Roy Moore 2004

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

yawn!

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

I dont know exactly how popular the guy is in the south, however if he runs strong like 15-20% he could throw some deep south states to a democrat, even more likely if the democrats nominate Edwards.

He could even win Alabama, be like a George Wallace candidate.

I find it quite funny that those outside of the Religious Right (RR) think they know the level of support within the RR for Moore.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Not sure I could give any insight into the RR.  It is very nebulous and not interconnected at all.  I couldn’t even give you insights into a specific denomination since I go to an inter-denominational church.  There are many different opinions in my church and even different interpretation of our own pastor’s sermons.  People’s ears tend to filter a sermon toward their own beliefs.  But we accept the fact we are individuals with differing opinions.

Also, I don’t believe the Ten Commandments are in force for the NT, so I really don’t understand Moore’s point in the first place.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

JMF seems to claim that the ten commandments only apply to Jews and that he is allowed to kill (sorry, I'm being polemic. He's forbidden to kill, but not because of the Ten Commandments but because it also says so in the NT somewhere). I think I dimly remember a few verses in Mark that could be interpreted in that way, but no major denomination in Germany follows that interpretation.

I don’t know what verse in Mark you’re referring to, but:

1st)  It is impossible to separate the Ten Commandments from the other 600 commandments of the Law of Moses.
2nd) Jesus said in Mat 22:36-39 that the Two Greatest Commandments are “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind” (Dt 6:5) and “Love your neighbor as yourself” (Lev 19:…You won’t find those two commands included within the 10 Commandments, for the 10 Commandments were never the cornerstone of God’s will.
3rd)  As far as those German denominations disagreeing with me…unless they rest from sundown Friday night until sundown Saturday night, they are in violation of the 10 Commandments since the 4th Commandment was to “Keep the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.”  Nowhere in the NT does it refer to the Sabbath as Sunday.

Now, don’t get me wrong, I do believe there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, but I believe that remaining rest is the eternal rest in Heaven; for the original Sabbath in Genesis 2:2-3 was NOT a one day rest like the one given to the Jews in the 10 Commandment, rather it was an eternal rest.  

The NT freedom from this command is backed up in Rom 14:5; Col 2:16; Gal 4:10; and Heb 3:7-4:12 and is in agreement with the entire NT, the prophesies of the OT, as well as the first biblical reference of the Sabbath given in the account of Creation before the 10 Commandments was even given.

Thus the NT Sabbath of an eternal heavenly rest matches the enternal rest God took in Gen 2:2, which is unlike the one day a week rest given to the Jews.

The Sabbath given to the Jews in the 10 Commandments was simply a foreshadowing of the true Sabbath that would last for eternity.  As it is written: “God rested from ALL his work” (Gen 2:2).  And again, “his work has been finished since the creation of the world” (Heb 4:4).

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

The Ten Commandments are just one of those Biblical texts you see quoted the most. Though the point about the Sabbath seems logical to me, both Catholics and Protestants go about and teach people that this is one of the bible's most important texts.

From a biblical perspective, the significance of the 10 Commandments is that it was the very first scripture given to man and remains the only scripture written literally by God himself.

But the scripture states that the 10 Commandments served as a testimony against humanity, thus it became a death warrant, which was only removed by the death of Christ.

The 10 Commandments, written by God himself, are also a foreshadowing of Christ writing his law on the hearts of Christians at the receiving of the Holy Spirit.

There is much for the Christian to be taught from the 10 Commandments, but they are not the standard for the NT Church, rather they simply serve as a shadow of the reality that is found in Christ.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

As long as they don't take an interest in you or deserves to get their teeth kicked in, right?

Kicking in someone's teeth that is threatening or trying to take control of my family is not against the teachings of the bible.  Indeed, I am told to turn the other cheek if *I* am slapped, but those instructions didn't restrict me from taking action if someone is abusing my family.

But in the first example you cited, I don't know what you mean by "taking an interest in you"?  If busybodies are whom you're referring to...telling someone to butt out doesn't mean I don't love them.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

OK, then...they might not love you back when you call them busy-bodies and throw them out, though...

And I'm sure the money-changers weren't too thrilled with Jesus when he used a whip and drove them from the Temple....calling someone a busybody is pretty mild in comparison.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

I don't know if that's a correct parallell, but I suppose your point is that Jesus loved everyone, even the money-changers, right?

Simply trying to point out that even the use of force is not contradictory with love.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Jesus' love for the money-changers...OK, I will accept it in principle.

I suppose I could mention biblical examples of people God hated, but that would be a little off topic.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

What, bringing the gays up again?

No, not gays.  But there are some people the bible states that God does hate.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

I am interested then, who?

Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated. (Rom 9:13, Mal 1:3)

The arrogant cannot stand in your presence; you hate all who do wrong. (Psa 5:5)

You must not live according to the customs of the nations I am going to drive out before you. Because they did all these things, I abhorred them. (Lev 20:23)

There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him: 17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, 18 a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, 19 a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers. (Psa 6:16-19)

"Because of all their wickedness in Gilgal, I hated them there. (Hosea 9:15)

So I reflected on all this and concluded that the righteous and the wise and what they do are in God's hands, but no man knows whether love or hate awaits him.(Ecc 9:1)

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

OK, so God has a lot more hate than I thought then...

"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge" is not written for no reason.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

JMF, what version of the Bible is that? (just curious, not being offensive or seeking trouble etc.)

I believe it is the NIV, but it reads the same in protestant (KJV, NASB, etc) and Catholic (NAB, D-R.etc) translations.  

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

I believe it is the moral  imperitive that every God loving American get in touch with Roy and get him to run.

Now a lefty wants to create a "moral imperitive" for us?  LOL.