Question to Gustaf and other European Posters

[MarkDel]

Gustaf and other European Posters,

I post at this site and several other forums that discuss American Politics, and at ALL of these forums, there are a shockingly high number of European posters who spend significant periods of time arguing about US politics. Can you please explain to me why you guys would spend so much time discussing the politics of another country, and why you think you are in any way qualified to make judgements concerning complex issues of American politics in light of the fact that you don't live in this country? I find this incredible. I would never go on a forum in England and try to tell Brits why the inhabitants of Leeds vote a certain way because I've never been there, so what makes it OK for you to try and tell me how people might vote in Alabama or South Dakota???

I find this trend of European posters very interesting, because they all fit the same modus operandi when it comes to their political ideology and posting style. Virtually 100% of the time they are well educated and decidedly LEFT of center in terms of their political ideology, always possessing a subtle anti-americanism that they generally hide very well until the debate gets heated.

So perhaps some of the European posters here could tell me what motivates them to spend so much time posting about American politics and why they feel qualified to have such strongly held opinions about something which they generally have little or no personal experience with?

I'm not trying to provoke a fight or be a jerk, but I am curious and looking for a coherent explanation. Thanks.

[MarkDel]

Realpolitik,

Leeds was merely an example used to illustrate a point. I just as easily could have said Marseilles or Barcelona, or....How about addressing the real question?

[MarkDel]

Gustaf/Michael Z.,

I believe ALL of the available polling data will find that there's more anti-Americanism in Europe than vice versa. Americans LOVE European tourists and I can tell you that I was NOT loved when I went to Europe. I spent most of the time being told how arrogant we were as a people and how the United States was intruding on their culture. As for our attitude towards Europeans, it's extremely positive except for France.

[MarkDel]

Miami,

I'm not JMF whoever that is.

[MarkDel]

Miami,

I know you think you are being terribly clever with this Sherlock Holmes thing about "JMF" but I am NOT this person. I just recently found this site less than two weeks ago and was not aware that there were past discussions on this "european" subject. If you like, please ask the moderator of this forum to check my IP address against this other poster. Contrary to what you might think, the questions I presented were not unique to one individual in terms of relevance.

Gustaf,

I love it. I'm arrogant...thanks for proving my point.

[MarkDel]

Gusta,

You are building a "straw man" argument that I did not make in my previous posts. I didn't say you were not SMART enough to discuss some issues related to American politics, I just stated that you might not be familiar enough with certain aspects of them. For example, I find it hilarious when posters like yourself try to comment on what might happen and why it might happen in certain Southern states that you wouldn't visit at gunpoint because of the alleged lack of culture in those states.

[MarkDel]

Michael Z,

Thank you for two very intelligent and accurate posts. I totally agree with you, it is dangerous and unfair to lump all people from a nation or continent together. That was not my intention and I'm sorry if it came across that way. I was referring specifically to certain posters here who all seemed to have similar political ideology.

I especially appreciate your admission that there is widespread anti-americanism in parts of Europe, and I appreciate even more your comment at the end about America and Europe being great long term allies. I agree with you and I assure you that until very, very recently, virtually all Americans shared our view. Unfortunately, a growing number of continental Europeans, including many of the most prominent leaders like Chirac, Schroeder, Fischer, etc...seem to believe that the post-Cold War world must be seen in different terms because the world is no longer "bi-polar" in terms of US and Soviet Union. The view of leaders like Chirac, and many prominent European academicians, suggest that the new world will include a bi-polar tension between the United States and Europe based on economic self-interest in the global economy. Thus anything which makes America weaker helps Europe. This is an unfortunate view, but it essentially explains the behavior of France and other nations. And when European nations take this dim view of US/Euro relations, the Neo-Conservatives (of which I am one) are forced to react in a rational manner and accept this as an unavoidable shift in international relations. This is VERY, VERY unfortunate, because the world will always be FAR safer when the United States and Europe are strong allies. But unless there is a change in the foreign policy of many European nations, this is the path we seem to be heading down in the 21st Century, and we head down this path to the peril of the entire world.

[MarkDel]

Gustaf,

You are right about France over the long haul, though I find it amazing that the Mitterand government was actually "softer" on America than the Chirac government.

Unfortunately, it's not just France. Germany, Belgium, Switzerland, etc....all have taken this path. And it will happen in Spain as well once Azonar is out of power, and perhaps in Italy when the Bertulosconi years have passed.

And it's not just the leaders, it's rank and file citizens. How else can you explain polls which indicate that Europeans are essentially equally divided on the question of who constitutes the bigger threat to them...the United States or Islamic Terrorism?

[MarkDel]

Gustaf,

If any American takes the position that European support is irrelevant, then they are taking a very limited approach to complex problems. We may not NEED European help to defeat Global terrorism, we may have the military might and will (?) to do so all on our own, but WHY IN THE HELL WOULD WE NOT WANT HELP!!! The world will always be a better and safer place when the US and Europe cooperate.

[MarkDel]

Huck Finn,

I also spelled John Kerry's name wrong in another thread today. Does misspelling someone's name constitute a lack of knowledge of that person? Do you dispute the fact that Aznar and Berlusconi are more pro-American than the average citizens in their respective nations? That, of course, was my main point, not the correct or incorrect spelling of their surnames.

[MarkDel]

Afleitch,

Yes, you are perfectly entitled to say and think whatever you want. But...you tell me to think before I lash out...how about you try and READ before you lash out. Please tell me where I said you don't have the RIGHT to post. All I questioned was the wisdom of it for certain posters.

And some posters (Gustaf, Huck Finn, etc...) proved to me that despite my reservations, they DO have informed opinions despite their lack of knowledge about certain factors involved in regional politics. BUT...your comments in your last post here suggest that you may NOT represent a useful opinion. Your use of the "Joe Redneck" phrase immediately tells me that you are a classic cultural elitist who has pre-disposed views of the American electorate which are neither accurate nor helpful to any discussion. Still, you have the RIGHT to post and say whatever you want...just as I have the RIGHT to tell you that you may not know what you're talking about.

[MarkDel]

Amvanveen,

I certainly understand your point and I agree with most of it. However, I'm not certain that I agree with the phrase that the US is trying to influence the politics and economic outcomes in all nations. You would certainly be right if you were referring to non-democratic rogue nations like Iran, Syria, etc...but I don't think the US does anything to try and influence legitimate political elections in places like France, England, etc...

I have never seen a US President or high government official make a statement endorsing one party over another in a Democratic nation. I guess the closest this came to happening was in the 1990's when Bill Clinton sent James Carville and other "political operatives" to work against the Likud Party in the Israeli Election for Prime Minister, but this is certainly the exception instead of the rule.

[MarkDel]

Afleitch,

Perhaps you could enlighten me as to what specific policies of the Republican Party are so awful?

[MarkDel]

Afleitch,

So if I understand your answer, you don't like the Republican Party because they are religious and opposed to abortion. So you allow symbolic issues that have little or no bearing on your life to lead you to draw broad conclusions about the viability of the entire party? Perhaps you could point out to me the legislation proposed by a Republican President that would OUTLAW ALL abortion? Or maybe you could point out the legislation proposed by a Republican President that would make it mandatory for US schools to teach biblical creation in classrooms?

The issues that you point out are issues of legitimate intellectual disagreement here in the United States, but the mainstream Republican Party does not push these issues in such a way that they would be MANDATED on the general population. Some far right wingers in the party do...but President Bush himself has stated that this nation is not yet ready to do away with abortion.

And as for your point on guns...well...gun confiscation has worked soooooo well for your country. Why don't you tell me what has happened to your violent crime, murder and gun crime rates since 1996???

Gun Control is the dumbest concept in the history of mankind. Let's think of the logic behind it...

Ok...we have a problem with CRIMINALS using guns...so why don't we make it a CRIMINAL act to possess a gun...that way, the people who WANT to commit crimes will be deterred from committing them because they'll be afraid to commit a CRIME by securing a gun. That's "circular logic" that might come out of the mouth of a 5-year old, yet is taken as gospel by proponents of Gun Control.