FOX cost Gore the election
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 29, 2024, 10:26:38 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion
  U.S. Presidential Election Results
  2000 U.S. Presidential Election Results (Moderator: Dereich)
  FOX cost Gore the election
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2
Author Topic: FOX cost Gore the election  (Read 12915 times)
Akno21
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,066
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: July 26, 2004, 06:56:27 AM »

I was watching "Outfoxed" and some guy said something completely true, IMHO. He said that FOX's and then the other networks decisions to call Florida for Bush at 2 AM even though you really couldn't tell from the data, led to a perception throughout the legal battle that Bush was the current winner and Gore was trying to knock him off. That perception may have hurt Gore more than any legal mistake or something of the sort.
Logged
ATFFL
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,754
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2004, 09:34:44 AM »

I was watching "Outfoxed" and some guy said something completely true, IMHO. He said that FOX's and then the other networks decisions to call Florida for Bush at 2 AM even though you really couldn't tell from the data, led to a perception throughout the legal battle that Bush was the current winner and Gore was trying to knock him off. That perception may have hurt Gore more than any legal mistake or something of the sort.

The fact that Bush had more votes had absolutely nothing to do with it.

I suggest the democrats move on, its over.
Logged
Jake
dubya2004
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 18,621
Cuba


Political Matrix
E: -0.90, S: -0.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2004, 09:55:42 AM »

Really, just let it go. George Bush was elected president. Al Gore wasn't.  I'm not to sure Outfoxed is the most credible source of info, beings that it was put out w/ Moveon.orgs help.
Logged
minionofmidas
Lewis Trondheim
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,207
India


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2004, 10:03:37 AM »

I was watching "Outfoxed" and some guy said something completely true, IMHO. He said that FOX's and then the other networks decisions to call Florida for Bush at 2 AM even though you really couldn't tell from the data, led to a perception throughout the legal battle that Bush was the current winner and Gore was trying to knock him off. That perception may have hurt Gore more than any legal mistake or something of the sort.

The fact that Bush had more votes had absolutely nothing to do with it.
Absolutely nothing, indeed. Also, notice that the guy who made that decision was a close relative of Bush's.

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
That's obviously true. It's definitely way too late to change anything about it.
Logged
Keystone Phil
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 52,611


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2004, 10:06:34 AM »

To my Democratic fans, do AMERICA a favor and accept that, nearly 4 years later, you lost the 2000 Presidential election. And its more than Florida, it's Tennessee. If you guys could only win Gore's HOME STATE. The state that elected him Senator and went for Clinton twice. All you had to do was win there and even if Bush got Florida, Tennessee would have been enough for Gore to win. But guess what? Neither Tennessee nor Florida wanted Gore. You lost. It's done.
Logged
ATFFL
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,754
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2004, 10:06:45 AM »

I was watching "Outfoxed" and some guy said something completely true, IMHO. He said that FOX's and then the other networks decisions to call Florida for Bush at 2 AM even though you really couldn't tell from the data, led to a perception throughout the legal battle that Bush was the current winner and Gore was trying to knock him off. That perception may have hurt Gore more than any legal mistake or something of the sort.

The fact that Bush had more votes had absolutely nothing to do with it.
Absolutely nothing, indeed. Also, notice that the guy who made that decision was a close relative of Bush's.


One guy?  The vote was counted by hundreds if not thousands of people all across the state.  All of them sent their totals to Kathryn Harris, who added them up and certified them then passed the results on to the legislature and JEB.
Logged
minionofmidas
Lewis Trondheim
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,207
India


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2004, 10:10:51 AM »

I was watching "Outfoxed" and some guy said something completely true, IMHO. He said that FOX's and then the other networks decisions to call Florida for Bush at 2 AM even though you really couldn't tell from the data, led to a perception throughout the legal battle that Bush was the current winner and Gore was trying to knock him off. That perception may have hurt Gore more than any legal mistake or something of the sort.

The fact that Bush had more votes had absolutely nothing to do with it.
Absolutely nothing, indeed. Also, notice that the guy who made that decision was a close relative of Bush's.


One guy?  The vote was counted by hundreds if not thousands of people all across the state.  All of them sent their totals to Kathryn Harris, who added them up and certified them then passed the results on to the legislature and JEB.
Relax -  I was talking merely of the decision to call Florida for Bush and declare the election decided by FOX News.
Logged
elcorazon
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3,402


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2004, 10:49:00 AM »

I was watching "Outfoxed" and some guy said something completely true, IMHO. He said that FOX's and then the other networks decisions to call Florida for Bush at 2 AM even though you really couldn't tell from the data, led to a perception throughout the legal battle that Bush was the current winner and Gore was trying to knock him off. That perception may have hurt Gore more than any legal mistake or something of the sort.

The fact that Bush had more votes had absolutely nothing to do with it.

I suggest the democrats move on, its over.

you are correct: it is over.  However, the FACT is that Gore had MORE VOTES.  Just making sure you know the FACTS.

The point of the thread is valid, however, although it may not have changed the result (we'll never really know that one).  The biggest impact may have been the impact of Gore "seeming" to be the loser, before that was clear, causing the perception of him to be more negative.

Logged
ATFFL
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,754
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2004, 11:11:58 AM »

I was watching "Outfoxed" and some guy said something completely true, IMHO. He said that FOX's and then the other networks decisions to call Florida for Bush at 2 AM even though you really couldn't tell from the data, led to a perception throughout the legal battle that Bush was the current winner and Gore was trying to knock him off. That perception may have hurt Gore more than any legal mistake or something of the sort.

The fact that Bush had more votes had absolutely nothing to do with it.

I suggest the democrats move on, its over.

you are correct: it is over.  However, the FACT is that Gore had MORE VOTES.  Just making sure you know the FACTS.

The point of the thread is valid, however, although it may not have changed the result (we'll never really know that one).  The biggest impact may have been the impact of Gore "seeming" to be the loser, before that was clear, causing the perception of him to be more negative.



No, Bush had more votes in every credible count by a variety of organizations.

More people may have gone to the polls intending to vote for Gore, but if they are unable to figure out a ballot and too proud to ask for help, they forfeit their right to vote.

The state being called for Gore also kept people in the panhandle from voting.  No one knows how many people with the intent to vote for Bush stayed home or left the line at a polling place because they heard the state was over.  They also forfeit their right to vote.

In the end, Florida was a mess for a variety of reasons.
Logged
ThePrezMex
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 730
Mexico


Political Matrix
E: 5.25, S: -1.69

WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2004, 04:03:30 PM »

To my Democratic fans, do AMERICA a favor and accept that, nearly 4 years later, you lost the 2000 Presidential election. And its more than Florida, it's Tennessee. If you guys could only win Gore's HOME STATE. The state that elected him Senator and went for Clinton twice. All you had to do was win there and even if Bush got Florida, Tennessee would have been enough for Gore to win. But guess what? Neither Tennessee nor Florida wanted Gore. You lost. It's done.

I agree. It was all Gore's fault.
Yes, Florida was a mess and it shouldn't have happened the way it did (and hopefully nothing like that will be repeated), but.. Gore should have won his home state! and NH and WV, and even NV!
Given the state of the economy back then, Clinton's approval ratings, etc., the defeat can only be explained by Gore's incompetence.
Even if I could also write dozens of reasons why I believe W has been a bad president, Gore proved that he was not up to it either (for a sample, just look at his great gratitude towards Lieberman by betraying him and endorsing Dean).
Logged
Akno21
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,066
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2004, 04:04:04 PM »

I was watching "Outfoxed" and some guy said something completely true, IMHO. He said that FOX's and then the other networks decisions to call Florida for Bush at 2 AM even though you really couldn't tell from the data, led to a perception throughout the legal battle that Bush was the current winner and Gore was trying to knock him off. That perception may have hurt Gore more than any legal mistake or something of the sort.

The fact that Bush had more votes had absolutely nothing to do with it.

I suggest the democrats move on, its over.

you are correct: it is over.  However, the FACT is that Gore had MORE VOTES.  Just making sure you know the FACTS.

The point of the thread is valid, however, although it may not have changed the result (we'll never really know that one).  The biggest impact may have been the impact of Gore "seeming" to be the loser, before that was clear, causing the perception of him to be more negative.



More people may have gone to the polls intending to vote for Gore, but if they are unable to figure out a ballot and too proud to ask for help, they forfeit their right to vote.


O, so now Republicans want to discriminate against dumb people? You guys are really elitist.
Logged
elcorazon
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3,402


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2004, 04:10:06 PM »

To my Democratic fans, do AMERICA a favor and accept that, nearly 4 years later, you lost the 2000 Presidential election. And its more than Florida, it's Tennessee. If you guys could only win Gore's HOME STATE. The state that elected him Senator and went for Clinton twice. All you had to do was win there and even if Bush got Florida, Tennessee would have been enough for Gore to win. But guess what? Neither Tennessee nor Florida wanted Gore. You lost. It's done.

I agree. It was all Gore's fault.
Yes, Florida was a mess and it shouldn't have happened the way it did (and hopefully nothing like that will be repeated), but.. Gore should have won his home state! and NH and WV, and even NV!
Given the state of the economy back then, Clinton's approval ratings, etc., the defeat can only be explained by Gore's incompetence.
Even if I could also write dozens of reasons why I believe W has been a bad president, Gore proved that he was not up to it either (for a sample, just look at his great gratitude towards Lieberman by betraying him and endorsing Dean).

I think Lieberman cost Gore the election.  If Gore hadn't made the mistake of selecting that guy, he would be president today.  Gore realized how poor a choice Lieberman was, and endorsed his choice in 2004.

By the way, Gore received hundreds of thousands MORE votes than Bush.  You all know this, but when I said Gore got more votes previously, I was told I was wrong.  Gore got more votes.  This is NOT in dispute.  Whether he got more votes in FL is unclear.

I've heard MANY times on this board that "every recount proved Bush won".  This is not true either.  Many did show Bush won; some showed Gore won.  Of course it's all moot since the U.S. Supreme Court decided there wasn't enough time for a proper recount.
Logged
ATFFL
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,754
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2004, 05:11:00 PM »

I was watching "Outfoxed" and some guy said something completely true, IMHO. He said that FOX's and then the other networks decisions to call Florida for Bush at 2 AM even though you really couldn't tell from the data, led to a perception throughout the legal battle that Bush was the current winner and Gore was trying to knock him off. That perception may have hurt Gore more than any legal mistake or something of the sort.

The fact that Bush had more votes had absolutely nothing to do with it.

I suggest the democrats move on, its over.

you are correct: it is over.  However, the FACT is that Gore had MORE VOTES.  Just making sure you know the FACTS.

The point of the thread is valid, however, although it may not have changed the result (we'll never really know that one).  The biggest impact may have been the impact of Gore "seeming" to be the loser, before that was clear, causing the perception of him to be more negative.



More people may have gone to the polls intending to vote for Gore, but if they are unable to figure out a ballot and too proud to ask for help, they forfeit their right to vote.


O, so now Republicans want to discriminate against dumb people? You guys are really elitist.

Who made the confusing ballot?

If you do not understand tha ballot and do not ask for help you do not get to complain if you screw up.  You had the chance to do it right and blew it.  No, you do not get to go back and fix it.

And I love how my view represents all Republicans.  I had no clue I was so influential.  Fear my power over the party!

Since you ignore the effect of the early call I can only assume Democrats* would like to ignore that.  

* Possibly just you.
Logged
KEmperor
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,454
United States


Political Matrix
E: 8.00, S: -0.05

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2004, 05:56:53 PM »

I was watching "Outfoxed" and some guy said something completely true, IMHO. He said that FOX's and then the other networks decisions to call Florida for Bush at 2 AM even though you really couldn't tell from the data, led to a perception throughout the legal battle that Bush was the current winner and Gore was trying to knock him off. That perception may have hurt Gore more than any legal mistake or something of the sort.

The fact that Bush had more votes had absolutely nothing to do with it.

I suggest the democrats move on, its over.

you are correct: it is over.  However, the FACT is that Gore had MORE VOTES.  Just making sure you know the FACTS.

The point of the thread is valid, however, although it may not have changed the result (we'll never really know that one).  The biggest impact may have been the impact of Gore "seeming" to be the loser, before that was clear, causing the perception of him to be more negative.



More people may have gone to the polls intending to vote for Gore, but if they are unable to figure out a ballot and too proud to ask for help, they forfeit their right to vote.


O, so now Republicans want to discriminate against dumb people? You guys are really elitist.

Well, if you are too dumb to use the voting machine correctly, I really don't want you choosing who runs the country.
Logged
○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└
jfern
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 53,615


Political Matrix
E: -7.38, S: -8.36

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2004, 04:26:58 AM »

I will NOT get over an election stealing, ever. If Gore had stolen the election, you would not be over it, so why should us Democrats bend over backwards? We will never forget Florida 2000.
Logged
Akno21
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,066
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2004, 04:36:16 PM »

I will NOT get over an election stealing, ever. If Gore had stolen the election, you would not be over it, so why should us Democrats bend over backwards? We will never forget Florida 2000.

Never Forget. Always Remember. Always make sure we don't experience the same pain again. Always pray Katherine Harris gets run over by a car. Never, ever forget.

(Just kidding about the Harris thing)
Logged
MarkDel
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,149


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2004, 05:05:09 PM »

I will NOT get over an election stealing, ever. If Gore had stolen the election, you would not be over it, so why should us Democrats bend over backwards? We will never forget Florida 2000.

Never Forget. Always Remember. Always make sure we don't experience the same pain again. Always pray Katherine Harris gets run over by a car. Never, ever forget.

(Just kidding about the Harris thing)

God, you're right. I mean, where in the hell did Katherine Harris get the nerve to do something as ridiculous as follow the letter of the law...
Logged
Keystone Phil
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 52,611


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2004, 05:08:23 PM »

I will NOT get over an election stealing, ever. If Gore had stolen the election, you would not be over it, so why should us Democrats bend over backwards? We will never forget Florida 2000.

Never Forget. Always Remember. Always make sure we don't experience the same pain again.
 

Yes always remember. Remember counting the ballots over and over and over and over...and remember after ALL THOSE RECOUNTS....Gore still lost the state of Florida and the election.
Logged
MarkDel
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,149


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2004, 05:26:44 PM »

I will NOT get over an election stealing, ever. If Gore had stolen the election, you would not be over it, so why should us Democrats bend over backwards? We will never forget Florida 2000.

Never Forget. Always Remember. Always make sure we don't experience the same pain again.
 

Yes always remember. Remember counting the ballots over and over and over and over...and remember after ALL THOSE RECOUNTS....Gore still lost the state of Florida and the election.

Phil,

Yes, they seem to conveniently leave out the FACT that every news agency that "counted" the ballots after the Supreme Court decision reached the conclusion that Bush would have won by a somewhat comfortable margin. This little detail seems to get left out of their "Bush stole the election" horsesh*t.
Logged
Akno21
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,066
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2004, 06:06:20 AM »

I will NOT get over an election stealing, ever. If Gore had stolen the election, you would not be over it, so why should us Democrats bend over backwards? We will never forget Florida 2000.

Never Forget. Always Remember. Always make sure we don't experience the same pain again.
 

Yes always remember. Remember counting the ballots over and over and over and over...and remember after ALL THOSE RECOUNTS....Gore still lost the state of Florida and the election.

You guys are sort of making my point. By calling Florida for Bush at 2 AM, and then retracting it, it led to the perception that Bush was ahead, and Gore was trying to catch up to him. The state was too close to call the entire time.
Logged
○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└
jfern
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 53,615


Political Matrix
E: -7.38, S: -8.36

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2004, 03:27:23 AM »

I will NOT get over an election stealing, ever. If Gore had stolen the election, you would not be over it, so why should us Democrats bend over backwards? We will never forget Florida 2000.

Never Forget. Always Remember. Always make sure we don't experience the same pain again. Always pray Katherine Harris gets run over by a car. Never, ever forget.

(Just kidding about the Harris thing)

God, you're right. I mean, where in the hell did Katherine Harris get the nerve to do something as ridiculous as follow the letter of the law...

What letter of the law?
Some counties never had a recount.
Meanwhile all sorts of illegal absentee ballots were counted. Some people admitted to mailing ballots after the election.
Logged
○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└
jfern
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 53,615


Political Matrix
E: -7.38, S: -8.36

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2004, 03:30:17 AM »

I will NOT get over an election stealing, ever. If Gore had stolen the election, you would not be over it, so why should us Democrats bend over backwards? We will never forget Florida 2000.

Never Forget. Always Remember. Always make sure we don't experience the same pain again.
 

Yes always remember. Remember counting the ballots over and over and over and over...and remember after ALL THOSE RECOUNTS....Gore still lost the state of Florida and the election.

You guys are sort of making my point. By calling Florida for Bush at 2 AM, and then retracting it, it led to the perception that Bush was ahead, and Gore was trying to catch up to him. The state was too close to call the entire time.

FL was called for Bush because a Diebold electronic voting machine gave Al Gore -16,000 votes in one precinct. This was fixed in the results available online, but not in the results used by the media to call the election. For half an hour, Al Gore was down by only 50,000 votes, with only Al Gore's  best counties yet to fully report, and the media thought the election was over.  I kept checking all the media to see if they had retracted the call for Bush. It took them half an hour. You can't make stuff like this up! Truth is really stranger than fiction. Diebold and the media get a grade of 'F'.
Logged
Lunar
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 30,404
Ireland, Republic of
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2004, 02:32:19 PM »


Err..Florida law regarding the timeframe allowed for recounts?
Logged
Andrew
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 561
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2004, 11:02:35 AM »

Yes, they seem to conveniently leave out the FACT that every news agency that "counted" the ballots after the Supreme Court decision reached the conclusion that Bush would have won by a somewhat comfortable margin.
This is untrue.  From page A1 of The New York Times, November 12, 2001:

Ballot standards under which all disqualified ballots statewide would have been re-examined; Gore would have received the most votes

Allowing only fully-punched ballot cards and correctly marked optical-scan ballots:
Bush  2,915,130
Gore  2,915,245

Using each county's own standard:
Bush  2,917,676
Gore  2,917,847

Allowing dimples on punch cards and any marks on optical-scan ballots that indicate a candidate choice:
Bush  2,924,588
Gore  2,924,695
Logged
Lunar
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 30,404
Ireland, Republic of
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2004, 12:21:02 PM »

Link?
Logged
Pages: [1] 2  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.071 seconds with 14 queries.