Ireland General Discussion

[CumbrianLefty]

I'm not particularly religious but can see perfectly well the context in which he used that term.

Looks rather like some people looking for a reason for getting upset to me.

[ObserverIE]

I'm not particularly religious but can see perfectly well the context in which he used that term.

Looks rather like some people looking for a reason for getting upset to me.

I wouldn't have viewed Leo as being especially religious either, which is why, although there's an indirect allusion to Luke 15, it's far more likely to have come from the scriptwriters/special advisors rather than the man himself.

Although someone has pointed out a parallel with a speech from the West Wing:

https://twitter.com/bencooper/status/1728740230537359661

and Varadkar does have form on this kind of stuff.

Throwing in a New Testament reference does strike me as being rather pointless, though. There is a, possibly aprocryphal, story from the mid-50s when Liam Cosgrave was foreign minister and called at the UN for Israel and the Arabs to "settle their differences in a Christian manner". When Irish diplomats pointed out to him that this was unlikely to be very well received in the Middle East, his answer was that "it will be very well received in Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown."

The current Israeli government was always going to seize on something like this to pick a fight with one of the more critical Western European countries, and given that it threw a strop with the Spanish and Belgian governments earlier this week, this sort of Wolf Warrior diplomacy is not a first even for this month.

[RilakkuMAGA]

I'm not particularly religious but can see perfectly well the context in which he used that term.

Looks rather like some people looking for a reason for getting upset to me.

The last few months have seen centrists and RWers seize control of the heavyweight title championship in "most easily offended fragile cancel culture feelings don't care about the facts" from woke lefties.

[CumbrianLefty]

A sizeable amount of right wing critiques of "the left" are projection.

[Flyersfan232]

Leo Varadkar has been elected as the new Taoiseach, following the 2020 FG-FF agreement. Micheál Martin is now the Tánaiste.

https://twitter.com/PresidentIRL/status/1604116515564945408

How tall is Higgins? He looks like a hobbit.

5’4 according to Google.

Huh, so it's Varadkar who's quite tall, then.

Anyway, I don't like Varadkar but after the tragic farce of the last four years of Israeli politics it's kind of refreshing to see one of these rotation agreements actually pan out for once.

romania

[Flyersfan232]

Knew what it was going to be about when I saw this thread bumped.

Absolutely shocking scenes, unprecedented in modern times in the south at least I would say.
The attack itself on the children was horrific, again some not something we usually see in Ireland. Seems however to be an isolated attack (not much info released on the perpetrator other than he's foreign-born, but has been living here for more than 20 years and is an Irish citizen, and has a history of mental health issues). The irony is that while the far-right have used this to bash immigrants, it was an immigrant (a Brazilian deliveroo driver) that intervened in the attack

Sadly though that didn't matter to these numbskulls who used it as an excuse to 'protest' and then to cause carnage. The 'patriots' bravely showed their opposition to violence by looting Footlocker.

What’s the far-right in the republic? I don’t recall any populist party in Parliament, and neither FG or FF have any far-right elements

It's very small and disorganised but definitely growing at the moment. . Depends on what you call far-right. As Logical said there's no far-right parties, but there's independents with anti-immigration views. Wouldn't really call them far-right tbh, they're more just saying what they can to get votes tbh.
 
In terms of self-professed far-right people - in the last election, even the most high-profile candidates didn't get anymore than 1-2% in their constituencies. The most successful 'far-right' candidate in recent times was perhaps businessman Peter Casey in the 2018 presidential election with his anti-traveller (Irish gypsy's basically) rhetoric, coming 2nd with 23% of the vote (still way short of Higgins on 55%).

They're kind of seen as a joke in Ireland tbh because they go around things in such a terrible way. Gemma O'Doherty (who was once a well-known reputable journalist before giving the deep end after her husband's death) for instance complained about there being too many black children in a class picture of a rural school. She turned up at the school playground to livestream, only to be confronted by one of their parents. Her and John Waters (infamous newspaper columnist who had a child with Sinead O'Connor who grew to hate him passionately) made a right show of themselves during COVID with their anti-lockdown and anti-vax 'protests'.

Fine Gael are often nicknamed the 'Blueshirts' because the party was founded by the amalgamation of the fascist Blueshirt movement and the Cumann na nGaedheal party in the 30s, but today neither they or FF have any far-right elements in them. The most high-profile far right party at the moment is The National Party but they are a complete joke, who were most recently in the news when some gold-bars they held went missing causing an internal struggle in the party. Without any real party to support, the far-right isn't really taking off in Ireland like it is elsewhere in Europe, but Casey in 2018 showed that with the right candidate, they might.

they are at least 9 tds with out a party you could considered being from that wing of politics  ten if u count Aontú

[Flyersfan232]

Knew what it was going to be about when I saw this thread bumped.

Absolutely shocking scenes, unprecedented in modern times in the south at least I would say.
The attack itself on the children was horrific, again some not something we usually see in Ireland. Seems however to be an isolated attack (not much info released on the perpetrator other than he's foreign-born, but has been living here for more than 20 years and is an Irish citizen, and has a history of mental health issues). The irony is that while the far-right have used this to bash immigrants, it was an immigrant (a Brazilian deliveroo driver) that intervened in the attack

Sadly though that didn't matter to these numbskulls who used it as an excuse to 'protest' and then to cause carnage. The 'patriots' bravely showed their opposition to violence by looting Footlocker.

What’s the far-right in the republic? I don’t recall any populist party in Parliament, and neither FG or FF have any far-right elements

9 tds with views simliar to right wing populist ((I wouldnt considered them far right and I think right wing populist is a better term for them)) and Aontú if u want to count that

[Flyersfan232]

Knew what it was going to be about when I saw this thread bumped.

Absolutely shocking scenes, unprecedented in modern times in the south at least I would say.
The attack itself on the children was horrific, again some not something we usually see in Ireland. Seems however to be an isolated attack (not much info released on the perpetrator other than he's foreign-born, but has been living here for more than 20 years and is an Irish citizen, and has a history of mental health issues). The irony is that while the far-right have used this to bash immigrants, it was an immigrant (a Brazilian deliveroo driver) that intervened in the attack

Sadly though that didn't matter to these numbskulls who used it as an excuse to 'protest' and then to cause carnage. The 'patriots' bravely showed their opposition to violence by looting Footlocker.

What’s the far-right in the republic? I don’t recall any populist party in Parliament, and neither FG or FF have any far-right elements

One of the aforementioned anti-immigration Independent TDs, Michael Collins (no relation) recently formed a new party, Independent Ireland, and there are parallel discussions among some of the rural TDs about forming a ‘farmers party’, although there’s nothing concrete there yet. If either were to be successful I imagine that both would fill the right-wing populist niche amongst Irish political parties.

On the other hand, I’d imagine that if they voted at all, a lot of the rioters in question would probably vote for Sinn Féin, whose support base, at least partially, is in fact quite reflective of the demographics that typically tend to vote for right-wing populist parties in other countries.

so bbb but irish edition should get in contact with conor mcgreger

[Flyersfan232]

Knew what it was going to be about when I saw this thread bumped.

Absolutely shocking scenes, unprecedented in modern times in the south at least I would say.
The attack itself on the children was horrific, again some not something we usually see in Ireland. Seems however to be an isolated attack (not much info released on the perpetrator other than he's foreign-born, but has been living here for more than 20 years and is an Irish citizen, and has a history of mental health issues). The irony is that while the far-right have used this to bash immigrants, it was an immigrant (a Brazilian deliveroo driver) that intervened in the attack

Sadly though that didn't matter to these numbskulls who used it as an excuse to 'protest' and then to cause carnage. The 'patriots' bravely showed their opposition to violence by looting Footlocker.

What’s the far-right in the republic? I don’t recall any populist party in Parliament, and neither FG or FF have any far-right elements

One of the aforementioned anti-immigration Independent TDs, Michael Collins (no relation) recently formed a new party, Independent Ireland, and there are parallel discussions among some of the rural TDs about forming a ‘farmers party’, although there’s nothing concrete there yet. If either were to be successful I imagine that both would fill the right-wing populist niche amongst Irish political parties.

On the other hand, I’d imagine that if they voted at all, a lot of the rioters in question would probably vote for Sinn Féin, whose support base, at least partially, is in fact quite reflective of the demographics that typically tend to vote for right-wing populist parties in other countries.

how much trouble would sinn fein have once though type of voters country wide realize that sinn fein clearly dont agree at all with them?

[Flyersfan232]

Some happy news after a difficult week, Irish-Israeli Emily Hand has been released by Hamas after 50 days of captivity.

Leo's tweet however on the matter has caused controversy. His biblical reference has earned him some blowback https://twitter.com/LeoVaradkar/status/1728535065242612184

is ireland so anti israel that varadkar couldnt even say they were kidnapped?

[PSOL]

Is organized crime really such a big deal in Ireland? Do they really control the boxing industry?

[MayorCarcetti]

Is organized crime really such a big deal in Ireland? Do they really control the boxing industry?

Gangsters in Ireland get a lot of headlines and infamy probably beyond their influence due to the press. Certain journalists have made careers out of bring them into the public spotlight, the most famous being Veronica Guerin in the 90s. Guerin ultimately paid the price when one of the most famous of these gangsters, John Gilligan had her killed in 1996 (Cate Blanchett later starred in a movie about her life and death), and her death led to a major crackdown on organised crime in Ireland and the formation of the Criminal Assets Bureau which seizes assets of those involved in gangland crime.

North and inner city Dublin has long suffered a problem with drugs thanks to these gangs. Began with Larry Dunne in the 80s who effectively brought heroin into Ireland before be sent to jail, famously uttering the line 'if you think we're bad, you should see what's coming after us' as he was sent down. Martin Cahill, better known as 'The General' was a household name in the 90s, like an Irish Gotti, before being shot by the IRA in 1994. Limerick had a bad gang war in the noughties between the Keane and Dundon families, during which the city was dubbed Stab City, and several innocent people were caught up in the middle of it and killed.

These days the dominant families in Dublin are the Kinahans and the Hutch's and have had a bloody feud since 2013 that's led to several high-profile murders. Christy Kinahan's son Daniel Kinahan is heavily involved in boxing, running his own company MTK Global which includes Tyson Fury and many well-known Irish boxers as clients. His influence has, unsurprisingly, caused much controversy and he operates out of Dubai for fear of arrest in Ireland. In 2016, there was a shooting at a weigh-in at for a boxing match at Dublin's Regency Hotel in which a Kinahan associate was killed, but it was widely believed that Daniel Kinahan was the intended target. The hit was believed to in revenge for the Kinahan's murder of Gary Hutch, nephew of the Hutch family leader, Gerry 'the Monk' Hutch (he's called the Monk because he doesn't smoke, drink or take drugs). This led to an escalation in subsequent years. A member of the Hutch family went on trial for the the murder but it collapsed after the lead detective's suicide. In 2020, Gerry Hutch himself was arrested in Spain for the Regency Shooting and extradited back to Ireland, and a former Sinn Fein councillor with links to the Hutch's, Jonathan Dowdall testified in the trial in 2022. The trial was a shambles, with Dowdall proving to be an unreliable witness, and Hutch was acquitted.

[MayorCarcetti]

Former Taoiseach John Bruton has died at the age of 76 after a long illness.

Served as Taoiseach between December 1994 and June 1997 as head of the 'Rainbow Coalition' made up of Fine Gael, Labour and the Democratic Left, he played an important role in the peace process negotiations. From 2004 to 2009, he served as the EU ambassador to the United States.

[ObserverIE]

Former Taoiseach John Bruton has died at the age of 76 after a long illness.

Served as Taoiseach between December 1994 and June 1997 as head of the 'Rainbow Coalition' made up of Fine Gael, Labour and the Democratic Left, he played an important role in the peace process negotiations. From 2004 to 2009, he served as the EU ambassador to the United States.

I think this comes under the category of "unwitting euphemism".

[CumbrianLefty]

Quite possibly the most pro-British PM the RoI has ever had.

[ObserverIE]

Quite possibly the most pro-British PM the RoI has ever had.

Very few countries (other than I suppose Belgium) have elected - although admittedly accidentally in Bruton's case - someone who believed that it would have been better for the state of which he was leader not to have existed as an independent entity.

[LabourJersey]

Quite possibly the most pro-British PM the RoI has ever had.

Very few countries (other than I suppose Belgium) have elected - although admittedly accidentally in Bruton's case - someone who believed that it would have been better for the state of which he was leader not to have existed as an independent entity.

Care to elaborate? Am aware of his infamous fawning over of Charles when he visited the ROI, but was Bruton that consistently pro-UK (and was he punished for that politically?)

[MayorCarcetti]

Quite possibly the most pro-British PM the RoI has ever had.

Very few countries (other than I suppose Belgium) have elected - although admittedly accidentally in Bruton's case - someone who believed that it would have been better for the state of which he was leader not to have existed as an independent entity.

Care to elaborate? Am aware of his infamous fawning over of Charles when he visited the ROI, but was Bruton that consistently pro-UK (and was he punished for that politically?)

Bruton's political hero was John Redmond, leader of the Irish Parliamentary Party between 1900 and 1918, who led the Home Rule movement before the Easter Rising and republicanism superseded it. He effectively said The Rising was a mistake and that staying the course with Home Rule would have been more effective, a view widely ridiculed among Irish historians and even those within his party tried to distance themselves from.

He had a stronger dislike for political violence than most in Irish politics (and his own party even) which was clear in his dealings with Sinn Fein during the peace process and was undoubtedly one of the most sympathetic Taoisigh towards unionism - hence Albert Reynolds calling him 'John Unionist'. His fawning over Prince Charles was even ridiculed in the British press and helped embellish this reputation. One of the last times he made the headlines before his death was in 2021 when he condemned Michael D. Higgins for turning down an invite to a commerative event marking the 100th anniversary of partition and the foundation of Northern Ireland even suggesting it was unconstitutional.

[Joe Republic]

Leo Varadkar has been elected as the new Taoiseach, following the 2020 FG-FF agreement. Micheál Martin is now the Tánaiste.

https://twitter.com/PresidentIRL/status/1604116515564945408

How tall is Higgins? He looks like a hobbit.

It's extremely disrespectful to use pejorative language like that to describe the President of Ireland.  Higgins is deeply proud of his leprechaun heritage.

[AustralianSwingVoter]

https://twitter.com/culladgh/status/1764450387837210929

I see Varadkar hasn't changed his approach...

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

https://twitter.com/culladgh/status/1764450387837210929

I see Varadkar hasn't changed his approach...

Yeah, I had just come to this thread to say that I haven't really been following this particular referendum campaign but I had heard that the proposed text was, uh, lackluster from a left-rather-than-liberal perspective.

[MayorCarcetti]

https://twitter.com/culladgh/status/1764450387837210929
I see Varadkar hasn't changed his approach...

Yeah, I had just come to this thread to say that I haven't really been following this particular referendum campaign but I had heard that the proposed text was, uh, lackluster from a left-rather-than-liberal perspective.

Amazes me how much they've messed up during this referendum. Seemed once it was just a formality to pass both of these, but through their vagueness and Leo's words this weeks, feels like they might just be about to snatch defeat from the jaws of defeat (the care one absolutely seems like it's in danger)

EDIT: Defeat from the jaws of victory, just noticed my typo there!

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

https://twitter.com/culladgh/status/1764450387837210929
I see Varadkar hasn't changed his approach...

Yeah, I had just come to this thread to say that I haven't really been following this particular referendum campaign but I had heard that the proposed text was, uh, lackluster from a left-rather-than-liberal perspective.

Amazes me how much they've messed up during this referendum. Seemed once it was just a formality to pass both of these, but through their vagueness and Leo's words this weeks, feels like they might just be about to snatch defeat from the jaws of defeat (the care one absolutely seems like it's in danger)

You'd think just striking John Charles McQuaid's hot takes on "woman" without this whole new paragraph of neoliberal mush (that manages to still be creepily familialist at the same time!) would have been an incredibly easy layup, especially for the sorts of identity-affirmation purposes for which Irish governments have started using these referenda.

[YL]

Looking at the RTE live blog suggestions seem to be that in rural areas No is winning both referendums and it's close in Dún Laoghaire, though it's not clear whether the latter applies to both. The implications for the overall outcome are fairly obvious.

[AustralianSwingVoter]

https://twitter.com/MarcODriscoll_/status/1766409789779702191