Should masturbation be legal.

[KillerPollo]

Yeeeeah, What do YOU know, Skeetface?

[Brambila]

As immoral as it is, I don't think the state should illegalize it, as this has to do with an interior addiction. I don't think the state has very much of a capability to enforce it anyway.

I think its quite sad that so many people are taking this lightly. Most likely, what I am saying is going to be taken as a joke too. I don't think people realize what masturbation-- which often can be manifested in an addictive form-- is incredibly disordered and hurtful to oneself.

It is depressing to think that something once considered shameful is encouraged.

[12th Doctor]

As immoral as it is, I don't think the state should illegalize it, as this has to do with an interior addiction. I don't think the state has very much of a capability to enforce it anyway.

I think its quite sad that so many people are taking this lightly. Most likely, what I am saying is going to be taken as a joke too. I don't think people realize what masturbation-- which often can be manifested in an addictive form-- is incredibly disordered and hurtful to oneself.

It is depressing to think that something once considered shameful is encouraged.

Wow... its been a while.  Welcome back.

[jokerman]

I think its quite sad that so many people are taking this lightly. Most likely, what I am saying is going to be taken as a joke too. I don't think people realize what masturbation-- which often can be manifested in an addictive form-- is incredibly disordered and hurtful to oneself.

Please elaborate.

[Ebowed]

It is depressing to think that something once considered shameful is encouraged.

Like women having jobs?

[Brambila]

I think its quite sad that so many people are taking this lightly. Most likely, what I am saying is going to be taken as a joke too. I don't think people realize what masturbation-- which often can be manifested in an addictive form-- is incredibly disordered and hurtful to oneself.

Please elaborate.

I know masturbation to be a serious moral disorder. I focuses all of one's pleasure into one's self, instead of what it is for-- that is for the coming together between a man and a woman, and the manifestation of this love is found in the child. Sex is something more important than to be used for fun. At this point, everyone is having sex-- most Americans lose their virginity before they're 18th birthday-- and look at the results. Increased pedophilia cases; more single mothers; increasing amounts of sex-related crimes; increased amounts of STDs; less families; etc. At this rate, pedophilia will be considered acceptable, and the world will turn out not much different than Aldous Huxley's Brave New World.

[Ebowed]

I know masturbation to be a serious moral disorder. I focuses all of one's pleasure into one's self, instead of what it is for-- that is for the coming together between a man and a woman, and the manifestation of this love is found in the child.

I am curious as to which psychiatric authorities agree with your assessment that masturbation is a "serious moral disorder."  As far as I am aware, masturbation has been found to have absolutely no negative effects on anything whatsoever, unless used in an inappropriate context, which may well apply to pretty much anything (i.e. chronic masturbation, public masturbation, etc., but these things apply to the problems of addiction and indecency, respectively).  Conservatively speaking, over 90% of males and 80% of females engage in the practice with any degree of frequency, nor has this changed in recent times.  If masturbation is the moral disorder you claim it is, why have the catastrophic effects of masturbation you mention only applied to a smaller segment of the population, and why are we only seeing these effects now when people have masturbated since "time began"?

Have you considered that perhaps masturbation works to relieve stress as opposed to self-indulgent pleasure?  Let's be honest; people don't masturbate because they love the way they look-- they do it to relieve tensions and relax, among other things.

Increased pedophilia cases; more single mothers; increasing amounts of sex-related crimes; increased amounts of STDs; less families; etc. At this rate, pedophilia will be considered acceptable

So, masturbation will indirectly lead to people thinking that pedophilia is acceptable.  That's something of a stretch.

Here are the facts:
* People will engage in sexual activity before marriage.  A lot of people may wait, but many who say they will end up forgoing that vow and engaging in sex, unprepared and often without using protection.  If you want lower rates of STIs, support comprehensive sex education so that people know the facts about sex and can make up their minds on whether they want to wait based on their religious principles, and not false social or scientific arguments.
* Masturbation presents no physical or emotional harm to anyone.  There is no risk of spreading STIs, no risk of pregnancy, and is a completely normal practice that emotionally healthy people engage in at any frequency (unless they are already having sex frequently enough to decrease their need to masturbate).
* Engaging in sex before marriage does not increase the likelihood that you will be a pedophile.  I'm sorry, there is just no credible reason to think that, or any other type of perceived sexual promiscuity for that matter.  Nor will support of pedophilia rise in any society which takes an active interest in the well-being of children.

[Brambila]

I think its important to lay out several things. First of all, the APA is not a very reliable source. They have constantly taken back many things they have believed to be true, and their studies are often completely erroneous. They lack consistency. This is all stemmed from the fact that in 1973 the APA was essentially hijacked by homosexual sympathizers. In fact, the psychologist, Dr. Robert Spitzer, has been criticized recently for bad studies, and he is the same person who convinced the APA board to remove Homosexuality from the list of mental illnesses, paving the way for the modern sexual revolution to take place.

Second, you talk about masturbation relieving stress. I’m not a psychologist, so I’m not necessarily qualified to assess this properly (Although most psychologists aren’t anyway), but from my view, is masturbation really a good way to relieve stress? Let's look at where some kinds of stress stem from-- anger, sexual pressure, and depression. First the obvious one-- do you believe that one can relieve stress from sexual pressure by committing a sexual act? I think it would have absolutely the opposite effect. If one is having sexual pressure, the worst thing for the person to do is to do anything sexual. Let's take anger and depression-- we all know that anger and depression lead to many horrible crimes. Do you think that mixing this with sex will solve the issue? This only transfers the anger and depression to a sexual form, and in doing so, harbors a sexual addiction. One can trace who has pedophiliac or sexual addictive tendencies to this—using masturbation to relieve stress from anger, rejection, depression, etc.

There are a number of things you stated, let me start with this:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I never said that. I never even brought marriage into the equation. I said that the fact that the general populous is increasing in sexual promiscuity is the reason for why we are having so many problems now a days that come in this sexual form—pedophilia, sex-related violent crimes, divorce, greater amounts of STDs, etc. This rampant promiscuity around the country is encouraging children to be sexual active at very young ages. (I look around at middle schools—once a time of innocence—and I see 6th grade boys inappropriately touching their girlfriends.) It is this promiscuity that is leading to so many problems in our society.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

So says the APA and AMA—two organizations with a history of supporting this. Already, the APA is paving the path to a future condoning of pedophilia, in saying that child abuse is only temporarily hurtful to the child, and more so, implying that if children were OK with having a sexual relationship, the child wouldn’t be negatively effected. 

[??????????]

Glad to see Brambila bringing thought and logic back to the forum.

[Speed of Sound]

Glad to see Brambila bringing thought and logic back to the forum.

You do realize that everyone is trying not bust out laughing over his ridiculousness as they post thier replies, right?


Look, it harms no one or a sh**t load of people would be way worse off physically than now, and is way safer regarding disease and pregnancy, along with relieving sexual tension, something which, if built up enough, can completely consume people. If anything, it is a true miracle! (Im rephrasing Ebowed, who is 100% correct, just in hopes that second time it will sink in)

PS: dont try the morality thing on me. As a Humanist, I find everything sex related to be healthy for humans.

[??????????]

I'm trying not to bust out laughing from your defense of Bonds.

[Alcon]

First the obvious one-- do you believe that one can relieve stress from sexual pressure by committing a sexual act? I think it would have absolutely the opposite effect. If one is having sexual pressure, the worst thing for the person to do is to do anything sexual.

How does that track?  Why would sexual stress be exacerbated by committing a sexual act?  Of course, that is, unless you feel guilty about committing sexual acts, a trait which seems almost exclusively limited to people from your camp.

And, there's a simple non-psychological answer: positive endorphins and pleasure.  Obviously, there is a biological drive to have sex, and satisfying a biological desire without causing anyone else (or yourself, I'd argue) harm has positive consequences.

[Gabu]

First the obvious one-- do you believe that one can relieve stress from sexual pressure by committing a sexual act? I think it would have absolutely the opposite effect. If one is having sexual pressure, the worst thing for the person to do is to do anything sexual.

Sexual pressure stems from a desire to orgasm.  Masturbation makes you do so.  Hence, stress relieved; you no longer have that desire once you do.

[Ebowed]

First of all, the APA is not a very reliable source. They have constantly taken back many things they have believed to be true

Actually, I would expect scientific and medical organizations to be able to revise their positions in light of new evidence.  Sticking with the same old positions for the sake of consistency in that sort of field is completely wrong.  When new studies bring conflicting results, why would it be inappropriate to change your position?

he is the same person who convinced the APA board to remove Homosexuality from the list of mental illnesses, paving the way for the modern sexual revolution to take place.

Well, technically, the sexual revolution occurred in the 60s.  The gradual acceptance of homosexuality was a side effect of that, and not the cause.  There is no evidence that homosexuality is a mental disorder anyway--why would you expect any mainstream organization of any kind to think that?

First the obvious one-- do you believe that one can relieve stress from sexual pressure by committing a sexual act? I think it would have absolutely the opposite effect. If one is having sexual pressure, the worst thing for the person to do is to do anything sexual.

Look, this is kind of hard to take seriously, but yes, of course you can relieve sexual stress by masturbating.  What you're advocating here is that someone experiencing stress of a sexual nature should simply focus their mind on other things--this, in fact, will only accentuate the problem.

Let's take anger and depression-- we all know that anger and depression lead to many horrible crimes. Do you think that mixing this with sex will solve the issue? This only transfers the anger and depression to a sexual form, and in doing so, harbors a sexual addiction.

There is absolutely no evidence for any of this-- none.  People who are depressed or "angry" are not more prone to sexual addiction than other people.  I think you have a severe misunderstanding of what depression is.  But that aside, if someone is upset, and they can relieve stress through an entirely positive act-- which is entirely safe, as well as solitary, so it poses no risk to anyone else-- why would you come to the conclusion that masturbation will instead cause someone to become a sex addict?

One can trace who has pedophiliac or sexual addictive tendencies to this—using masturbation to relieve stress from anger, rejection, depression, etc.

I'm curious, how exactly do you think that pedophiles come about?  Now, to be frank, I would prefer that a pedophile sits in his home and masturbates instead of going out and raping children.  That is a form of self control.  If he is certain about his preference, but knows that it is immoral to act on these preferences, he can simply relieve his sexual frustration through masturbation.  There are probably many people like this, but it's a rather taboo subject.  Either way, masturbation does not cause someone to become a pedophile, or a sex addict for that matter.

This rampant promiscuity around the country is encouraging children to be sexual active at very young ages. (I look around at middle schools—once a time of innocence—and I see 6th grade boys inappropriately touching their girlfriends.) It is this promiscuity that is leading to so many problems in our society.

I don't see how children being sexually promiscuous with each other increases the number of actual pedophiles--making such a claim would suggest that every person has an innate ability to find children attractive.

Already, the APA is paving the path to a future condoning of pedophilia, in saying that child abuse is only temporarily hurtful to the child,

Look, that's not trying to make pedophilia acceptable, it's telling victims of child abuse that they can still lead normal lives.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

While I can't believe I'm actually going to make a sensible statement in here....

What seems to be made abundantly clear is that repressing sexual desire is one of the key trigger factors to serious psycho-sexual dysfunctions.

[Person Man]

This guy is a religious nut, isn't it?

[Brambila]

Perhaps I've taken a wrong approach in explaining this, so please allow me to begin anew.

My understanding of sex is thus: to (1) to be open to life (reproduce) and (2) to unite together a man and a woman in love, with the offspring of the love being manifested in the child. Masturbation does neither of these two things, as it is completely self-centered. Therefore, it is immoral.

Of course, none of you probably believe in any consistent form of morality, so I suppose that this is useful to you, and ultimately my argument stems from whether or not there is natural moral law.

[Speed of Sound]

Of course, none of you probably believe in any consistent form of morality, so I suppose that this is useful to you, and ultimately my argument stems from whether or not there is natural moral law.

Youre wrong. We have a different sense of what is or is not moral. Do not confuse a different set of morals from being moralless. I believe it is best for the mind and spirit to explore the sexual world and human sexuality, so it is perfectly within my moral boundaries.

[Alcon]

Perhaps I've taken a wrong approach in explaining this, so please allow me to begin anew.

My understanding of sex is thus: to (1) to be open to life (reproduce) and (2) to unite together a man and a woman in love, with the offspring of the love being manifested in the child. Masturbation does neither of these two things, as it is completely self-centered. Therefore, it is immoral.

Of course, none of you probably believe in any consistent form of morality, so I suppose that this is useful to you, and ultimately my argument stems from whether or not there is natural moral law.

If you are going to get all angsty and existential on us, aren't most human acts inherently self-centered?  Besides, if it harms no one else in its self-centeredness, why does that make it immoral?  Just because our standards for morality are different does not mean they aren't consistent.

[Gabu]

Masturbation does neither of these two things, as it is completely self-centered. Therefore, it is immoral.

What human act isn't self-centered?  Anything you do, you do because you think it will make you feel good, or at least will make you feel better than the alternatives you have.  Even the most altruistic acts are done because kind acts to others makes the doer feel good.  Given that masturbation hurts no one and has been medically shown to have numerous benefits (such as stress relief, decreased risk of prostate cancer, etc.), it seems to me that there are a rather lot of worse things that one could do.

[Ebowed]

My understanding of sex is thus: to (1) to be open to life (reproduce) and (2) to unite together a man and a woman in love, with the offspring of the love being manifested in the child. Masturbation does neither of these two things, as it is completely self-centered. Therefore, it is immoral.

I suppose an elderly couple which never had children engaging in sex would be immoral as well.

Of course, none of you probably believe in any consistent form of morality

Wrong.

[Brambila]

Okay-- what is your consistent form of morality?

Concerning the entire "self-centered" issue, I don't think it is right for anyone to be entirely self-centered. There is certainly a level that seems self-centered-- trying to make yourself succeed in life, come closer to God, ultimately go to heaven, etc. But this shouldn't be through self-centeredness, but complete selflessness, and abandonement to the will of God.

I know-- I'm sparking an entire whirlwind of discussion. Mea culpa.

[Speed of Sound]

You realize you can be be moral without being theistic, right? If you're not on that page, then theres no reason to continue this conversation.

[Brambila]

You realize you can be be moral without being theistic, right? If you're not on that page, then theres no reason to continue this conversation.

I believe somebody could be moral and atheist/agnostic, yes.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

You realize you can be be moral without being theistic, right? If you're not on that page, then theres no reason to continue this conversation.

I believe somebody could be moral and atheist/agnostic, yes.

Then why do you condemn atheists/agnostics?