Banning guns doesn't prevent criminals from getting them anyway. Who knew?

[tpfkaw]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12279177

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I see the point you're trying to make here... but as usual, you're adding 2+3 and assuming the answer is 4.

[Lief 🗽]

You're saying prohibiting _______ doesn't prevent criminals from doing _________? Eye-opening, shocking stuff, wormo.

[Lunar]

I'm not sure if anything is made illegal with the explicit goal of preventing all criminals from being able to get access to said item. 

[Associate Justice PiT]

I'm not sure if anything is made illegal with the explicit goal of preventing all criminals from being able to get access to said item. 

     Of course, but isn't gun control rather pointless if the people most likely to use guns to commit crime are still able to get them & are able to do so more easily than those who have no inclination to commit crime?

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Who are ´criminals´?

I believe you speak in tautologies, sir.

[dead0man]

<opebo hat>
Criminals are just victims with balls.
</opebo>

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Even if handguns were still legal here it would be highly illegal to smuggle them in from America.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Even if handguns were still legal here it would be highly illegal to smuggle them in from America.

Hmm.

While I must admit be being an enthusiast for the 1911A1, I must also admit that many of the world's finest semiautomatic pistols come from central Europe (Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Czech Republic).

Seems like it would be easier to smuggle them in from the continent.

Oh, and if a Peshawar tribesman can manufacture a highly functional semiautomatic pistol with hand tools, I suspect that there just might be some Brits left with the competence to replicate such performance.

[Silent Hunter]

Oh, and if a Peshawar tribesman can manufacture a highly functional semiautomatic pistol with hand tools, I suspect that there just might be some Brits left with the competence to replicate such performance.

I also believe there's some knock-off Kalashnikov makers in that part of the world.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Oh, and if a Peshawar tribesman can manufacture a highly functional semiautomatic pistol with hand tools, I suspect that there just might be some Brits left with the competence to replicate such performance.

I also believe there's some knock-off Kalashnikov makers in that part of the world.

They make just about anything there with hand tools.

Heck, a few years ago a kid made a 'slap-shot' shotgun in shop class in thirty minutes using commonly available materials.

[memphis]

So, what the gun murder rate in the UK vs US?

[Marokai Backbeat]

So, what the gun murder rate in the UK vs US?

Hush. Everyone knows that if laws aren't 100% effective in every case, then the law is useless and government should step aside!

[Linus Van Pelt]

Banning theft doesn't prevent criminals from stealing things anyway! <link to story about a burglary>

Banning murder doesn't prevent criminals from killing people anyway! <link to story about a murder>

Banning fraud doesn't prevent criminals from scamming anyway! (https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=109091.0)

SHUT DOWN TEH CRIMINAL LAW

Fail.

[Redalgo]

The number of people murdered in the US per capita each year appears to be about three times higher than in the UK. I don't know how many of the murders are committed using guns though.

[Silent Hunter]

I don't know how many of the murders are committed using guns though.

Not that many in the UK; it's mostly knives these days.

I also believe that Harold Shipman skewed a few years' worth of UK murder statistics.

[Bacon King]

The number of people murdered in the US per capita each year appears to be about three times higher than in the UK. I don't know how many of the murders are committed using guns though.

Once again, you need to factor in the rather different composition of the population in the United States for a realistic comparison.

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_43.html

Let me give you a chance to clarify, Carl. Are you actually suggesting that the United States has a higher crime rate than the United Kingdom because there are more black people here? Really?

[Bacon King]

The number of people murdered in the US per capita each year appears to be about three times higher than in the UK. I don't know how many of the murders are committed using guns though.

Once again, you need to factor in the rather different composition of the population in the United States for a realistic comparison.

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_43.html

Let me give you a chance to clarify, Carl. Are you actually suggesting that the United States has a higher crime rate than the United Kingdom because there are more black people here? Really?

[CARLHAYDEN]

The number of people murdered in the US per capita each year appears to be about three times higher than in the UK. I don't know how many of the murders are committed using guns though.

Once again, you need to factor in the rather different composition of the population in the United States for a realistic comparison.

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_43.html

Let me give you a chance to clarify, Carl. Are you actually suggesting that the United States has a higher crime rate than the United Kingdom because there are more black people here? Really?

No.

Please reread what I posted.

'Crime' rates are really pretty soft numbers, whereas "murder and nonnegligent homocide" numbers are (while imperfect), far more reliable numbers.

Now, I gave you the url, which has the numbers.

The math really isn't too difficult.

Do you need a url for the U.S. population to use?

[Redalgo]

I don't know how many of the murders are committed using guns though.

Not that many in the UK; it's mostly knives these days.

I also believe that Harold Shipman skewed a few years' worth of UK murder statistics.

In the U.S. handguns seem to be strongly preferred and young adults are most likely to murder.

The number of people murdered in the US per capita each year appears to be about three times higher than in the UK. I don't know how many of the murders are committed using guns though.

Once again, you need to factor in the rather different composition of the population in the United States for a realistic comparison.

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_43.html

Let me give you a chance to clarify, Carl. Are you actually suggesting that the United States has a higher crime rate than the United Kingdom because there are more black people here? Really?

What am I supposed to be drawing from the numbers though? I expect differences in violence between different racial and ethnic groups are indicative of social ills that contribute to crime such as poverty in densely populated areas, inequality of opportunity, poor social rights, and remnants of segregation in terms of where many people live. Or perhaps the problem is rooted in certain sub-cultures? I don't really know for certain one way or another, but it is an interesting puzzle.

Perhaps it would be more pertinent to this discussion for us to explore the reasons why folks commit violence crimes in the first place (i.e. is it even relevant in terms of the public interest whether gun control laws stop all criminals from getting guns?). To be honest, I do not know how many people who murder premeditate their act(s), would go through the trouble of procuring a gun illegally in advance, and to what extent folks may be more reluctant to kill with a knife than a firearm. If you have thoughts on the matter they would be quite interesting to see shared.

I have yet to make up my mind about whether gun control effectively reduces crime, mind you.