What if John Kerry was Al Gore's Running Mate in 2000?

[Bo]

Gore wins 296-242.

[Bo]

Kerry does better than Lieberman in the debate, and the home-state effect, combined, are enough to put N.H. in the Democratic column. Gore/Kerry wins 271-267. However, Kerry is not Jewish, so Bush wins by a much larger margin in Florida. The outcome is the opposite of RL: Bush wins the popular vote, Gore wins electoral.

Thus energizing the Republican base (and bringing many young and unintelligent voters to the GOP) leading to a close win in 2004 under the assumption that Gore cheated.

However, this would be a small consequence, as real life probably would've asserted itself anyways, with the GOP being blamed for the recession by the general public, leading to a Dem victory anyways in 08.

This would have probably been the best case scenario for the country. No Iraq War and smaller deficits (or no deficits at all) with the Republicans still receiveing the blame for the financial crisis and Great Recession.

[Bo]

Then Kerry would've gone AWOL in the senate in 2000 like he did in 2004 by missing important meetings and votes.

So? Who cares? He's running for a national office. It's almost inevitable that he will miss some minor votes in the Senate.

[Bo]

and major. I don't see Kerry and Gore agreeing on much of anything either.

Gore and Kerry would have agreed that tax cuts for the rich are bad. They would ahve also agreed that it is necessary to protect the environemnt, support international opinion, and promote affirmative action.

[Bo]

Kerry does better than Lieberman in the debate, and the home-state effect, combined, are enough to put N.H. in the Democratic column. Gore/Kerry wins 271-267. However, Kerry is not Jewish, so Bush wins by a much larger margin in Florida. The outcome is the opposite of RL: Bush wins the popular vote, Gore wins electoral.

Thus energizing the Republican base (and bringing many young and unintelligent voters to the GOP) leading to a close win in 2004 under the assumption that Gore cheated.

However, this would be a small consequence, as real life probably would've asserted itself anyways, with the GOP being blamed for the recession by the general public, leading to a Dem victory anyways in 08.

This would have probably been the best case scenario for the country. No Iraq War and smaller deficits (or no deficits at all) with the Republicans still receiveing the blame for the financial crisis and Great Recession.

The only problem that I see with this is September 11.  While Gore was in favour of preemptive strikes against Afghanistan (which may of killed off Bin Laden and put the plan on hold indefinitely) we don't know that 9/11 would've still happened (and if it did happen, would Gore attack Afghanistan and stay there this long, and would he have attacked Iraq if there really were reports from the CIA about WMDs?

With or without 9/11, I seriously doubt Gore would have invaded Iraq. He was against it in 2002 in RL and from what I've read the CIA and FBI evidence was very vague as to whether there were actually WMDs in Iraq. Bush Jr. just decided to manipulate the information and only show that which favored the case that there were WMDs in Iraq. Also, I don't think Gore would have implemented tax cuts for the rich or Medicare Part D, which, together with the lack of a war in Iraq, would have made the deficit and debt smaller (with or without 9/11). Thus, what I wrote was completely accurate, assuming Gore would ahve lost his relection bid (and I think he would have, with or without 9/11).

[Bo]

Gore would win.

I gotta wonder why he didn't pick Jeanne Shaheen though...

I think she asked not to be picked, plus he might have been worried about her inexperience. Even though I agree that picking Shaheen would have been a good move strategically. It would have energized the female vote in favor of Gore, delivered NH for Gore, and possibly ewnergized the Democratic base. Also, if Shaheen would have had a good performance in her VP debate with Cheney, I think that all questions about her inexperience would have been off the table and answered. Lieberman added nothing to Gore's campaign that Gore didn't already have. It was a huge waste picking him, and a mistake that gave us 8 years of a horrendous President.

[Bo]

Then we would've had to listen to his crazy flashbacks in 2000 as we were forced to hear in 2004.

Yeah, but people in 2000 would have respected his flaskbacks and admired him as a war hero, in contrast to 2004, when the GOP swiftboated him.

[Bo]

Then we would've had to listen to his crazy flashbacks in 2000 as we were forced to hear in 2004.

Yeah, but people in 2000 would have respected his flaskbacks and admired him as a war hero, in contrast to 2004, when the GOP swiftboated him.

Stop the spin. He flew Jane Fonda around in Vietnam and I'm not sure if that's known to the public or not but I would've paid personally for an ad that had real footage of these 2 doing such a thing. He met with the enemy without permission from us in a time of war which is TREASON. As a reward he earned himself a spot in the North Vietnamese War Museum dedicated to the northern victory in the 70's. After analyzing his behavior, Kerry was at best traumatized and unfit for command.

That's all a bunch of crap and lies. That Jane Fonda picture was fabricated. And you wonder why many people here don't like you.

[Bo]

Which claim? Look all I'm saying is that if Kerry were Gore's running mate in 2000 we would've had to listen to his crazy flashbacks 4 years earlier than we did.

True, but his flashbacks weren't crazy and were completely true. It is only the GOP's manipulation and lies about those flashbacks which were false and slanderous. Shame on the GOp for ruining Kerry's good name and service to our country. At least Kerry had the guts to actually serve in Vietnam and fight the Commies, in contrast to Bush, who was too much of a coward to fight in Vietnam so he decided to use his daddy's connections to serve in the National Guard instead. So Bush is afraid to fight in wars to protect our citizens yet is unafraid to start them, especially unnecessary ones.

[Bo]

Which claim? Look all I'm saying is that if Kerry were Gore's running mate in 2000 we would've had to listen to his crazy flashbacks 4 years earlier than we did.

True, but his flashbacks weren't crazy and were completely true. It is only the GOP's manipulation and lies about those flashbacks which were false and slanderous. Shame on the GOp for ruining Kerry's good name and service to our country. At least Kerry had the guts to actually serve in Vietnam and fight the Commies, in contrast to Bush, who was too much of a coward to fight in Vietnam so he decided to use his daddy's connections to serve in the National Guard instead. So Bush is afraid to fight in wars to protect our citizens yet is unafraid to start them, especially unnecessary ones.

Kerry committed treason by meeting with the North Vietnamese without our permission. Bush busted his ass for the Texas Air National Guard. Daddy's connections are only a figment of the left's imagination. I guess that a document being proven false doesn't matter for the left because they want it to be true. Bush defended this country as he saw necessary. The intelligence reports showed WMD and we found them.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7634313/

There were no WMDs found in Iraq. Even the U.S. govt. has repeatedly said this. Kerry did not meet with the North Vietnamese. Bush did not bust his ass in the National Guard. He jsut relaxed there like a frat boy instead of serving in Vietnam like the govt. told him to do. And you still haven't responded to Joe Republic's (Jeff Vader's) questions.

[Bo]

Which claim? Look all I'm saying is that if Kerry were Gore's running mate in 2000 we would've had to listen to his crazy flashbacks 4 years earlier than we did.

True, but his flashbacks weren't crazy and were completely true. It is only the GOP's manipulation and lies about those flashbacks which were false and slanderous. Shame on the GOp for ruining Kerry's good name and service to our country. At least Kerry had the guts to actually serve in Vietnam and fight the Commies, in contrast to Bush, who was too much of a coward to fight in Vietnam so he decided to use his daddy's connections to serve in the National Guard instead. So Bush is afraid to fight in wars to protect our citizens yet is unafraid to start them, especially unnecessary ones.

Kerry committed treason by meeting with the North Vietnamese without our permission. Bush busted his ass for the Texas Air National Guard. Daddy's connections are only a figment of the left's imagination. I guess that a document being proven false doesn't matter for the left because they want it to be true. Bush defended this country as he saw necessary. The intelligence reports showed WMD and we found them.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7634313/

There were no WMDs found in Iraq. Even the U.S. govt. has repeatedly said this. Kerry did not meet with the North Vietnamese. Bush did not bust his ass in the National Guard. He jsut relaxed there like a frat boy instead of serving in Vietnam like the govt. told him to do. And you still haven't responded to Joe Republic's (Jeff Vader's) questions.

You view a situation the way it didn't happen. In fact you probably cut and pasted your words from a left wing propaganda website. WMD's were found in Iraq but the left wants to pretend they weren't found. In 2004 America made the decision to tell Kerry to keep his flashbacks to himself and the same message would've been sent in 2000 at Al Gore's expense.

You're the one who views the situation as it didn't happen. And you still haven't responded to Joe's questions.

[Bo]

Which claim? Look all I'm saying is that if Kerry were Gore's running mate in 2000 we would've had to listen to his crazy flashbacks 4 years earlier than we did.

True, but his flashbacks weren't crazy and were completely true. It is only the GOP's manipulation and lies about those flashbacks which were false and slanderous. Shame on the GOp for ruining Kerry's good name and service to our country. At least Kerry had the guts to actually serve in Vietnam and fight the Commies, in contrast to Bush, who was too much of a coward to fight in Vietnam so he decided to use his daddy's connections to serve in the National Guard instead. So Bush is afraid to fight in wars to protect our citizens yet is unafraid to start them, especially unnecessary ones.

Kerry committed treason by meeting with the North Vietnamese without our permission. Bush busted his ass for the Texas Air National Guard. Daddy's connections are only a figment of the left's imagination. I guess that a document being proven false doesn't matter for the left because they want it to be true. Bush defended this country as he saw necessary. The intelligence reports showed WMD and we found them.

Bush was a draft dodger, he didnt even go to drill, and yes his daddy got him in the guar because at that time it took an act of congress to join the guard of the reserves. You live in a fantasy land. And there were never any weapons, and no we never found any. In Febuary 2003 Saddam met with senior military leaders and informed them there were no weapons, and they were stunned because they were counting on them to fight the Allies.

Clinton was a draft dodger and he hardly denies it. Bush served during Vietnam but was not a Vietnam Veteran. What do you think of Blumenthal? Never mind that's off topic. Bush served while Kerry committed war crimes. I do know however that Saddam Hussein and Donald Rumsfeld played poker together as late as September of 2003. Rumsfeld resigned right before it would've been investigated that he was getting carbon credits from Palestine.

Both Bush and Clinton were draft dodgers. Kerry didn't commit treason. And how can Bush serve in Vietnam without being a Vietnam War veteran?.....Oh wait, Bush didn't serve in Vietnam. How can Saddam Hussein and Rumsfeld play poker after the U.S. invaded Iraq and Saddam was in hiding? Rumself getting carbon credits from Palestine? What the heck? And Joe is Joe Republic, a.k.a. Jeff Vader, to whose question you never responded.

[Bo]

there were good reasons for Gore to select moderate hero Joe Lieberman for his running mate. an attempt to turn further to the left after 8 years of Clinton would not have fared well.

301 - 237
this result is plausible even if Bush just barely wins a popular plurality

I think Kerry would have helped Gore with Nader voters and energizing the base. I also see Kerry helping Gore with moderates due to his war hero status. I really don't see what Lieberman added to the ticket, considering that Gore himself was a centrist.

[Bo]

there were good reasons for Gore to select moderate hero Joe Lieberman for his running mate. an attempt to turn further to the left after 8 years of Clinton would not have fared well.

301 - 237
this result is plausible even if Bush just barely wins a popular plurality

I think Kerry would have helped Gore with Nader voters and energizing the base. I also see Kerry helping Gore with moderates due to his war hero status. I really don't see what Lieberman added to the ticket, considering that Gore himself was a centrist.

Lieberman added Jews in Florida.

No, he didn't. Gore essentially got the same % of the Jewish vote that Clinton got in 1992 and 1996.

[Bo]

there were good reasons for Gore to select moderate hero Joe Lieberman for his running mate. an attempt to turn further to the left after 8 years of Clinton would not have fared well.

301 - 237
this result is plausible even if Bush just barely wins a popular plurality

I think Kerry would have helped Gore with Nader voters and energizing the base. I also see Kerry helping Gore with moderates due to his war hero status. I really don't see what Lieberman added to the ticket, considering that Gore himself was a centrist.

Lieberman added Jews in Florida.

No, he didn't. Gore essentially got the same % of the Jewish vote that Clinton got in 1992 and 1996.

Yes, he did. It was an accomplishment for Gore to increase his share of the Jewish vote by 1% considering the country as a whole shifted 8 points toward the GOP.

Gore got almost the same PV % in 2000 as Clinton did in 1996. Also, Kerry won nearly as much of the Jewish % four years later despite the fact that the country shifted to the right and that Kerry did not have a Jew on his ticket.

[Bo]

Which claim? Look all I'm saying is that if Kerry were Gore's running mate in 2000 we would've had to listen to his crazy flashbacks 4 years earlier than we did.

True, but his flashbacks weren't crazy and were completely true. It is only the GOP's manipulation and lies about those flashbacks which were false and slanderous. Shame on the GOp for ruining Kerry's good name and service to our country. At least Kerry had the guts to actually serve in Vietnam and fight the Commies, in contrast to Bush, who was too much of a coward to fight in Vietnam so he decided to use his daddy's connections to serve in the National Guard instead. So Bush is afraid to fight in wars to protect our citizens yet is unafraid to start them, especially unnecessary ones.

Kerry committed treason by meeting with the North Vietnamese without our permission. Bush busted his ass for the Texas Air National Guard. Daddy's connections are only a figment of the left's imagination. I guess that a document being proven false doesn't matter for the left because they want it to be true. Bush defended this country as he saw necessary. The intelligence reports showed WMD and we found them.

Bush was a draft dodger, he didnt even go to drill, and yes his daddy got him in the guar because at that time it took an act of congress to join the guard of the reserves. You live in a fantasy land. And there were never any weapons, and no we never found any. In Febuary 2003 Saddam met with senior military leaders and informed them there were no weapons, and they were stunned because they were counting on them to fight the Allies.

Clinton was a draft dodger and he hardly denies it. Bush served during Vietnam but was not a Vietnam Veteran. What do you think of Blumenthal? Never mind that's off topic. Bush served while Kerry committed war crimes. I do know however that Saddam Hussein and Donald Rumsfeld played poker together as late as September of 2003. Rumsfeld resigned right before it would've been investigated that he was getting carbon credits from Palestine.

Both Bush and Clinton were draft dodgers. Kerry didn't commit treason. And how can Bush serve in Vietnam without being a Vietnam War veteran?.....Oh wait, Bush didn't serve in Vietnam. How can Saddam Hussein and Rumsfeld play poker after the U.S. invaded Iraq and Saddam was in hiding? Rumself getting carbon credits from Palestine? What the heck? And Joe is Joe Republic, a.k.a. Jeff Vader, to whose question you never responded.

Well what was his question? And yes there have been stories at high levels of government that Rumsfeld secretly met with Saddam 6 months after the invasion of Iraq. I never said Bush was a Vietnam Veteran. I said that he served during Vietnam meaning as a part time naval pilot in the Texas Air National Guard. As far as I'm concerned, Bush's service in the Texas Air National Guard doesn't qualify him as a Vietnam Veteran but does not make him a draft dodger. We are forever indebted for his service. Kerry was only a hero to the North Vietnamese as his behavior motivated them to kill our men and spread communism.

This was Joe's (Jeff Vader's question), which you never responded to:

Do you have proof for that claim, Derek?  It must be said that your other assertions in the past have been... well... baloney.

He flew Jane Fonda around in Vietnam...

... he earned himself a spot in the North Vietnamese War Museum dedicated to the northern victory in the 70's.

BTW, you watching Fox News and then spreading all these lies about Kerry is a large reason why people on this Forum don't take you seriously. Just saying.

[Bo]

Which claim? Look all I'm saying is that if Kerry were Gore's running mate in 2000 we would've had to listen to his crazy flashbacks 4 years earlier than we did.

True, but his flashbacks weren't crazy and were completely true. It is only the GOP's manipulation and lies about those flashbacks which were false and slanderous. Shame on the GOp for ruining Kerry's good name and service to our country. At least Kerry had the guts to actually serve in Vietnam and fight the Commies, in contrast to Bush, who was too much of a coward to fight in Vietnam so he decided to use his daddy's connections to serve in the National Guard instead. So Bush is afraid to fight in wars to protect our citizens yet is unafraid to start them, especially unnecessary ones.

Kerry committed treason by meeting with the North Vietnamese without our permission. Bush busted his ass for the Texas Air National Guard. Daddy's connections are only a figment of the left's imagination. I guess that a document being proven false doesn't matter for the left because they want it to be true. Bush defended this country as he saw necessary. The intelligence reports showed WMD and we found them.

Bush was a draft dodger, he didnt even go to drill, and yes his daddy got him in the guar because at that time it took an act of congress to join the guard of the reserves. You live in a fantasy land. And there were never any weapons, and no we never found any. In Febuary 2003 Saddam met with senior military leaders and informed them there were no weapons, and they were stunned because they were counting on them to fight the Allies.

Clinton was a draft dodger and he hardly denies it. Bush served during Vietnam but was not a Vietnam Veteran. What do you think of Blumenthal? Never mind that's off topic. Bush served while Kerry committed war crimes. I do know however that Saddam Hussein and Donald Rumsfeld played poker together as late as September of 2003. Rumsfeld resigned right before it would've been investigated that he was getting carbon credits from Palestine.

Both Bush and Clinton were draft dodgers. Kerry didn't commit treason. And how can Bush serve in Vietnam without being a Vietnam War veteran?.....Oh wait, Bush didn't serve in Vietnam. How can Saddam Hussein and Rumsfeld play poker after the U.S. invaded Iraq and Saddam was in hiding? Rumself getting carbon credits from Palestine? What the heck? And Joe is Joe Republic, a.k.a. Jeff Vader, to whose question you never responded.

Well what was his question? And yes there have been stories at high levels of government that Rumsfeld secretly met with Saddam 6 months after the invasion of Iraq. I never said Bush was a Vietnam Veteran. I said that he served during Vietnam meaning as a part time naval pilot in the Texas Air National Guard. As far as I'm concerned, Bush's service in the Texas Air National Guard doesn't qualify him as a Vietnam Veteran but does not make him a draft dodger. We are forever indebted for his service. Kerry was only a hero to the North Vietnamese as his behavior motivated them to kill our men and spread communism.

This was Joe's (Jeff Vader's question), which you never responded to:

Do you have proof for that claim, Derek?  It must be said that your other assertions in the past have been... well... baloney.

He flew Jane Fonda around in Vietnam...

... he earned himself a spot in the North Vietnamese War Museum dedicated to the northern victory in the 70's.

BTW, you watching Fox News and then spreading all these lies about Kerry is a large reason why people on this Forum don't take you seriously. Just saying.

I've talked to the higher ups in the government and no I don't have proof that I talked to them. Whatever happened to trust? I guess that's part of what's been changed in America since last year.

You still didn't answer Joe's question. Stop rambling nonsense.

[Bo]

Haven't you seen the pictures of them together?

Those pictures were fake.

[Bo]

Haven't you seen the pictures of them together?

Those pictures were fake.

Not as fake as the documents that Dan Rather blurted out on CBS referring to Bush going AWOL. That paper was typed in microsoft which wasn't out until 1975, but they were dated 1972. I'll agree that the pictures were fake if you admit to me RIGHT NOW that the documents falsely accusing Bush of going AWOL were fake and that there is NO PROOF that Bush missed any assignments or meetings in the national guard.

I agree that Dan Rather's documents were forgeries. However, the photos of Kerry with Jane Fonda were forgeries as well.