Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
December 14, 2019, 02:23:35 pm
News: 2020 U.S. Senate Predictions are now active.

  Atlas Forum
  General Politics
  Political Geography & Demographics (Moderator: muon2)
  1994 Alaska capital relocation vote, by districts
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Print
Author Topic: 1994 Alaska capital relocation vote, by districts  (Read 10203 times)
RBH
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2,173


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: April 22, 2007, 09:12:35 pm »

On ballot question 3, to relocate the capital of Alaska from Juneau to Wasilla.

http://www.ltgov.state.ak.us/elections/resprg94.htm

#01: 96/4 no
#02: 94/6 no
#03: 94/6 no
#04: 95/5 no
#05: 93/7 no
#06: 69/31 no
#07: 51/49 yes
#08: 59/41 yes
#09: 62/38 yes
#10: 60/40 yes
#11: 62/38 yes
#12: 61/39 yes
#13: 56/44 yes
#14: 64/36 yes
#15: 58/42 yes
#16: 62/38 yes
#17: 63/37 yes
#18: 56/44 yes
#19: 63/37 yes
#20: 61/39 yes
#21: 60/40 yes
#22: 61/39 yes
#23: 64/36 yes
#24: 64/36 yes
#25: 69/31 yes
#26: 76/24 yes
#27: 71/29 yes
#28: 77/23 yes
#29: 71/29 no
#30: 66/34 no
#31: 65/35 no
#32: 61/39 no
#33: 64/36 no
#34: 60/40 no
#35: 59/41 no
#36: 65/35 no
#37: 75/25 no
#38: 78/22 no
#39: 72/28 no
#40: 66/34 no

This passed in 22 of 40 districts, and failed 55/45

Here's an attempt at a map, using this site's 1994/2000 layout, and info from here ( http://w3.legis.state.ak.us/images/graphics/sm_elect.pdf ) and here ( http://www.gov.state.ak.us/ltgov/elections/results/electcol.gif )



So basically, the Juneau area really really wanted the capital in Juneau. Anchorage wanted the capital in Wasilla, and the rest of the state didn't want the capital in Wasilla.

A short history of moving the capital of Alaska: http://www.gov.state.ak.us/ltgov/elections/capmove.htm

Rejected capital moves
1960 - The Cook Inlet-Railbelt area
1962 - "Western Alaska, to a site not within thirty miles of Anchorage"
1974 - "a new Alaskan capital city (..) in Western Alaska at least thirty miles from Anchorage and Fairbanks."
1982 - Moving the Capital to Willow
1994 - Moving the Capital to Wasilla
2002 - Moving the state legislature to the Matanuska-Susitna Borough

In conclusion, Juneauians want the capital in Juneau, Anchorageites want the capital close to Anchorage, Fairbanksians want the capital close to Fairbanks but not near Anchorage, and the rest of the state supports the status quo.
Logged
Gabu
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 28,410
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -4.32, S: -6.52

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2007, 10:11:56 pm »

Why does it matter so much where the capital is located that they'd try and change it six times?
Logged
Padfoot
padfoot714
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,443
United States


Political Matrix
E: -2.58, S: -6.96

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2007, 10:30:34 pm »

Why does it matter so much where the capital is located that they'd try and change it six times?

Isn't Juneau supposed to be a real pain in the ass to get to even for Alaska?
Logged
True Democrat
true democrat
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 7,370
United States


Political Matrix
E: 1.10, S: -2.87

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2007, 10:36:50 pm »

Why does it matter so much where the capital is located that they'd try and change it six times?

Isn't Juneau supposed to be a real pain in the ass to get to even for Alaska?

Yeah you either have to take a plane or a boat to get there or something.  But if they moved away from the panhandle (is that the right term?), then wouldn't all those people still have a hard time getting to the new capital?
Logged
Gabu
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 28,410
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -4.32, S: -6.52

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2007, 12:02:00 am »

Why does it matter so much where the capital is located that they'd try and change it six times?

Isn't Juneau supposed to be a real pain in the ass to get to even for Alaska?

So I've heard, but why does that matter?  The capital is just where the legislative body does stuff.  I don't see why it matters where it is; the only people truly concerned with it are the state politicians.
Logged
Alcon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 30,911
United States



Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2007, 12:03:14 am »

Why does it matter so much where the capital is located that they'd try and change it six times?

Isn't Juneau supposed to be a real pain in the ass to get to even for Alaska?

So I've heard, but why does that matter?  The capital is just where the legislative body does stuff.  I don't see why it matters where it is; the only people truly concerned with it are the state politicians.

There are some kinds of business you pretty much have to do by going to the capital - accessing state records, observing/commenting on legislative actions.
Logged
RBH
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2,173


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2007, 12:24:11 am »

An Alaskan I know claims that you can testify at hearings via videolink or something.
Logged
Gabu
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 28,410
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -4.32, S: -6.52

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2007, 12:25:23 am »

Why does it matter so much where the capital is located that they'd try and change it six times?

Isn't Juneau supposed to be a real pain in the ass to get to even for Alaska?

So I've heard, but why does that matter?  The capital is just where the legislative body does stuff.  I don't see why it matters where it is; the only people truly concerned with it are the state politicians.

There are some kinds of business you pretty much have to do by going to the capital - accessing state records, observing/commenting on legislative actions.

I suppose that's a good point.
Logged
Alcon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 30,911
United States



Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2007, 02:45:31 am »

There are some kinds of business you pretty much have to do by going to the capital - accessing state records, observing/commenting on legislative actions.

I suppose that's a good point.

Although I will say that the internet has done wonders.  Still, it's kinda a pain.

There are lots of counties out there that regret county seat choices for the same reasons.
Logged
minionofmidas - supplemental forum account
Lewis Trondheim
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 58,245
India


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2007, 03:57:16 am »

Most American states moved their capitals at some point in the 19th century.

Funny though how Alaskans keep trying and failing.
Logged
Ban my account ffs!
snowguy716
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 22,696
Austria


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2007, 12:20:36 pm »

The reason it is such a hot issue is because people not from Anchorage really don't want to see the capital move there not only because it would further consolidate Anchorage as the only real center in Alaska but would also devastate Juneau, which would suffer greatly if the capital were to be moved.

I have friends from Juneau and they are vehemently against the move. 

I mean, should Washington move its capital to Seattle or Nevada to Las Vegas or New York to New York City or Illinois to Chicago or Florida to Miami or Texas to Houston or Wisconsin to Milwaukee or North Dakota to Fargo or South Dakota to Sioux Falls or Nebraska to Omaha or California to Los Angeles or any other state just because it's not located in the biggest city and thus easier to get to?

I think Anchoragites need to settle down a bit.
Logged
Colin
ColinW
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 11,695
Papua New Guinea


Political Matrix
E: 3.87, S: -6.09

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2007, 02:39:32 pm »

Why does it matter so much where the capital is located that they'd try and change it six times?

Isn't Juneau supposed to be a real pain in the ass to get to even for Alaska?

So I've heard, but why does that matter?  The capital is just where the legislative body does stuff.  I don't see why it matters where it is; the only people truly concerned with it are the state politicians.

There are some kinds of business you pretty much have to do by going to the capital - accessing state records, observing/commenting on legislative actions.

Well besides that you have to remember the Alaskan mentality about these things. The state legislature has a much larger role in the governing of Alaska than it is in any other state that I've been too. Because of Alaska's isolation from the rest of the United States it looks on its legislature as the body that actually conducts a vast amount of the business pertaining to Alaska and that the Congress is nothing more than a voice from the Lower 48 which sometimes as something pertaining to Alaska on the menu but usually leaves it alone.

So you conbine this with the general isolation of Juneau, and the rest of the Panhandle area, along with the feeling of many central Alaskans that bringing the legislators closer to the centre of population in Alaska would make them more accesible and more aware of problems of a majority of the citizens.

To Snowguy, the reason why this is different is that you can drive and easily get to places like Reno, Tacoma, Madison, Albany, Springfield or any of the other cities that you stated. To get to Juneau you have to either fly, to an airport with one of the worst records for delays because of the constant fog and rain in the Panhandle, or take a ferry, which could take as long as three days from Anchorage. To drive at least some of the way you'd need to drive across the Canadian border into the Yukon and then south to Skagway. Then you'd have to take an overnight ferry to Juneau, and this is after about a 15 hour drive from Anchorage to Skagway. So they do have a point.
Logged
CultureKing
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,196
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2007, 10:24:12 pm »

Why does it matter so much where the capital is located that they'd try and change it six times?

Isn't Juneau supposed to be a real pain in the ass to get to even for Alaska?

So I've heard, but why does that matter?  The capital is just where the legislative body does stuff.  I don't see why it matters where it is; the only people truly concerned with it are the state politicians.

There are some kinds of business you pretty much have to do by going to the capital - accessing state records, observing/commenting on legislative actions.

Well besides that you have to remember the Alaskan mentality about these things. The state legislature has a much larger role in the governing of Alaska than it is in any other state that I've been too. Because of Alaska's isolation from the rest of the United States it looks on its legislature as the body that actually conducts a vast amount of the business pertaining to Alaska and that the Congress is nothing more than a voice from the Lower 48 which sometimes as something pertaining to Alaska on the menu but usually leaves it alone.

So you conbine this with the general isolation of Juneau, and the rest of the Panhandle area, along with the feeling of many central Alaskans that bringing the legislators closer to the centre of population in Alaska would make them more accesible and more aware of problems of a majority of the citizens.

To Snowguy, the reason why this is different is that you can drive and easily get to places like Reno, Tacoma, Madison, Albany, Springfield or any of the other cities that you stated. To get to Juneau you have to either fly, to an airport with one of the worst records for delays because of the constant fog and rain in the Panhandle, or take a ferry, which could take as long as three days from Anchorage. To drive at least some of the way you'd need to drive across the Canadian border into the Yukon and then south to Skagway. Then you'd have to take an overnight ferry to Juneau, and this is after about a 15 hour drive from Anchorage to Skagway. So they do have a point.
umm... Tacoma isnt quite the capital of Washington  (unless I missed something and now need to move)
Logged
Ban my account ffs!
snowguy716
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 22,696
Austria


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2007, 11:20:48 am »

I look at it this way:  Alaska is a vast land with a small population.  Juneau is a city of about 30,000 and is one of the largest in Alaska.  If you move the capital out of Juneau, you are removing the lifeblood of the city, and I think the negative consequences of the capital leaving Juneau would outweigh the positive consequences of having it in Anchorage.

I honestly don't know why the Alaskan government couldn't set up some sort of teleconferencing in certain towns/cities so that you could communicate with your representative.

Why not have all state records put into a database that could be accessible in Anchorage and Fairbanks and Nome so that you could access the document and print it if need be?

We live in a world connected by more than just roads and rails.  Sure, it's a pain to fly all the way to Juneau, but this "pain" could be readily reduced by implementing a few technologies.

And yes.  I am aware of how long the ferry takes (not overnight, though). I rode the ferry from Juneau to Skagway and it took about 4 hours.  The newer high speed ferries can make it in 2 and a half hours.

I just don't think it's worth it.
Logged
Colin
ColinW
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 11,695
Papua New Guinea


Political Matrix
E: 3.87, S: -6.09

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2007, 05:56:13 pm »

We're just as much the capital of Washington as Reno is of Nevada.  Tongue

Ahh sh**t. Olympia and Carson City. See this is why these sh**tty ass capitals should be moved.

God damn it I hate when I act like a stupid idiot and people catch me. I don't care if I just pull stuff out of my ass if they don't catch it.
Logged
jimrtex
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9,211
Marshall Islands


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2007, 06:39:26 pm »

Yes.

The problem with places like Austin and Juneau is all they have is the capital, so they are big on expanding government programs.  The US capital should be moved as well.
Logged
AkSaber
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6,320
United States


Political Matrix
E: 9.35, S: -8.26

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2007, 12:52:16 am »

Another possible reason why some want the capital moved is that Juneau sits at the base of a mountain. When there's a heavy snowfall the threat of an avalanche is always there.
Logged
memphis
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 15,990


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2007, 01:16:15 am »
« Edited: April 25, 2007, 01:20:26 am by memphis »

Yes.

The problem with places like Austin and Juneau is all they have is the capital, so they are big on expanding government programs.  The US capital should be moved as well.

Shame on you for not knowing that your own capital has a lot more going on than just the government. It a really fast growing medium-sized city. In any case would building a road to Juneau that difficult? I know that the geography sucks, but we have roads that go all sorts of crazy places. It seems to me that if they can find $280 million dollars to build a bridge to nowhere, they can find whatever it takes to connect a state capital to the outside world. After glancing at a road atlas, it appears to me that the most logical step would be connecting Juneau to the Canadian road system, which, in turn, connects to American highways.
Logged
Colin
ColinW
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 11,695
Papua New Guinea


Political Matrix
E: 3.87, S: -6.09

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2007, 06:33:58 pm »

Yes.

The problem with places like Austin and Juneau is all they have is the capital, so they are big on expanding government programs.  The US capital should be moved as well.

It a really fast growing medium-sized city. In any case would building a road to Juneau that difficult? I know that the geography sucks, but we have roads that go all sorts of crazy places. It seems to me that if they can find $280 million dollars to build a bridge to nowhere, they can find whatever it takes to connect a state capital to the outside world.

One plan for a road said that it would cost around 2 billion dollars, if done on the cheap. If you are actually including the fact that most major projects like that go over budget you could be looking at 3 billion or so dollars. The terrain is some of the most hostile to road construction in the world, outside of places like Greenland and Nunavut. Add that to the fact that the closest road is the Alaska Highway which is nearly 450 miles east of Juneau and you have a major construction project on your hands.
Logged
memphis
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 15,990


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2007, 12:14:35 am »

Yes.

The problem with places like Austin and Juneau is all they have is the capital, so they are big on expanding government programs.  The US capital should be moved as well.

It a really fast growing medium-sized city. In any case would building a road to Juneau that difficult? I know that the geography sucks, but we have roads that go all sorts of crazy places. It seems to me that if they can find $280 million dollars to build a bridge to nowhere, they can find whatever it takes to connect a state capital to the outside world.

One plan for a road said that it would cost around 2 billion dollars, if done on the cheap. If you are actually including the fact that most major projects like that go over budget you could be looking at 3 billion or so dollars. The terrain is some of the most hostile to road construction in the world, outside of places like Greenland and Nunavut. Add that to the fact that the closest road is the Alaska Highway which is nearly 450 miles east of Juneau and you have a major construction project on your hands.

3 billion is may be a week or two in Iraq. If that's all it takes to build a road to a state capital, I don't see why not. They spent 10% of that to build a bridge to a virtually uninhated island.  Looking at my road atlas, it doesn't look that far (maybe a hundred miles or so) to Skagway or Haines, both of which are connected to roads.
Logged
Cubby
Pim Fortuyn
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5,075
Israel


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2007, 02:19:41 am »

I support moving the capital to Wasilla (the move was to Wasilla, not Anchorage, Snowguy). This way the capital would be accesible to a large majority of Alaskans, but not be outside Anchorage.

Juneau is a bad place to have a capital. Its like having Eureka as the capital of California or Plattsburgh as the capital of New York, as remote and distant from everyone as possible. Yes Juneau would suffer, but the rest of the state shouldn't be cut off from their own government.
Logged
Colin
ColinW
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 11,695
Papua New Guinea


Political Matrix
E: 3.87, S: -6.09

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2007, 07:30:58 pm »

Juneau is a bad place to have a capital. Its like having Eureka as the capital of California or Plattsburgh as the capital of New York, as remote and distant from everyone as possible. Yes Juneau would suffer, but the rest of the state shouldn't be cut off from their own government.

Well it would be like having the capital of New York in Plattsburg, accept all road links are severed with the outside world, and a ring of 15,000 foot high mountains is placed all around the city. Wink
Logged
Cubby
Pim Fortuyn
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5,075
Israel


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2007, 11:53:32 pm »

Juneau is a bad place to have a capital. Its like having Eureka as the capital of California or Plattsburgh as the capital of New York, as remote and distant from everyone as possible. Yes Juneau would suffer, but the rest of the state shouldn't be cut off from their own government.

Well it would be like having the capital of New York in Plattsburg, accept all road links are severed with the outside world, and a ring of 15,000 foot high mountains is placed all around the city. Wink

Right, I forgot about that. All the more reason to move the capital.

It would be like having Honolulu become the new Washington D.C.
Logged
Gabu
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 28,410
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -4.32, S: -6.52

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2007, 12:58:53 pm »

One plan for a road said that it would cost around 2 billion dollars, if done on the cheap. If you are actually including the fact that most major projects like that go over budget you could be looking at 3 billion or so dollars. The terrain is some of the most hostile to road construction in the world, outside of places like Greenland and Nunavut. Add that to the fact that the closest road is the Alaska Highway which is nearly 450 miles east of Juneau and you have a major construction project on your hands.

Well, I don't know about anyone else, but this sounds like a job for Ted Stevens, preferably inserted as an add-on onto a piece of legislation praising kittens for being cute.
Logged
jimrtex
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9,211
Marshall Islands


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2007, 01:02:47 pm »

Yes.

The problem with places like Austin and Juneau is all they have is the capital, so they are big on expanding government programs.  The US capital should be moved as well.

It a really fast growing medium-sized city. In any case would building a road to Juneau that difficult? I know that the geography sucks, but we have roads that go all sorts of crazy places. It seems to me that if they can find $280 million dollars to build a bridge to nowhere, they can find whatever it takes to connect a state capital to the outside world.

One plan for a road said that it would cost around 2 billion dollars, if done on the cheap. If you are actually including the fact that most major projects like that go over budget you could be looking at 3 billion or so dollars. The terrain is some of the most hostile to road construction in the world, outside of places like Greenland and Nunavut. Add that to the fact that the closest road is the Alaska Highway which is nearly 450 miles east of Juneau and you have a major construction project on your hands.

3 billion is may be a week or two in Iraq. If that's all it takes to build a road to a state capital, I don't see why not. They spent 10% of that to build a bridge to a virtually uninhated island.  Looking at my road atlas, it doesn't look that far (maybe a hundred miles or so) to Skagway or Haines, both of which are connected to roads.
Highway from Ketchikan to its airport including two bridges, which would also open up developable land on an island that is currently virtually uninhabited.

Juneau to Skagway & Haines.
The original proposal would have built the road from Juneau to Skagway with a ferry link to Haines.  After it was determined that route would have a negative impact on a historical district in the Skagway area, the last part of the route to Skagway was also switched to ferry service.

The project is apparently under re-study.  Gov. Palin cancelled a girder contract that had been let in the last days of the Murkowski administration.

Lynn Canal Materials Contract Cancelled

Logged
Pages: [1] 2 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length
Logout

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

© Dave Leip's Atlas of U.S. Elections, LLC