolis or Baltimore. The Maryland Assembly voted on session in December 1861, andit was voted down.

Baltimore wouldn't have needed to be captured. It was VERY confederate friendly. And actually Maryland voted not to vote on secession.

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The Battle of Antitem came because of Lee's plan to get Maryland in the CSA.

And? That does not mean the majority of Maryland was against the south or secession. Well it IS a part of the south so I guess it can't be against itself. lol

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Do you think that if the Confederates had won, they would've taken parts of Mexico?

Yes. And Cuba. Google "Knights of the Gold Circle".

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Do you think that if the Confederates had won, they would've taken parts of Mexico?

Yes. And Cuba. Google "Knights of the Gold Circle".

They might have wanted Cuba, but I don't think that they could have taken it from Spain.  Mexico would have had to wait until Maximillian was gone and I think that the Union would certainly have given Mexico enough support to defend itself.  The CSA would want such territory, but it would not have been able to gain it by either force or persuasion.

It's all speculation really. If the war had ended in 1862 then it would have been perfectly feasible because the CSA had a somewhat "working" navy and a decently supplied army. If the south had won in 1865 (Due to Lincoln losing the election or being killed by Booth, when he should have done it) then I would say it wouldn't have been feasible. What killed the south, and I repeat myself again, were the lack of railroads, plain and simple. The North had punished the south economically so bad before the war that it crippled the south. Also Ernest, I do see you are from the greatest state in the south. Ever been to Sumter?

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The reason I think Maryland would not join the CSA was because the peopke of Maryland just didn't want to. If you remember right, in 1862 while invading Maryland Lee's Army of Northern Virginia played "Oh Maryland, My Maryland" to try to start a revolt. The tactic did not work, but backfired as the CSA playing the state's anthem angered many citizens of the state. Tactic kind of backfired, didn't it Marse Lee?

That was western Maryland. It was a heavy germanic area that was fiercly unionist. Eastern Maryland consisted of mostly old timer families who have lived their since the 1600s and were fiercly southern in their ideals.

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Has anyone here taken my suggestion and googled "Knights of the Golden Circle". Very interesting!

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Ernest, I do see you are from the greatest state in the south. Ever been to Sumter?

Yes, I've been to Sumter several times.  However, I'm fairly netural when it comes to the Second American Revolution, perhaps because my paternal ancestors were in Canada at the time, their ancestors having moved there after ending up on the losing side of the First American Revolution.    (I was born in the Sunshine state, tho.)

I can't see the war ending in 1862 with a Confederate victory, not with Lincoln as President.  The only realistic chance the south had of winning in 1862 was if there was British recognition, and the only way that could have happened would have been with a Union President who was politically inept enough to let the Trent affair get out of hand.  Say what you will about Lincoln, he was not politically inept, especially to that degree.

If Lee had pushed the advantage at Second Manassas and had crushed the Federal Army at Chantilly the road to DC would have been wide open. Also, if the special orders hadn't been lost Lee would have done a LOT more damage then he did. I believe that Britian was about to recognize the CSA. But do I believe that would have been a good thing? Absolutely not. I believe they would have taken upon our mutual weakness and retaken the colonies. They still did drool over us at that point.

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At most Lee would have gotten to the outskirts of Washington, to the forts manned by the Heavy Artillery units.  The idea that the Army of Northern Virginia could have taken Washington, DC in 1862 is pure fantasy.  Just as Richmond took a long seige to take, so would have Washington, and the Confederate Army could never have won on a protracted seige because the Union reserves would be mobilzed to break it before it could succeed.  Lee's retreat sfter his invasion would always provide the situation for Lincoln to announce the Emancipation Proclaimation and once that Proclaimation was received in London, any chance that London would recognize the CSA before Washington did was gone.

And that's the only reason why it was announced because the E.P. didn't actually free any slaves.

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If Jackson gets the rest he needs, when does he have time to launch the attack?

In the event of a complete federal collapse on the pennisula, there is no way that Lincoln would have let Pope take the Army of Virginia out of the Washington defenses.  If Lincoln had a fault in this war, it was that he was overly protective of Washington, but with good reason.  Also Lee would not have captured the artillery train intact, altho the Union could have been compelled to destroy it to prevent its capture.  Yes, Lee could have conducted a raid into the north, but his own supply situation could not have allowed him to hold territory there. Lack of ammunition would compel him to return south of the Potomac and he could not have carried off much in the way of other supplies with his army.

Finally, what does recognition gain the CSA?  Not much.  Neither England or France would have actually gone to war over cotton.  It would have made it easier for the CSA to buy naval raiders from the Liverpool shipyards, but the ones they did buy were enough to force most of the US merchant fleet to fly to other flags.  Before the Civil War the US merchant fleet was the largest in the world.  It never recovered that lost position after the War.

The CS Navy sunk more tonnage per ship then any other navy in modern history.

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The souths failure points and this is the last time I repost this.

1) Lees' lost orders being found.
2) Failure to take advantage of the Second Manassas Union collapse. They could have devastated the AoP at Chantilly.
3) The failure to entrap the Union army against the Rappahanock at Chancerlorsville. They DID have the ability to do that.
4) JEB Stuarts failure to re-unite with the Confederate Army early on the 1st day of Gettysburg. Although it would have not been a deciding victory for the CSA it would have been a humiliation to be beat on "home territory".
5) The Confederate Government had plenty of food and supplies to feed and clothe the army (unlike what school books tell you). The failure was Georgia and North Carolina protesting sending the supplies (extreme states rights) and the deterioration of the internal railroads.
6) Complete lack of any (successful)fight by the western armies.
7) The death blow for the confederate army will come as a shock to some here. The Battle of Five Forks. Yes Yes I know it happened in April '65 but the Confederate lines were actually holding up well and a organized retreat was in the works. The collapse of this critical juncture doomed the Confederacy. (Thanks to a shad bake)

Other minor failures :
a) C.S.S. Hunley
b) Failure to make use of the advantage the CSS Virginia had on the first day.
c) Shiloh
d) <sigh> Jefferson C Davis and his failure to form a cooperative bond with generals other then Lee.

The west lost the south the war.

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2) Failure to take advantage of the Second Manassas Union collapse. They could have devastated the AoP at Chantilly.

That's a negative.  Pope's command was not the Army of the Potomac, it was the Army of Virginia, a smaller command of about 50,000 men.  Lee's whole objective in fighting Second Manassas was to annihilate Pope's command before it could link up with the 90,000 man Army of the Potomac which was still in Washington.  McClellan was still in command.  They teach in school, however, that McClellan was relived in favor of Pope and then McClellan came back, because that is easier to understand, though quite inaccurate.

Sorry my memory is getting rusty. sigh You are correct.

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4- Likely result is the Union pulls back and seeks battle elsewhere.

Yep! Rock Creek running along the MD/PA border.

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4- Likely result is the Union pulls back and seeks battle elsewhere.

Yep! Rock Creek running along the MD/PA border.

Sorry to contradict you again, but I thought that Meade's Orders were to pull back to Pipe Creek.

I believe it was actually both.

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The reason I say Rock creek is because I know someone that lives on the banks and a sign is up by their house that says it's was a fallback point. And if you want to see Civil War History look at my wifes family tree!! Good grief she has almost 70 CSA ancestors. Trederick what part of NC are you from? My wifes family is from the Wilson area. Waddells and Jones (which one? lol). They are tobacco farmers, though not so much anymore. One of her ancestors owned almost 800 slaves in the Orangeburg district of SC.

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I disagree. Both sides were equally drilled. The problem was the flow of new recruits on both sides caused discipline problems. Gilliams tactics were FAR superior to Hardees (what a lousy book). I have read both and they are very interesting.

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The reason I say Rock creek is because I know someone that lives on the banks and a sign is up by their house that says it's was a fallback point. And if you want to see Civil War History look at my wifes family tree!! Good grief she has almost 70 CSA ancestors. Trederick what part of NC are you from? My wifes family is from the Wilson area. Waddells and Jones (which one? lol). They are tobacco farmers, though not so much anymore. One of her ancestors owned almost 800 slaves in the Orangeburg district of SC.

Originally from Long Island, currently living in Raleigh.

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Joe Johnston and PGT Beauregard. What a duo! Davis did not like either, what a fool he was.

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wow, I thought i knew a lot about the civil war {much more than my schoolmates}, but I know very little compared to yall  

I know very little. The civil war is a ongoing study.

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Can someone tell me how to create and post maps on this forum?

You can create maps through Paint on your computer. You have to have a website or have someone you know host the picture for you. Check out www.freewebs.com that's who I use. Once you upload a picture or want to use a picture from any site this is how you post it here..

1) Right click over the picture
2) Go down to properties
3) Highlight the section that says Address
4) Click Copy
5) Go to the normal post reply, click paste.
6) Around the link put the following [ img ]  and at the end of the link put this [ /img ]. Except you need to close the [] against the phrase img.