English translations of the Bible

[Josh/Devilman88]

First off you have to know that we all are sinners damned to Hell, as stated in the verse below
Romans 3:23 -For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
It says we ALL have sinned...

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

This verse tell you the only way to heaven is through Jesus. Jesus is the one and only way to heaven. You can't get there by being a good person or works or saints.

Romans10:
9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

This says that if you believe Jesus raised from the dead and as ask him into your heart then you will be say, but you have to truly mean it.


* So you have to know that you are a sinner, and truly want Jesus to come into your life to save you to be save*

[12th Doctor]

First off you have to know that we all are sinners damned to Hell, as stated in the verse below
Romans 3:23 -For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
It says we ALL have sinned...

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

This verse tell you the only way to heaven is through Jesus. Jesus is the one and only way to heaven. You can't get there by being a good person or works or saints.

Romans10:
9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

This says that if you believe Jesus raised from the dead and as ask him into your heart then you will be say, but you have to truly mean it.


* So you have to know that you are a sinner, and truly want Jesus to come into your life to save you to be save*

Okayy, well, I agree with part of your premise... that we are saved through Jesus.  And it has never never been the position of any mainstream Church that we are ever "saved" through saints, so I don't know where you go that.

This has raised to the level of a cliche, but what do you make of the book of James.  It is, James tells us:

James 1 & 2

22
Be doers of the word and not hearers only, deluding yourselves.
23
For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his own face in a mirror.
24
He sees himself, then goes off and promptly forgets what he looked like.
25
But the one who peers into the perfect law of freedom and perseveres, and is not a hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, such a one shall be blessed in what he does.
26
If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, his religion is vain.
27
Religion that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to care for orphans and widows  in their affliction and to keep oneself unstained by the world

1
My brothers, show no partiality as you adhere to the faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ.
2
For if a man with gold rings on his fingers and in fine clothes comes into your assembly, and a poor person in shabby clothes also comes in,
3
and you pay attention to the one wearing the fine clothes and say, "Sit here, please," while you say to the poor one, "Stand there," or "Sit at my feet,"
4
have you not made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil designs? 
5
Listen, my beloved brothers. Did not God choose those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom that he promised to those who love him?
6
But you dishonored the poor person. Are not the rich oppressing you? And do they themselves not haul you off to court?
7
Is it not they who blaspheme the noble name that was invoked over you?
8
However, if you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing well.
9
But if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
10
For whoever keeps the whole law, but falls short in one particular, has become guilty in respect to all of it.
11
For he who said, "You shall not commit adultery," also said, "You shall not kill." Even if you do not commit adultery but kill, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12
So speak and so act as people who will be judged by the law of freedom.
13
For the judgment is merciless to one who has not shown mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.
14
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
15
If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day,
16
and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?
17
So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18
Indeed someone might say, "You have faith and I have works." Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
19
You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.
20
Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?
21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
22
You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.
23
Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."
24
See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25
And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route?
26
For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Clearly, James is talking about acts here, along with faith.  Faith without works is dead.  Faith is justified through works.  Treat others as fellow brothers, regardless of station, etc.

[12th Doctor]

In fact, it is worth noting that James is so direct here, that, in the Study Bible, this passage carries only about 5 footnotes, the fewest I think I have seen in one of such length.

[Josh/Devilman88]

First off you have to know that we all are sinners damned to Hell, as stated in the verse below
Romans 3:23 -For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
It says we ALL have sinned...

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

This verse tell you the only way to heaven is through Jesus. Jesus is the one and only way to heaven. You can't get there by being a good person or works or saints.

Romans10:
9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

This says that if you believe Jesus raised from the dead and as ask him into your heart then you will be say, but you have to truly mean it.


* So you have to know that you are a sinner, and truly want Jesus to come into your life to save you to be save*

Okayy, well, I agree with part of your premise... that we are saved through Jesus.  And it has never never been the position of any mainstream Church that we are ever "saved" through saints, so I don't know where you go that.

This has raised to the level of a cliche, but what do you make of the book of James.  It is, James tells us:

James 1 & 2

22
Be doers of the word and not hearers only, deluding yourselves.
23
For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his own face in a mirror.
24
He sees himself, then goes off and promptly forgets what he looked like.
25
But the one who peers into the perfect law of freedom and perseveres, and is not a hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, such a one shall be blessed in what he does.
26
If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, his religion is vain.
27
Religion that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to care for orphans and widows  in their affliction and to keep oneself unstained by the world

1
My brothers, show no partiality as you adhere to the faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ.
2
For if a man with gold rings on his fingers and in fine clothes comes into your assembly, and a poor person in shabby clothes also comes in,
3
and you pay attention to the one wearing the fine clothes and say, "Sit here, please," while you say to the poor one, "Stand there," or "Sit at my feet,"
4
have you not made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil designs? 
5
Listen, my beloved brothers. Did not God choose those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom that he promised to those who love him?
6
But you dishonored the poor person. Are not the rich oppressing you? And do they themselves not haul you off to court?
7
Is it not they who blaspheme the noble name that was invoked over you?
8
However, if you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing well.
9
But if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
10
For whoever keeps the whole law, but falls short in one particular, has become guilty in respect to all of it.
11
For he who said, "You shall not commit adultery," also said, "You shall not kill." Even if you do not commit adultery but kill, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12
So speak and so act as people who will be judged by the law of freedom.
13
For the judgment is merciless to one who has not shown mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.
14
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
15
If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day,
16
and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?
17
So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18
Indeed someone might say, "You have faith and I have works." Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
19
You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.
20
Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?
21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
22
You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.
23
Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."
24
See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25
And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route?
26
For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Clearly, James is talking about acts here, along with faith.  Faith without works is dead.  Faith is justified through works.  Treat others as fellow brothers, regardless of station, etc.

It should be works with faith is dead.  Yes, you should do works for God and if you are truly saved then you will want to do works for God. But nowhere does it say if you don't do work for God means you are not saved... I believe once saved always saved.

[12th Doctor]

First off you have to know that we all are sinners damned to Hell, as stated in the verse below
Romans 3:23 -For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
It says we ALL have sinned...

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

This verse tell you the only way to heaven is through Jesus. Jesus is the one and only way to heaven. You can't get there by being a good person or works or saints.

Romans10:
9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

This says that if you believe Jesus raised from the dead and as ask him into your heart then you will be say, but you have to truly mean it.


* So you have to know that you are a sinner, and truly want Jesus to come into your life to save you to be save*

Okayy, well, I agree with part of your premise... that we are saved through Jesus.  And it has never never been the position of any mainstream Church that we are ever "saved" through saints, so I don't know where you go that.

This has raised to the level of a cliche, but what do you make of the book of James.  It is, James tells us:

James 1 & 2

22
Be doers of the word and not hearers only, deluding yourselves.
23
For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his own face in a mirror.
24
He sees himself, then goes off and promptly forgets what he looked like.
25
But the one who peers into the perfect law of freedom and perseveres, and is not a hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, such a one shall be blessed in what he does.
26
If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, his religion is vain.
27
Religion that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to care for orphans and widows  in their affliction and to keep oneself unstained by the world

1
My brothers, show no partiality as you adhere to the faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ.
2
For if a man with gold rings on his fingers and in fine clothes comes into your assembly, and a poor person in shabby clothes also comes in,
3
and you pay attention to the one wearing the fine clothes and say, "Sit here, please," while you say to the poor one, "Stand there," or "Sit at my feet,"
4
have you not made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil designs? 
5
Listen, my beloved brothers. Did not God choose those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom that he promised to those who love him?
6
But you dishonored the poor person. Are not the rich oppressing you? And do they themselves not haul you off to court?
7
Is it not they who blaspheme the noble name that was invoked over you?
8
However, if you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing well.
9
But if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
10
For whoever keeps the whole law, but falls short in one particular, has become guilty in respect to all of it.
11
For he who said, "You shall not commit adultery," also said, "You shall not kill." Even if you do not commit adultery but kill, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12
So speak and so act as people who will be judged by the law of freedom.
13
For the judgment is merciless to one who has not shown mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.
14
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
15
If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day,
16
and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?
17
So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18
Indeed someone might say, "You have faith and I have works." Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
19
You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.
20
Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?
21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
22
You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.
23
Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."
24
See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25
And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route?
26
For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Clearly, James is talking about acts here, along with faith.  Faith without works is dead.  Faith is justified through works.  Treat others as fellow brothers, regardless of station, etc.

It should be works without faith is dead.  Yes, you should do works for God and if you are truly saved then you will want to do works for God. But nowhere does it say if you don't do work for God means you are not saved... I believe once saved always saved.

I assume you meant "without".  Well, you know what, that's great.  Luther thought it shoudl be that too.  In fact, he tried to have the book of James deleted from the Bible, that created an outcry, even amounst his supporters, though, so Protestant theology just found a way to ignore it for 400 years.

I don't want to know what you think it should be.  That's what it IS.  And you can't ignore it, because the context is obvious.  Now, do you accept the definitivness of the Bible, or don't you?

After you answer that, we can move onto this "Once saved, always saved" thing

[Josh/Devilman88]

First off you have to know that we all are sinners damned to Hell, as stated in the verse below
Romans 3:23 -For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
It says we ALL have sinned...

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

This verse tell you the only way to heaven is through Jesus. Jesus is the one and only way to heaven. You can't get there by being a good person or works or saints.

Romans10:
9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

This says that if you believe Jesus raised from the dead and as ask him into your heart then you will be say, but you have to truly mean it.


* So you have to know that you are a sinner, and truly want Jesus to come into your life to save you to be save*

Okayy, well, I agree with part of your premise... that we are saved through Jesus.  And it has never never been the position of any mainstream Church that we are ever "saved" through saints, so I don't know where you go that.

This has raised to the level of a cliche, but what do you make of the book of James.  It is, James tells us:

James 1 & 2

22
Be doers of the word and not hearers only, deluding yourselves.
23
For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his own face in a mirror.
24
He sees himself, then goes off and promptly forgets what he looked like.
25
But the one who peers into the perfect law of freedom and perseveres, and is not a hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, such a one shall be blessed in what he does.
26
If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, his religion is vain.
27
Religion that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to care for orphans and widows  in their affliction and to keep oneself unstained by the world

1
My brothers, show no partiality as you adhere to the faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ.
2
For if a man with gold rings on his fingers and in fine clothes comes into your assembly, and a poor person in shabby clothes also comes in,
3
and you pay attention to the one wearing the fine clothes and say, "Sit here, please," while you say to the poor one, "Stand there," or "Sit at my feet,"
4
have you not made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil designs? 
5
Listen, my beloved brothers. Did not God choose those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom that he promised to those who love him?
6
But you dishonored the poor person. Are not the rich oppressing you? And do they themselves not haul you off to court?
7
Is it not they who blaspheme the noble name that was invoked over you?
8
However, if you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing well.
9
But if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
10
For whoever keeps the whole law, but falls short in one particular, has become guilty in respect to all of it.
11
For he who said, "You shall not commit adultery," also said, "You shall not kill." Even if you do not commit adultery but kill, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12
So speak and so act as people who will be judged by the law of freedom.
13
For the judgment is merciless to one who has not shown mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.
14
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
15
If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day,
16
and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?
17
So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18
Indeed someone might say, "You have faith and I have works." Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
19
You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.
20
Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?
21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
22
You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.
23
Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."
24
See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25
And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route?
26
For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Clearly, James is talking about acts here, along with faith.  Faith without works is dead.  Faith is justified through works.  Treat others as fellow brothers, regardless of station, etc.

It should be works without faith is dead.  Yes, you should do works for God and if you are truly saved then you will want to do works for God. But nowhere does it say if you don't do work for God means you are not saved... I believe once saved always saved.

I assume you meant "without".  Well, you know what, that's great.  Luther thought it shoudl be that too.  In fact, he tried to have the book of James deleted from the Bible, that created an outcry, even amounst his supporters, though, so Protestant theology just found a way to ignore it for 400 years.

I don't want to know what you think it should be.  That's what it IS.  And you can't ignore it, because the context is obvious.  Now, do you accept the definitivness of the Bible, or don't you?

After you answer that, we can move onto this "Once saved, always saved" thing

Your right it should be faith without works is dead.

[12th Doctor]

First off you have to know that we all are sinners damned to Hell, as stated in the verse below
Romans 3:23 -For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
It says we ALL have sinned...

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

This verse tell you the only way to heaven is through Jesus. Jesus is the one and only way to heaven. You can't get there by being a good person or works or saints.

Romans10:
9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

This says that if you believe Jesus raised from the dead and as ask him into your heart then you will be say, but you have to truly mean it.


* So you have to know that you are a sinner, and truly want Jesus to come into your life to save you to be save*

Okayy, well, I agree with part of your premise... that we are saved through Jesus.  And it has never never been the position of any mainstream Church that we are ever "saved" through saints, so I don't know where you go that.

This has raised to the level of a cliche, but what do you make of the book of James.  It is, James tells us:

James 1 & 2

22
Be doers of the word and not hearers only, deluding yourselves.
23
For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his own face in a mirror.
24
He sees himself, then goes off and promptly forgets what he looked like.
25
But the one who peers into the perfect law of freedom and perseveres, and is not a hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, such a one shall be blessed in what he does.
26
If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, his religion is vain.
27
Religion that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to care for orphans and widows  in their affliction and to keep oneself unstained by the world

1
My brothers, show no partiality as you adhere to the faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ.
2
For if a man with gold rings on his fingers and in fine clothes comes into your assembly, and a poor person in shabby clothes also comes in,
3
and you pay attention to the one wearing the fine clothes and say, "Sit here, please," while you say to the poor one, "Stand there," or "Sit at my feet,"
4
have you not made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil designs? 
5
Listen, my beloved brothers. Did not God choose those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom that he promised to those who love him?
6
But you dishonored the poor person. Are not the rich oppressing you? And do they themselves not haul you off to court?
7
Is it not they who blaspheme the noble name that was invoked over you?
8
However, if you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing well.
9
But if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
10
For whoever keeps the whole law, but falls short in one particular, has become guilty in respect to all of it.
11
For he who said, "You shall not commit adultery," also said, "You shall not kill." Even if you do not commit adultery but kill, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12
So speak and so act as people who will be judged by the law of freedom.
13
For the judgment is merciless to one who has not shown mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.
14
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
15
If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day,
16
and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?
17
So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18
Indeed someone might say, "You have faith and I have works." Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
19
You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.
20
Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?
21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
22
You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.
23
Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."
24
See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25
And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route?
26
For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Clearly, James is talking about acts here, along with faith.  Faith without works is dead.  Faith is justified through works.  Treat others as fellow brothers, regardless of station, etc.

It should be works without faith is dead.  Yes, you should do works for God and if you are truly saved then you will want to do works for God. But nowhere does it say if you don't do work for God means you are not saved... I believe once saved always saved.

I assume you meant "without".  Well, you know what, that's great.  Luther thought it shoudl be that too.  In fact, he tried to have the book of James deleted from the Bible, that created an outcry, even amounst his supporters, though, so Protestant theology just found a way to ignore it for 400 years.

I don't want to know what you think it should be.  That's what it IS.  And you can't ignore it, because the context is obvious.  Now, do you accept the definitivness of the Bible, or don't you?

After you answer that, we can move onto this "Once saved, always saved" thing

Your right it should be faith without works is dead.

Okay, well, what say you to my other questions?

[7,052,770]

There's nothing more irritating that people pulling out random Bible verses and quoting them, without giving the context.

[Josh/Devilman88]

First off you have to know that we all are sinners damned to Hell, as stated in the verse below
Romans 3:23 -For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
It says we ALL have sinned...

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

This verse tell you the only way to heaven is through Jesus. Jesus is the one and only way to heaven. You can't get there by being a good person or works or saints.

Romans10:
9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

This says that if you believe Jesus raised from the dead and as ask him into your heart then you will be say, but you have to truly mean it.


* So you have to know that you are a sinner, and truly want Jesus to come into your life to save you to be save*

Okayy, well, I agree with part of your premise... that we are saved through Jesus.  And it has never never been the position of any mainstream Church that we are ever "saved" through saints, so I don't know where you go that.

This has raised to the level of a cliche, but what do you make of the book of James.  It is, James tells us:

James 1 & 2

22
Be doers of the word and not hearers only, deluding yourselves.
23
For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his own face in a mirror.
24
He sees himself, then goes off and promptly forgets what he looked like.
25
But the one who peers into the perfect law of freedom and perseveres, and is not a hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, such a one shall be blessed in what he does.
26
If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, his religion is vain.
27
Religion that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to care for orphans and widows  in their affliction and to keep oneself unstained by the world

1
My brothers, show no partiality as you adhere to the faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ.
2
For if a man with gold rings on his fingers and in fine clothes comes into your assembly, and a poor person in shabby clothes also comes in,
3
and you pay attention to the one wearing the fine clothes and say, "Sit here, please," while you say to the poor one, "Stand there," or "Sit at my feet,"
4
have you not made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil designs? 
5
Listen, my beloved brothers. Did not God choose those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom that he promised to those who love him?
6
But you dishonored the poor person. Are not the rich oppressing you? And do they themselves not haul you off to court?
7
Is it not they who blaspheme the noble name that was invoked over you?
8
However, if you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing well.
9
But if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
10
For whoever keeps the whole law, but falls short in one particular, has become guilty in respect to all of it.
11
For he who said, "You shall not commit adultery," also said, "You shall not kill." Even if you do not commit adultery but kill, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12
So speak and so act as people who will be judged by the law of freedom.
13
For the judgment is merciless to one who has not shown mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.
14
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
15
If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day,
16
and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?
17
So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18
Indeed someone might say, "You have faith and I have works." Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
19
You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.
20
Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?
21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
22
You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.
23
Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."
24
See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25
And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route?
26
For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Clearly, James is talking about acts here, along with faith.  Faith without works is dead.  Faith is justified through works.  Treat others as fellow brothers, regardless of station, etc.

It should be works without faith is dead.  Yes, you should do works for God and if you are truly saved then you will want to do works for God. But nowhere does it say if you don't do work for God means you are not saved... I believe once saved always saved.

I assume you meant "without".  Well, you know what, that's great.  Luther thought it shoudl be that too.  In fact, he tried to have the book of James deleted from the Bible, that created an outcry, even amounst his supporters, though, so Protestant theology just found a way to ignore it for 400 years.

I don't want to know what you think it should be.  That's what it IS.  And you can't ignore it, because the context is obvious.  Now, do you accept the definitivness of the Bible, or don't you?

After you answer that, we can move onto this "Once saved, always saved" thing

Your right it should be faith without works is dead.

Okay, well, what say you to my other questions?

Sorry, but I don't understand your other question..

[12th Doctor]

First off you have to know that we all are sinners damned to Hell, as stated in the verse below
Romans 3:23 -For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
It says we ALL have sinned...

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

This verse tell you the only way to heaven is through Jesus. Jesus is the one and only way to heaven. You can't get there by being a good person or works or saints.

Romans10:
9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

This says that if you believe Jesus raised from the dead and as ask him into your heart then you will be say, but you have to truly mean it.


* So you have to know that you are a sinner, and truly want Jesus to come into your life to save you to be save*

Okayy, well, I agree with part of your premise... that we are saved through Jesus.  And it has never never been the position of any mainstream Church that we are ever "saved" through saints, so I don't know where you go that.

This has raised to the level of a cliche, but what do you make of the book of James.  It is, James tells us:

James 1 & 2

22
Be doers of the word and not hearers only, deluding yourselves.
23
For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his own face in a mirror.
24
He sees himself, then goes off and promptly forgets what he looked like.
25
But the one who peers into the perfect law of freedom and perseveres, and is not a hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, such a one shall be blessed in what he does.
26
If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, his religion is vain.
27
Religion that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to care for orphans and widows  in their affliction and to keep oneself unstained by the world

1
My brothers, show no partiality as you adhere to the faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ.
2
For if a man with gold rings on his fingers and in fine clothes comes into your assembly, and a poor person in shabby clothes also comes in,
3
and you pay attention to the one wearing the fine clothes and say, "Sit here, please," while you say to the poor one, "Stand there," or "Sit at my feet,"
4
have you not made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil designs? 
5
Listen, my beloved brothers. Did not God choose those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom that he promised to those who love him?
6
But you dishonored the poor person. Are not the rich oppressing you? And do they themselves not haul you off to court?
7
Is it not they who blaspheme the noble name that was invoked over you?
8
However, if you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing well.
9
But if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
10
For whoever keeps the whole law, but falls short in one particular, has become guilty in respect to all of it.
11
For he who said, "You shall not commit adultery," also said, "You shall not kill." Even if you do not commit adultery but kill, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12
So speak and so act as people who will be judged by the law of freedom.
13
For the judgment is merciless to one who has not shown mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.
14
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
15
If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day,
16
and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?
17
So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18
Indeed someone might say, "You have faith and I have works." Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
19
You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.
20
Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?
21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
22
You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.
23
Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."
24
See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25
And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route?
26
For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Clearly, James is talking about acts here, along with faith.  Faith without works is dead.  Faith is justified through works.  Treat others as fellow brothers, regardless of station, etc.

It should be works without faith is dead.  Yes, you should do works for God and if you are truly saved then you will want to do works for God. But nowhere does it say if you don't do work for God means you are not saved... I believe once saved always saved.

I assume you meant "without".  Well, you know what, that's great.  Luther thought it shoudl be that too.  In fact, he tried to have the book of James deleted from the Bible, that created an outcry, even amounst his supporters, though, so Protestant theology just found a way to ignore it for 400 years.

I don't want to know what you think it should be.  That's what it IS.  And you can't ignore it, because the context is obvious.  Now, do you accept the definitivness of the Bible, or don't you?

After you answer that, we can move onto this "Once saved, always saved" thing

Your right it should be faith without works is dead.

Okay, well, what say you to my other questions?

Sorry, but I don't understand your other question..

Do you believe the Bible is definitive?  Meaning that, when things are taking into context, do you believe scripture is infallable?

[Josh/Devilman88]

First off you have to know that we all are sinners damned to Hell, as stated in the verse below
Romans 3:23 -For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
It says we ALL have sinned...

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

This verse tell you the only way to heaven is through Jesus. Jesus is the one and only way to heaven. You can't get there by being a good person or works or saints.

Romans10:
9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

This says that if you believe Jesus raised from the dead and as ask him into your heart then you will be say, but you have to truly mean it.


* So you have to know that you are a sinner, and truly want Jesus to come into your life to save you to be save*

Okayy, well, I agree with part of your premise... that we are saved through Jesus.  And it has never never been the position of any mainstream Church that we are ever "saved" through saints, so I don't know where you go that.

This has raised to the level of a cliche, but what do you make of the book of James.  It is, James tells us:

James 1 & 2

22
Be doers of the word and not hearers only, deluding yourselves.
23
For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his own face in a mirror.
24
He sees himself, then goes off and promptly forgets what he looked like.
25
But the one who peers into the perfect law of freedom and perseveres, and is not a hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, such a one shall be blessed in what he does.
26
If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, his religion is vain.
27
Religion that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to care for orphans and widows  in their affliction and to keep oneself unstained by the world

1
My brothers, show no partiality as you adhere to the faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ.
2
For if a man with gold rings on his fingers and in fine clothes comes into your assembly, and a poor person in shabby clothes also comes in,
3
and you pay attention to the one wearing the fine clothes and say, "Sit here, please," while you say to the poor one, "Stand there," or "Sit at my feet,"
4
have you not made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil designs? 
5
Listen, my beloved brothers. Did not God choose those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom that he promised to those who love him?
6
But you dishonored the poor person. Are not the rich oppressing you? And do they themselves not haul you off to court?
7
Is it not they who blaspheme the noble name that was invoked over you?
8
However, if you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing well.
9
But if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
10
For whoever keeps the whole law, but falls short in one particular, has become guilty in respect to all of it.
11
For he who said, "You shall not commit adultery," also said, "You shall not kill." Even if you do not commit adultery but kill, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12
So speak and so act as people who will be judged by the law of freedom.
13
For the judgment is merciless to one who has not shown mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.
14
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
15
If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day,
16
and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?
17
So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18
Indeed someone might say, "You have faith and I have works." Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
19
You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.
20
Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?
21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
22
You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.
23
Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."
24
See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25
And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route?
26
For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Clearly, James is talking about acts here, along with faith.  Faith without works is dead.  Faith is justified through works.  Treat others as fellow brothers, regardless of station, etc.

It should be works without faith is dead.  Yes, you should do works for God and if you are truly saved then you will want to do works for God. But nowhere does it say if you don't do work for God means you are not saved... I believe once saved always saved.

I assume you meant "without".  Well, you know what, that's great.  Luther thought it shoudl be that too.  In fact, he tried to have the book of James deleted from the Bible, that created an outcry, even amounst his supporters, though, so Protestant theology just found a way to ignore it for 400 years.

I don't want to know what you think it should be.  That's what it IS.  And you can't ignore it, because the context is obvious.  Now, do you accept the definitivness of the Bible, or don't you?

After you answer that, we can move onto this "Once saved, always saved" thing

Your right it should be faith without works is dead.

Okay, well, what say you to my other questions?

Sorry, but I don't understand your other question..

Do you believe the Bible is definitive?  Meaning that, when things are taking into context, do you believe scripture is infallable?

Yes I do believe the bible is infallable.

[12th Doctor]

First off you have to know that we all are sinners damned to Hell, as stated in the verse below
Romans 3:23 -For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
It says we ALL have sinned...

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

This verse tell you the only way to heaven is through Jesus. Jesus is the one and only way to heaven. You can't get there by being a good person or works or saints.

Romans10:
9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

This says that if you believe Jesus raised from the dead and as ask him into your heart then you will be say, but you have to truly mean it.


* So you have to know that you are a sinner, and truly want Jesus to come into your life to save you to be save*

Okayy, well, I agree with part of your premise... that we are saved through Jesus.  And it has never never been the position of any mainstream Church that we are ever "saved" through saints, so I don't know where you go that.

This has raised to the level of a cliche, but what do you make of the book of James.  It is, James tells us:

James 1 & 2

22
Be doers of the word and not hearers only, deluding yourselves.
23
For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his own face in a mirror.
24
He sees himself, then goes off and promptly forgets what he looked like.
25
But the one who peers into the perfect law of freedom and perseveres, and is not a hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, such a one shall be blessed in what he does.
26
If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, his religion is vain.
27
Religion that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to care for orphans and widows  in their affliction and to keep oneself unstained by the world

1
My brothers, show no partiality as you adhere to the faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ.
2
For if a man with gold rings on his fingers and in fine clothes comes into your assembly, and a poor person in shabby clothes also comes in,
3
and you pay attention to the one wearing the fine clothes and say, "Sit here, please," while you say to the poor one, "Stand there," or "Sit at my feet,"
4
have you not made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil designs? 
5
Listen, my beloved brothers. Did not God choose those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom that he promised to those who love him?
6
But you dishonored the poor person. Are not the rich oppressing you? And do they themselves not haul you off to court?
7
Is it not they who blaspheme the noble name that was invoked over you?
8
However, if you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing well.
9
But if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
10
For whoever keeps the whole law, but falls short in one particular, has become guilty in respect to all of it.
11
For he who said, "You shall not commit adultery," also said, "You shall not kill." Even if you do not commit adultery but kill, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12
So speak and so act as people who will be judged by the law of freedom.
13
For the judgment is merciless to one who has not shown mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.
14
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
15
If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day,
16
and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?
17
So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18
Indeed someone might say, "You have faith and I have works." Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
19
You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.
20
Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?
21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
22
You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.
23
Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."
24
See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25
And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route?
26
For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Clearly, James is talking about acts here, along with faith.  Faith without works is dead.  Faith is justified through works.  Treat others as fellow brothers, regardless of station, etc.

It should be works without faith is dead.  Yes, you should do works for God and if you are truly saved then you will want to do works for God. But nowhere does it say if you don't do work for God means you are not saved... I believe once saved always saved.

I assume you meant "without".  Well, you know what, that's great.  Luther thought it shoudl be that too.  In fact, he tried to have the book of James deleted from the Bible, that created an outcry, even amounst his supporters, though, so Protestant theology just found a way to ignore it for 400 years.

I don't want to know what you think it should be.  That's what it IS.  And you can't ignore it, because the context is obvious.  Now, do you accept the definitivness of the Bible, or don't you?

After you answer that, we can move onto this "Once saved, always saved" thing

Your right it should be faith without works is dead.

Okay, well, what say you to my other questions?

Sorry, but I don't understand your other question..

Do you believe the Bible is definitive?  Meaning that, when things are taking into context, do you believe scripture is infallable?

Yes I do believe the bible is infallable.

And you still stick by sola fide

[Josh/Devilman88]

yes

[12th Doctor]

yes

What if I told you that I can prove to you, using only scripture that sola fide is wrong, that, in fact, it is not even the most important part of salvation?

[Josh/Devilman88]

yes

What if I told you that I can prove to you, using only scripture that sola fide is wrong, that, in fact, it is not even the most important part of salvation?

Show me where it says that(in the kjv).

[12th Doctor]

So that you know I am not just pulling out something totally random here, I want to give some context first.  In Galatians 5, Paul tells us:

6
For in Christ Jesus, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.

This doesn't say much, admitedly, but Paul explains it a little further in 1 Corinthians.

Again, I will give the context.  Paul, for whatever reason, feels compeled to talk about Christian Spiritual gifts.  In chapter 12, he breezes over the other gifts.  He finishes in another famous passage, which I am sure will be important later:

27
Now you are Christ's body, and individually parts of it.
28
Some people God has designated in the church to be, first, apostles; second, prophets; third, teachers; then, mighty deeds; then, gifts of healing, assistance, administration, and varieties of tongues.
29
Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work mighty deeds?
30
Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret?
31
Strive eagerly for the greatest spiritual gifts. But I shall show you a still more excellent way.

We then turn to Chapter 13... I'll give you the whole thing, for purposes of context, but I will bold the important parts:

1
If I speak in human and angelic tongues but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal.
2
And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing.
3
If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4
3 Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, (love) is not pompous, it is not inflated,
5
it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury,
6
it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth.
7
It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8
Love never fails. If there are prophecies, they will be brought to nothing; if tongues, they will cease; if knowledge, it will be brought to nothing.
9
For we know partially and we prophesy partially,
10
but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.
11
When I was a child, I used to talk as a child, think as a child, reason as a child; when I became a man, I put aside childish things.
12
At present we see indistinctly, as in a mirror, but then face to face. At present I know partially; then I shall know fully, as I am fully known.
13
So faith, hope, love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Now, the mention of the other two (faith and hope) is kinda random, but they were a well known triad at the time.  The fact that it is so random though, suggests that Paul is going to an extra length to make his point, after contrasting Love to all the other minor gifts.

[12th Doctor]

yes

What if I told you that I can prove to you, using only scripture that sola fide is wrong, that, in fact, it is not even the most important part of salvation?

Show me where it says that(in the kjv).

Site for an online KJV?  I want you to pick your preference.

[??????????]

Interestingly enough 13:8 of what you just quoted completely discredits the Pentecostal Church.

[Josh/Devilman88]

So that you know I am not just pulling out something totally random here, I want to give some context first.  In Galatians 5, Paul tells us:

6
For in Christ Jesus, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.

This doesn't say much, admitedly, but Paul explains it a little further in 1 Corinthians.

Again, I will give the context.  Paul, for whatever reason, feels compeled to talk about Christian Spiritual gifts.  In chapter 12, he breezes over the other gifts.  He finishes in another famous passage, which I am sure will be important later:

27
Now you are Christ's body, and individually parts of it.
28
Some people God has designated in the church to be, first, apostles; second, prophets; third, teachers; then, mighty deeds; then, gifts of healing, assistance, administration, and varieties of tongues.
29
Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work mighty deeds?
30
Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret?
31
Strive eagerly for the greatest spiritual gifts. But I shall show you a still more excellent way.

We then turn to Chapter 13... I'll give you the whole thing, for purposes of context, but I will bold the important parts:

1
If I speak in human and angelic tongues but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal.
2
And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing.
3
If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4
3 Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, (love) is not pompous, it is not inflated,
5
it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury,
6
it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth.
7
It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8
Love never fails. If there are prophecies, they will be brought to nothing; if tongues, they will cease; if knowledge, it will be brought to nothing.
9
For we know partially and we prophesy partially,
10
but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.
11
When I was a child, I used to talk as a child, think as a child, reason as a child; when I became a man, I put aside childish things.
12
At present we see indistinctly, as in a mirror, but then face to face. At present I know partially; then I shall know fully, as I am fully known.
13
So faith, hope, love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Now, the mention of the other two (faith and hope) is kinda random, but they were a well known triad at the time.  The fact that it is so random though, suggests that Paul is going to an extra length to make his point, after contrasting Love to all the other minor gifts.

What is your point? That still don't say anything about works helping you get to heaven.

[12th Doctor]

So that you know I am not just pulling out something totally random here, I want to give some context first.  In Galatians 5, Paul tells us:

6
For in Christ Jesus, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.

This doesn't say much, admitedly, but Paul explains it a little further in 1 Corinthians.

Again, I will give the context.  Paul, for whatever reason, feels compeled to talk about Christian Spiritual gifts.  In chapter 12, he breezes over the other gifts.  He finishes in another famous passage, which I am sure will be important later:

27
Now you are Christ's body, and individually parts of it.
28
Some people God has designated in the church to be, first, apostles; second, prophets; third, teachers; then, mighty deeds; then, gifts of healing, assistance, administration, and varieties of tongues.
29
Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work mighty deeds?
30
Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret?
31
Strive eagerly for the greatest spiritual gifts. But I shall show you a still more excellent way.

We then turn to Chapter 13... I'll give you the whole thing, for purposes of context, but I will bold the important parts:

1
If I speak in human and angelic tongues but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal.
2
And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing.
3
If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4
3 Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, (love) is not pompous, it is not inflated,
5
it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury,
6
it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth.
7
It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8
Love never fails. If there are prophecies, they will be brought to nothing; if tongues, they will cease; if knowledge, it will be brought to nothing.
9
For we know partially and we prophesy partially,
10
but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.
11
When I was a child, I used to talk as a child, think as a child, reason as a child; when I became a man, I put aside childish things.
12
At present we see indistinctly, as in a mirror, but then face to face. At present I know partially; then I shall know fully, as I am fully known.
13
So faith, hope, love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Now, the mention of the other two (faith and hope) is kinda random, but they were a well known triad at the time.  The fact that it is so random though, suggests that Paul is going to an extra length to make his point, after contrasting Love to all the other minor gifts.

What is your point? That still don't say anything about works helping you get to heaven.

I said I was going to prove that sola fide was wrong.  Did I not just do that?

[12th Doctor]

My argument isn't over yet, BTW.  I am simply working up to the point.

[12th Doctor]

Sorry, I forgot, I had already given you James, I went backwards.  Okay, Paul clearly defeats the notion on sola fide, correct?

Then I have James telling us to be doers and not only hearers of the word, correct?

So how does one be a doer of the word?  James tells us.  Good works. 

Love and good works are connected, correct?  Because how does one show their love?

And I'm not even done yet, I just want to see if you agree with me on these points.

[Josh/Devilman88]

So that you know I am not just pulling out something totally random here, I want to give some context first.  In Galatians 5, Paul tells us:

6
For in Christ Jesus, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.

This doesn't say much, admitedly, but Paul explains it a little further in 1 Corinthians.

Again, I will give the context.  Paul, for whatever reason, feels compeled to talk about Christian Spiritual gifts.  In chapter 12, he breezes over the other gifts.  He finishes in another famous passage, which I am sure will be important later:

27
Now you are Christ's body, and individually parts of it.
28
Some people God has designated in the church to be, first, apostles; second, prophets; third, teachers; then, mighty deeds; then, gifts of healing, assistance, administration, and varieties of tongues.
29
Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work mighty deeds?
30
Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret?
31
Strive eagerly for the greatest spiritual gifts. But I shall show you a still more excellent way.

We then turn to Chapter 13... I'll give you the whole thing, for purposes of context, but I will bold the important parts:

1
If I speak in human and angelic tongues but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal.
2
And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing.
3
If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4
3 Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, (love) is not pompous, it is not inflated,
5
it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury,
6
it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth.
7
It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8
Love never fails. If there are prophecies, they will be brought to nothing; if tongues, they will cease; if knowledge, it will be brought to nothing.
9
For we know partially and we prophesy partially,
10
but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.
11
When I was a child, I used to talk as a child, think as a child, reason as a child; when I became a man, I put aside childish things.
12
At present we see indistinctly, as in a mirror, but then face to face. At present I know partially; then I shall know fully, as I am fully known.
13
So faith, hope, love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Now, the mention of the other two (faith and hope) is kinda random, but they were a well known triad at the time.  The fact that it is so random though, suggests that Paul is going to an extra length to make his point, after contrasting Love to all the other minor gifts.

What is your point? That still don't say anything about works helping you get to heaven.

No, this is not talking about getting saved. This is talking about a Christian should have these qualities, but it is not required to have to be saved.

[Josh/Devilman88]

Sorry, I forgot, I had already given you James, I went backwards.  Okay, Paul clearly defeats the notion on sola fide, correct?

Then I have James telling us to be doers and not only hearers of the word, correct?

So how does one be a doer of the word?  James tells us.  Good works. 

Love and good works are connected, correct?  Because how does one show their love?

And I'm not even done yet, I just want to see if you agree with me on these points.

Like I have been saying all this time, if you are truly saved by the grace of God, then you will want do thing to spread the message of God.

James is not saying anything about works with faith helps you go to heaven. He is telling us not just take in the message of God, but help spread it through out the world.

[12th Doctor]

Sorry, I forgot, I had already given you James, I went backwards.  Okay, Paul clearly defeats the notion on sola fide, correct?

Then I have James telling us to be doers and not only hearers of the word, correct?

So how does one be a doer of the word?  James tells us.  Good works. 

Love and good works are connected, correct?  Because how does one show their love?

And I'm not even done yet, I just want to see if you agree with me on these points.

Like I have been saying all this time, if you are truly saved by the grace of God, then you will want do thing to spread the message of God.

James is not saying anything about works with faith helps you go to heaven. He is telling us not just take in the message of God, but help spread it through out the world.

Hang on... I agree, we are saved through God's grace.  That's not the point.  That is not up for discussion.

No, this is not talking about getting saved. This is talking about a Christian should have these qualities, but it is not required to have to be saved.

First off, Dude, it says it right there.  Faith without works is dead.  Paul places Love over Faith in terms of importance.  You can't deny it. 

Those passages have NOTHING to do with spreading the "message".  Nothing at all.  Even if you can't grab that by reading them, the context of the surrounding passages has nothing to do with spreading the message.  James is addressing a Christian Jewish convert community who, at least wonder if faith alone is enough.  It's true that James goes onto talk about teaching the word, but the two thoughts show no connection. The reasons I gave you the context leading up to each in both of them was so you couldn't say that. Were either Paul or James talking about "spreading the words" per se, then they would have mentioned it somewhere in those passages, don't you think.  If you look at James the entire lead up to my primary point has to do with actions, not words.

But, I figured you wouldn't believe me, so I will prepare round 2.  Give me a moment.