A Tribute To Communism
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Author Topic: A Tribute To Communism  (Read 3654 times)
Joe Republic
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« on: May 13, 2007, 10:24:12 AM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyUu-8nbd58

Definitely worth a watch, comrades.



(If anybody else is wondering, the song is 'Hurdy Gurdy Man' by Donovan.)
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SPC
Chuck Hagel 08
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« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2007, 01:33:15 PM »

Good video.
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David S
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« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2007, 07:44:42 PM »

Good post Joe, shows communism in action.
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Undisguised Sockpuppet
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« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2007, 08:27:18 PM »

good video
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tik 🪀✨
ComradeCarter
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« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2007, 01:48:11 PM »

Good morning communism.
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memphis
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« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2007, 04:42:32 PM »

Yeah, Communism is really f'ed up. America's had its moments too, though. A slavery based capitalist system, which is what we used to be all about produced outrageous death tolls as well.
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2007, 09:02:00 PM »

Cool song.  It's my default on MySpace now.
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MaC
Milk_and_cereal
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« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2007, 10:54:24 PM »

Yeah, Communism is really f'ed up. America's had its moments too, though. A slavery based capitalist system, which is what we used to be all about produced outrageous death tolls as well.

Are you opebo or something? 
Capitalism is the only moral political-economic system.
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memphis
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« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2007, 12:52:34 AM »

Yeah, Communism is really f'ed up. America's had its moments too, though. A slavery based capitalist system, which is what we used to be all about produced outrageous death tolls as well.

Are you opebo or something? 
Capitalism is the only moral political-economic system.

I was talking about before the Civil War. I should have been clearer when I said "used to be."
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Sam Spade
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« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2007, 03:17:46 PM »

Yeah, Communism is really f'ed up. America's had its moments too, though. A slavery based capitalist system, which is what we used to be all about produced outrageous death tolls as well.

Are you opebo or something? 
Capitalism is the only moral political-economic system.

I was talking about before the Civil War. I should have been clearer when I said "used to be."

Southern slavery was not "capitalist" by any stretch of the imagination.  If anything, that system was quite feudal in origin.

You might have a better case with your statement by looking at Northern economies post-Civil War to 1900 or the English economy from about 1830-1880, though the workers there weren't "literally" slaves.
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memphis
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« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2007, 09:26:40 AM »

Yeah, Communism is really f'ed up. America's had its moments too, though. A slavery based capitalist system, which is what we used to be all about produced outrageous death tolls as well.

Are you opebo or something? 
Capitalism is the only moral political-economic system.

I was talking about before the Civil War. I should have been clearer when I said "used to be."

Southern slavery was not "capitalist" by any stretch of the imagination.  If anything, that system was quite feudal in origin.

You might have a better case with your statement by looking at Northern economies post-Civil War to 1900 or the English economy from about 1830-1880, though the workers there weren't "literally" slaves.

Southern slavery is what made the Industrial Revolution and the beginnings of modern capitalism possible. It was all about textiles in those days, and the cotton was rooted in slavery.
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MaC
Milk_and_cereal
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« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2007, 12:30:40 PM »

Yeah, Communism is really f'ed up. America's had its moments too, though. A slavery based capitalist system, which is what we used to be all about produced outrageous death tolls as well.

Are you opebo or something? 
Capitalism is the only moral political-economic system.

I was talking about before the Civil War. I should have been clearer when I said "used to be."

Southern slavery was not "capitalist" by any stretch of the imagination.  If anything, that system was quite feudal in origin.

You might have a better case with your statement by looking at Northern economies post-Civil War to 1900 or the English economy from about 1830-1880, though the workers there weren't "literally" slaves.

Southern slavery is what made the Industrial Revolution and the beginnings of modern capitalism possible. It was all about textiles in those days, and the cotton was rooted in slavery.

The northern economy wasn't limited to textiles though.  Indeed it was a large part of the economy and the southern economy was mostly on the agricultural sect.

Sam hits it on the head, when he says that the slave system was a pre-capitalist system (that was on it's way out).

To your assertion though, I would disagree.  Had the south never had slavery, they would've used different technology and means to produce (as it was turning this way-slavery would've ended by the late 1800s if left alone because it was inherently ineffecient).
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Sam Spade
SamSpade
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« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2007, 01:15:57 PM »

Yeah, Communism is really f'ed up. America's had its moments too, though. A slavery based capitalist system, which is what we used to be all about produced outrageous death tolls as well.

Are you opebo or something? 
Capitalism is the only moral political-economic system.

I was talking about before the Civil War. I should have been clearer when I said "used to be."

Southern slavery was not "capitalist" by any stretch of the imagination.  If anything, that system was quite feudal in origin.

You might have a better case with your statement by looking at Northern economies post-Civil War to 1900 or the English economy from about 1830-1880, though the workers there weren't "literally" slaves.

Southern slavery is what made the Industrial Revolution and the beginnings of modern capitalism possible. It was all about textiles in those days, and the cotton was rooted in slavery.

But with the exception of a couple of textile mills in Richmond and Charleston, there were no textile mills in the South.  Nearly all of the cotton went to the textile mills in the North and in England. 

The South was not providing labor in the making of textiles - an industrial endeavor, but rather providing labor in the growing in cotton - an agricultural endeavor, an important distinction.  Southern slavery was thus built out of an agricultural model whose remnants were in feudal relationships between the lord (master) and his serfs (the slaves) and whose effects fueled the materials for an important aspect of the Industrial Revolution. 

Analogizing, a cog in the wheel does not make the vehicle run, but rather holds it together.  That's what the South was to the Industrial Revolution.  It provided the goods, because it was the best and cheapest place to get the goods at the time.  And when that cog became unnecessary, as it did during the Civil War when England started importing its cotton en mass from India, the South's pseudo-feudal system should have ceased to exist.  It didn't mainly because of Union blundering and Southern ideals.

The point is that regardless of whether the "Industrial Revolution" had existed or not, the South still would have had slavery (and the slave trade) and did, as the countless slaves imported to assist in the growing of tobacco before the 1780s proves.  In fact, the capitalistic tendencies of the North and of England indirectly led to that society's growing abhorrence of the slave trade by the early-to-mid 1800s and which would eventually lead to the elimination of the horrible industrial conditions by the beginning of the 20th century.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2007, 01:29:59 PM »


Since when have you been a Marxist?
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2007, 01:33:55 PM »

Something amusing about the assertion of the importance of the South to the world economy in the 19th century, is that it was that same assumption that led the South to act as stupidly as it did during the 1850's and 1860's (ie; the myth of "King Cotton" and so on).
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MaC
Milk_and_cereal
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« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2007, 10:50:02 PM »


he wasn't wrong about everything.  Just most things.
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memphis
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« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2007, 03:27:50 AM »

Yeah, Communism is really f'ed up. America's had its moments too, though. A slavery based capitalist system, which is what we used to be all about produced outrageous death tolls as well.

Are you opebo or something? 
Capitalism is the only moral political-economic system.

I was talking about before the Civil War. I should have been clearer when I said "used to be."

Southern slavery was not "capitalist" by any stretch of the imagination.  If anything, that system was quite feudal in origin.

You might have a better case with your statement by looking at Northern economies post-Civil War to 1900 or the English economy from about 1830-1880, though the workers there weren't "literally" slaves.

Southern slavery is what made the Industrial Revolution and the beginnings of modern capitalism possible. It was all about textiles in those days, and the cotton was rooted in slavery.

But with the exception of a couple of textile mills in Richmond and Charleston, there were no textile mills in the South.  Nearly all of the cotton went to the textile mills in the North and in England. 

The South was not providing labor in the making of textiles - an industrial endeavor, but rather providing labor in the growing in cotton - an agricultural endeavor, an important distinction.  Southern slavery was thus built out of an agricultural model whose remnants were in feudal relationships between the lord (master) and his serfs (the slaves) and whose effects fueled the materials for an important aspect of the Industrial Revolution. 

Analogizing, a cog in the wheel does not make the vehicle run, but rather holds it together.  That's what the South was to the Industrial Revolution.  It provided the goods, because it was the best and cheapest place to get the goods at the time.  And when that cog became unnecessary, as it did during the Civil War when England started importing its cotton en mass from India, the South's pseudo-feudal system should have ceased to exist.  It didn't mainly because of Union blundering and Southern ideals.

The point is that regardless of whether the "Industrial Revolution" had existed or not, the South still would have had slavery (and the slave trade) and did, as the countless slaves imported to assist in the growing of tobacco before the 1780s proves.  In fact, the capitalistic tendencies of the North and of England indirectly led to that society's growing abhorrence of the slave trade by the early-to-mid 1800s and which would eventually lead to the elimination of the horrible industrial conditions by the beginning of the 20th century.

Slavery was key to the development of modern capitalism because the textile industry is what made modern capitalism. The Old South's many plantations were an integral part of an early industrial society. I really can't make it any plainer than that. Growing cotton may have been an agricultural process, but it made industry possible and was the first step in the lengthy textile process. Without slavery, textiles and modern capitalism would not have developed at all the way they did. Furthermore, because cotton cannot it be eaten, one can only grow it (with or without slaves) for financial gain, necessarily making it part of a  modern market economy.   There are still a few farmers in American today, but they are certainly not feudal just because their trade is in agriculture.
In any case, we can all agree that Communism is a horrible cover for totalitarian dictatorship, which the clip demonstrated well.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2007, 06:34:05 AM »

Yeah, Communism is really f'ed up. America's had its moments too, though. A slavery based capitalist system, which is what we used to be all about produced outrageous death tolls as well.

Slavery didn't have a high death toll. Why would you want to kill off your own property/workforce?
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Alcon
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« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2007, 07:12:10 AM »

Slavery didn't have a high death toll.

Weren't there more than a few deaths on the slave boats?
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StatesRights
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« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2007, 07:24:47 AM »

Slavery didn't have a high death toll.

Weren't there more than a few deaths on the slave boats?

I'm not putting that into the equation considering the fact they weren't truly owned slaves yet.
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Sam Spade
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« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2007, 08:18:49 AM »

Something amusing about the assertion of the importance of the South to the world economy in the 19th century, is that it was that same assumption that led the South to act as stupidly as it did during the 1850's and 1860's (ie; the myth of "King Cotton" and so on).

Not to mention afterwards.  Really, the entire period from 1870 to 1930 in the South can fit under that rubric.
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Alcon
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« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2007, 08:33:49 AM »

Slavery didn't have a high death toll.

Weren't there more than a few deaths on the slave boats?

I'm not putting that into the equation considering the fact they weren't truly owned slaves yet.

OK, so slavery wasn't responsible...just the slave-trading industry and the demand for slavery.

That's kind of a trivial distinction, man.
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DanielX
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« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2007, 09:43:53 AM »

The south, pre-1960 or so, was not a truly capitalist society, but a feudalist one. They were extremely stubborn at giving up the feudalist aspects of society in favor of capitalistic ones; that is why the south's economy was (and in some places still is) screwed up. Had the South adopted a truly capitalistic economy and industrialized post-1870, today it would be comparable to the Midwest or Mid-Atlantic states.

Slavery was economically inefficient. A purely capitalist economy cannot be founded on it; however, a slave-based industrialization is possible (the Soviet Union came fairly close - I consider communism-as-practiced and feudalism-as-practiced to be frighteningly similar in some respects), but it would not have happened with the South unless it had seceeded and cut off industrial ties with the North (as the free industry in the North was far more efficient).

Also. textiles were not the only industrializing agent. The world would still have industrialized, if perhaps a bit more slowly, on the backs of steel, petroleum, agricultural processing (centralized when railroads and canals increased distance of travel for produce), and various goods from iron stoves to steel plows.
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memphis
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« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2007, 04:12:44 AM »
« Edited: May 22, 2007, 04:41:01 AM by memphis »

Yeah, Communism is really f'ed up. America's had its moments too, though. A slavery based capitalist system, which is what we used to be all about produced outrageous death tolls as well.

Slavery didn't have a high death toll. Why would you want to kill off your own property/workforce?

Well, America did have the highest success in the Western Hemisphere for slaves not dying quickly. Unlike other countries, we were able to maintain slavery by natural increase rather than having to continue importation in the 19th century. On the other hand, slaves did drop like flies in places that were prone to diseases, like South Carolina's rice plantations. In contrast, there was so much money to be made in sugar in warmer climates that slaves were quite literally worked to death. In Brazil, it was considered a great return on your investment if your slave lived for 5 years.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2007, 07:21:39 AM »

Slavery didn't have a high death toll.

Weren't there more than a few deaths on the slave boats?

I'm not putting that into the equation considering the fact they weren't truly owned slaves yet.

OK, so slavery wasn't responsible...just the slave-trading industry and the demand for slavery.

That's kind of a trivial distinction, man.

Now, the arab slavery on the other hand had a high death toll. There is a reason why there is no black minority in the East...
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