European Football Thread

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Why can't Chelsea and Man United both lose the premiership?

Anyway Come on Roma and Valencia!

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Horrible, Horrible, Horrible, HORRIBLE events are occuring at this moment in time, Unspeakable really.

Though the plus side is now Chelsea won't do the three in a row.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Basically confirming what we already know.. the leagues outside the big five or so in Western Europe continue to get shafted.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Basically confirming what we already know.. the leagues outside the big five or so in Western Europe continue to get shafted.

The system for determining places can be unfair as it zooms in one one season and if you'r country performs poorly that season it relects that in the few seasons afterwards. It happened to Scotland last time round I'm pleased we secured two Champions League spots and on recent form, we should hold them.

Look forward to seeing this as a regular occurance in Rangers' and Celtic's Away Champions league Group Schedule

Scottish Away Matches
Played - 6 Won - 0 Drew - 0 Lost - 6 Points - 0



But I wanted Red Star to win. And Lewis, Portugal is just living of FC Mourinho's former glory once that goes off the UEFA points (alright, co-efficients) then...

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Basically confirming what we already know.. the leagues outside the big five or so in Western Europe continue to get shafted.

The system for determining places can be unfair as it zooms in one one season and if you'r country performs poorly that season it relects that in the few seasons afterwards. It happened to Scotland last time round I'm pleased we secured two Champions League spots and on recent form, we should hold them.

Look forward to seeing this as a regular occurance in Rangers' and Celtic's Away Champions league Group Schedule

Scottish Away Matches
Played - 6 Won - 0 Drew - 0 Lost - 6 Points - 0



But I wanted Red Star to win. And Lewis, Portugal is just living of FC Mourinho's former glory once that goes off the UEFA points (alright, co-efficients) then...

And on the fact that there's no difference between fourth and sixth place. Of course, look at Romania's recent jumps... this year's qualification stages show very well that the country doesn't have more than three clubs able of competing... however well those three have recently done.

True but it stagnates progress by all other clubs outside the elite... Before the Champions league was started nearly every second year (especially after the ban on the English clubs) would see a new champion who had never won it before - In that period clubs like Steaua Bucharest and Red Star Belgrade could win the trophy. Since 1997 there hasn't been a single new name on that big earred cup.. Real Madrid three times winners since, Milan twice and almost no winners outside Italy, Spain, England and Bayern Munich (Porto was a one-off..)

[Tetro Kornbluth]

But I wanted Red Star to win. ...

You and half of Glasgow

And alot of Ireland too I imagine.

And for the Record, I wanted Spartak Moscow to win too. I have no general fondness for the bigot brothers.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Basically confirming what we already know.. the leagues outside the big five or so in Western Europe continue to get shafted.

I don't really think it's right to blame the big leagues for their success. It certainly isn't their fault that... for example, the Irish leagues...are hopeless.

I was really referring to Eastern Europe rather than Ireland.. Ireland's just too damn small to have anything other than a glorified version of twenty-two lads in the park for some Friday night kickabout.

Also what Lewis said was accurate. The Spanish League was awful in the 70s and 80s (Despite having more money than most other leagues.. but not THAT much more money, like now.)

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Basically confirming what we already know.. the leagues outside the big five or so in Western Europe continue to get shafted.

I don't really think it's right to blame the big leagues for their success. It certainly isn't their fault that... for example, the Irish leagues...are hopeless.

I was really referring to Eastern Europe rather than Ireland.. Ireland's just too damn small to have anything other than a glorified version of twenty-two lads in the park for some Friday night kickabout.

Also what Lewis said was accurate. The Spanish League was awful in the 70s and 80s (Despite having more money than most other leagues.. but not THAT much more money, like now.)

Well, I don't really buy the argument that it's because we're too small. I actually think that it's due to the complete dominance of the GAA. Consider the number of guys playing week in, week out in Gaelic Football and Hurling.

So long as football is the 3rd (maybe even the 4th sport after rugby) here, then our clubs are likely to remain ultra-marginal in the European context, unless some form of major re-structuring took place...á la the Celtic League in Rugby.

We also lack (or rather, lacked) a rather big Industrial\Working class city where football could have taken off strongly. In most medium sized Decent-European leagues the big clubs tend to be just one or two big cities - Portugal, Holland, Russia, Romania... etc. (LOL@ At the first person who might suggest Dublin in this thread.) Of course the Gah is an influence, but look at the North where the Gah influence only grow began to grow in the 60s (it's now dominant in the more nationalist counties o\c) hardly a footballing superpower.. Though I guess George Best may beg to differ. The amateurism of the clubs until recently would be much bigger.

Of course now the best the Irish leagues can aim for is perhaps the middle tier of obscurities (or we get a Dublin based Franchise and put into the English league Championship somehow.. but I can't imagine going down very well across the channel...)

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Any thoughts on the European qualifiers? 

I am, shall we say...less than pleased, with our draw with Slovakia. Shambolic.
And whose fault is it?


No need to check your watch Steve, it's time to go.


Elsewhere, the North were unfortunate against Latvia, they deserved better on the day. Hugely dents their changes at progressing, redeemed somewhat by the Spanish failure against Iceland.

Saw a bit of the England and Scotland games, both did fine against relatively poor opposition. Not sure if anything much can be read into either game.

I'm looking forward to the end of year when John Delany tells us once again he'll hire a world class manager.. which means this time it will be John Aldridge. I could have told you all that was going to happen after Kerr left unfortunetly.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Not that it was unexpected but still...

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Not that it was unexpected but still...

Time for the FAI to evict Mr. Delaney and his "world class management team".

And replace them with Clueless Hack #1248 and John Aldridge.. as that is what would happen, sadly.

I still think we should never have sacked Kerr.. (or rather; we should have shot all the Keano-loving media which hounded Mick McCarthy out of the job in the first place.)

I can't believe it.. but it's six years since Jason McAteer scored against the Dutch.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Not that it was unexpected but still...

Time for the FAI to evict Mr. Delaney and his "world class management team".

And replace them with Clueless Hack #1248 and John Aldridge.. as that is what would happen, sadly.

You never know. The job isn't as unappealing as it was when Staunton took over. Reasonable group of young players coming through, and it looks fairly certain that we'll be 3rd seeds in the next World Cup qualification draw. Qualification and success should be easier.

But, if they're really stuck, I'd do it.

I still think we should never have sacked Kerr.. (or rather; we should have shot all the Keano-loving media which hounded Mick McCarthy out of the job in the first place.)

Kerr's sacking may have been premature. I thought at the time it was a bit of a 50-50 call, myself. That though was predicated on the belief that a reasonably good manager would be brought in...

And as to Irish Civil War II, from your comments, I suspect we would have been on different sides, so I'll leave that one alone.

I don't really see how it's more appealing now.. How many of our players by 2009 really have a good record in big pressure games - by then how many will be WC2002 leftovers? Not many - will Damien Duff ever play well for Ireland again? Unlikely. Will we have a new strategy then will somehow create a forcefield around our goal during the 90th minute - because I think that's our best chance for WC2010?

And who the bloody hell in the whole of Ireland is actually competent enough to run the FAI?

As I don't correspond much with traitors; I'll leave the rest of our commentary alone.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

I don't really see how it's more appealing now.. How many of our players by 2009 really have a good record in big pressure games - by then how many will be WC2002 leftovers? Not many - will Damien Duff ever play well for Ireland again? Unlikely. Will we have a new strategy then will somehow create a forcefield around our goal during the 90th minute - because I think that's our best chance for WC2010?

So I can put you down as an undecided then to be my assistant when I submit my application then?

Taking a look at the squad re:2009...
Given should still be there. At the back Finnan is now 31, so he'd be fit (and make the team) at least until 2010 - it's just a matter of making sure he doesn't retire from internationals. Kilbane at 30 is a similar concern but I suspect he'll keep playing as long as he can. Apart from that Dunne; McShane; O'Shea will be available for years. A back four of Finnan; Dunne; McShane and Kilbane should be competent.

In the middle the only realistic chance of a retirement is Carsley. The rest are all fairly young. In fact, their problem is largely lack of experience. Reid, Hunt and Duff are likely to be a part of things. Beyond that, we'll have to see how Ireland; McGeady; Douglas; Potter and Gibson develop. 4 good midfielders shouldn't be an unreasonable expectation.

Keane and Doyle will also be around for a while yet. I also have big hopes for Shane Long - i think he's potentially better than either of them.

This list contains some solid attacking players who can produce the necessary moments of flair to break a game open. I just don't think Steve Staunton is fit to lead them.

Ack... I'm sorry but we're in trouble if one of our most experienced players is Kevin Kilbane. (No doubt whoever is Irish Manager come late 2008 will continue to play him; due to the 2nd Commandment of Irish Football: "Thou Shall always Play Kevin "Zinedine" Kilbane".) Duff and Keane.. well.. their Ireland form has been patchy at best since McCarthy left and IIRC since then the best team we have beaten in a competitive game are Slovakia; then Georgia.. hardly an impressive list.

IYRC when Mick McCarthy took over after Jack Charlton we were utterly gash for the entire of France 98' Qualfying... Playing that Man U traitor as sweeper, drawing with Iceland, losing in Macedonia.. and we only managed to make the play-offs because our major rival for them in our group was Lithuania, and then we got fairly owned by Belgium. But over time McCarthy managed to dramatically improve the Irish squad, admittely he did have some of the old 94' base and that Man U playing guy in the centre of Midfield (He was quite good... I think.) but the only way we can have any success as if we stop pretending we are a big football nation and just accept that we're not likely to qualify much and that we appoint managers to last at least four years so that they and only they can build the team - The nature of International football is such that team soliditary is a huge part of success; much more than at Club level and you can't have that if you sack your manager after every game. Though perhaps I would have thought differently I hadn't been in Sligo the day we lost 5-2 to Cyprus.

But hey Given the nature of the FAI and the desirability of the Ireland Job right now, I'd say you have a good shot.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

No I don't think Kilbane is that bad; I just find it amusing that's almost never, ever dropped for such an average player.

Generally I actually agree with what you say; but unless we have a replacement for Staunton what can we do? (And again who would want the Job?)

[Tetro Kornbluth]

So, how long till we appoint John Aldridge?

[Tetro Kornbluth]

And you were right all along (unless Andorra score in the next..oh.. 55 seconds.)

I don't that it has ever happened before that none of the British Isles nations qualified for a major tournie. In 1994 there was Ireland only; and that is last one England missed and I can't remember any before that...

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Only winners qualify.. and the worst placed runner up is out without a play-off. Knowing our luck that would be us.

If we make second; at this point third will be probably be our best shot.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

All those groups look interesting imo... lets just hope it will be better than the previous international tournaments.

Early Prediction:
A1 vs B2 - Portugal vs Croatia
B1 vs A2 - Germany vs Switzerland
C1 vs D2 - France vs Sweden
D1 vs C2 - Spain vs Italy

W1 vs W2 - Croatia vs Germany
W3 vs W4 - Italy vs France

Final: Germany vs Italy

Though in reality this is just educated guessing.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Mark Lawrenson said on Today FM earlier today that he has it on 'very good authority' that the FAI have offered the Irish job to Terry Venables!

Lock your tills. Now.

Already way ahead of you...

I really don't understand this move (well actually I do, FAI desperation\anti-buckstoppingness.) and I can't get why anyone thinks Venables is a good coach. After his most recent appointments even the English rag media has stopped going "OMG VENABLES!!!111" every time the English managers position is up for grabs.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Luckily for you, Hull seem to be constantly sinking... I think it will be 2 from those 4 (3 NE clubs + Hull) which will go down... I think Stoke surprisingly are safe. Hopefully Liverpool will win the league.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

The best part, of course, came at the end when we got to see Silvio up there.    Fini was even on the stage (but sort of behind Platini)! Barcelona's coach even went out of his way to shake his hand!

I know you will take offense to this Phil, but as odious as Berlusconi is in Politics, he's even more odious in Football...

I also mimic what Lewis said, except in my view the scales of evil were ever increasing from the Quarter Finals onwards. Though who: Chelsea or Man Utd is more evil is difficult to decide.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

United has been very very big even before the Big Evil Three-and-a-Half crystallized for good.

Besides, they still have a couple of players (Giggs, Scholes) who've been there for decades and were actually locally raised. And they beat Bayern on those fateful two minutes ten years and a couple of days ago. That's gotta count for something.

I still can't believe it's now 10 years ago... talk about "it felt like only yesterday" (the European Cup final, not Frankfurt staying up ;p). Will I get into your bad books Lewis to say at the 89th Minute of the game my 11 year old self was getting ready to celebrate Bayern's imminent victory against the forces of darkness?

As for the earlier comment, United were always big in terms of supporters, even during that season in the 1970s (1974-75?) when they played in the second division they got some of the biggest crowds in the country. Even before the 90s United were probably the second most supported club in Ireland, behind Liverpool (that's switched now obviously).

But in terms of actual trophies not so much, obviously there was the European Cup but Nottingham Forest won that (twice!) and they also had to wait 26 years for their 8th league title in 1993; When Ferguson took over they were behind Everton and level with Aston Villa in the all time list. Now they are level 1st.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

United has been very very big even before the Big Evil Three-and-a-Half crystallized for good.

Besides, they still have a couple of players (Giggs, Scholes) who've been there for decades and were actually locally raised. And they beat Bayern on those fateful two minutes ten years and a couple of days ago. That's gotta count for something.

I still can't believe it's now 10 years ago... talk about "it felt like only yesterday" (the European Cup final, not Frankfurt staying up ;p). Will I get into your bad books Lewis to say at the 89th Minute of the game my 11 year old self was getting ready to celebrate Bayern's imminent victory against the forces of darkness?
 

No. You don't know Bayern the way we do.
But for not caring about Frankfurt staying up that year, you do. Get into my bad books.
Here's one of them:

I never said I didn't care about Frankfurt staying up; just I don't remember it. Different.

And Encyclopedia Brown? (Funny as always o/c, and painfully true in a way).

The Bundesliga seems to often end dramatically though.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Sweden can only finished second if Portugal fail to beat Malta on Wednesday, so I'd say it is pretty near over.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

I said from the start that we would make the play-offs and then fail as history dictated. And tbh, I can't see myself changing my mind now.

Ukraine and Russia to qualify. A bit unsure on Bosnia-Portugal; depends on which Portugal actually play.