15% of Canadians for Bush

[agcatter]

I'm for that.

[7,052,770]

But if Canada actually wanted to join, perhaps a large majority in a national plebisite, then we could allow them.

[Gustaf]

Yes. You must develop a British accent and stop brushing your teeth. Immediately.....Actually that is a mystery to most Brits. If a backwater like England...

Funny how you can get away making such comments with being labeled as xenophobic.  

*sigh* that was so obviously a joke, that I don't see why you even bother.

[Gustaf]

What? In what way have I shown that I "have a problem with American independence"? All I am saying is that I do not believe you would be giving up you independece, Canada would be giving up their's, b/c they're much smaller. Got it?

Well, if you have no problem with American independence, then there should be no problem with the US and Canada remaining separate countries.  Problem solved!

I never said there was a "problem with the US and Canada remaining separate countries" either. Stop putting words in my mouth, please.

[Gustaf]

Alright, I'm just going to say a few things here.  First, I don't think Canada would EVER join the USA.....All in all, Canada will never join the US in the near future, so all the debate is quite useless.

Also add to that the fact the US doesn't want to join with Canada.

Contrary to the opinion of others on this forum, it is totally healthy to want to be independent.  In fact, the mental illness is with those that mock independence.

I'd like to point out that I have not "mocked independece". i am all for it.

[Gustaf]

Why would a sovereign country want to give up their power to another?  

Look at Europe...

[minionofmidas]

Why would a sovereign country want to give up their power to another?  

Look at Europe...

What else but "giving up their power" is any international treaty?
The difference is in the "to another" part, of course. But then, people sometimes have their reasons...The Moldovans voted a party in in the early 90s that wanted to merge the country with Romania. Now that option is dead, they are thinking about Ukraine.

[Gustaf]

Why would a sovereign country want to give up their power to another?  

Look at Europe...

What else but "giving up their power" is any international treaty?
The difference is in the "to another" part, of course. But then, people sometimes have their reasons...The Moldovans voted a party in in the early 90s that wanted to merge the country with Romania. Now that option is dead, they are thinking about Ukraine.

That's a point, but there's a difference in a treaty and a merge, b/c a treaty still recognizes your independece. It's like the difference between borrowing money and doing compulsory military service.

[ElectionAtlas]

Hey all.  This is a very interesting topic to me - and I've had conversations about this very subject with several good Canadian friends of mine (one a staunch Quebec separatist, and the other a supporter from Quebec of US/Canada union).

One certainty from a union is economic - there is no question that the two countries would benefit economically from such a union.   As for American fear - remember federism. States make most of the laws governing the people living within that state (Actually, the US Constitution grants the federal government only limited powers - see Article I, Section 8, such as the power to regulate interstate and international commerce, coin money, creating a post office, declare war, etc.).  

For example, in TX, one can own and carry any firearm almost anywhere conceiled, but in MA, you must be fingerprinted, pass an interview with the local police captain, have a signed note from a range or other facility stating that you are a member, give references to be interviewed, and go through the process again in four years when a license expires - and after all that, one can only carry a handgun for the express purpose granted in the license.  

Gay marriage may be soon be law in MA, but I doubt it will happen anytime soon in ID.  VT may have state-sponsored healthcare systems, but NY doesn't.  NH doesn't have an income tax or sales tax, but MA, right next door takes 6% and 5% respectively.  Interestingly, QC (Quebec - used to be PQ), would likely be better off under the US Constitution than in Canada - because it may have more power as a state (I don't know well enough the current power of Quebec in Canada).

BTW, I really ask you all to cool down on the personal retorts.  Analytical discussion please (use data and facts to back arguments - just because you say or feel something, doesn't meen its true - plus other may feel differently, and that is ok).  The purpose of debate is to present arguments for a particular position and to attempt to convince the other party to adopt your position.  That will not happen if the arguments are derogatory or insulting in nature.

Now, I'm going to add more precinct data...

[© tweed]

Because you can't seem to understand the desire for privacy, I quoted a proverb showing that good neighbors mind their own business.

How are the European members infringing on your privacy?  They just discuss policy with us Americans.  They are not barging into your house, or even cluttering the boards with useless threads.  They mean no harm, and they do no harm.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Perhaps Canada and the U.S could have a relationship somewhat like the member states of the E.U have?

They could have some form of North American Parliament, and perhaps a Senate as well.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

What? In what way have I shown that I "have a problem with American independence"? All I am saying is that I do not believe you would be giving up you independece, Canada would be giving up their's, b/c they're much smaller. Got it?

Well, if you have no problem with American independence, then there should be no problem with the US and Canada remaining separate countries.  Problem solved!

I never said there was a "problem with the US and Canada remaining separate countries" either. Stop putting words in my mouth, please.

Then why even argue a case for a US/Canada union?  You're basically trying to advocate a shotgun wedding for two people who have no desire to marry each other.

I don't see this as a heated argument, maybe "frustrating" but not heated.  Its frustrating for me because I don’t understand this mentality that tries to make everyone a carbon copy of each other.

I am be very good friends with my next door neighbor, but that doesn’t mean I wish to build one big house in order to share the same roof.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

As for American fear - remember federism...BTW, I really ask you all to cool down on the personal retorts.

You refer to "American fear" within a discussion of the desire to keep the US independent, yet you then turn around and ask us to cool down the personal retorts?  

There may be great economic benefit for me to share the same roof with my next door neighbor, but that doesn't mean that I care to do so.  And my desire to remain under separate roofs has nothing to do with "fear".

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Because you can't seem to understand the desire for privacy, I quoted a proverb showing that good neighbors mind their own business.

How are the European members infringing on your privacy?  They just discuss policy with us Americans.  They are not barging into your house, or even cluttering the boards with useless threads.  They mean no harm, and they do no harm.

My comments were not limited to foreigners; the comments were inclusive of even my next door neighbor, which is why I quoted:

Pro 25:17 "Seldom set foot in your neighbor's house- too much of you, and he will hate you."

Notice the verse doesn't chastise the homeowner's desire to be left alone nor his hatred towards a neighbor hanging around too much; rather it warns the uninvited "guest" to respect the privacy and individuality of others, especially neighbors.

It’s simply a matter of common sense, yet you’ve turned that common sense on its head and labeled it xenophobia.  

[© tweed]

This is not your forum, therefore they have not set foot on your property.  And we have all set foot on Leip's property, whether we live in New York or Texas or London or Berlin.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

This is not your forum, therefore they have not set foot on your property.  And we have all set foot on Leip's property, whether we live in New York or Texas or London or Berlin.

Another tangent meant to increase tension?  Grow up.  My comments had nothing to do with the property of this forum, and you know it.

In fact, I basically told Leip the same thing.

[© tweed]

You refer to "American fear" within a discussion of the desire to keep the US independent, yet you then turn around and ask us to cool down the personal retorts?  

There may be great economic benefit for me to share the same roof with my next door neighbor, but that doesn't mean that I care to do so.  And my desire to remain under separate roofs has nothing to do with "fear".

No, that really isn't much like what I said.

[Gustaf]

What? In what way have I shown that I "have a problem with American independence"? All I am saying is that I do not believe you would be giving up you independece, Canada would be giving up their's, b/c they're much smaller. Got it?

Well, if you have no problem with American independence, then there should be no problem with the US and Canada remaining separate countries.  Problem solved!

I never said there was a "problem with the US and Canada remaining separate countries" either. Stop putting words in my mouth, please.

Then why even argue a case for a US/Canada union?  You're basically trying to advocate a shotgun wedding for two people who have no desire to marry each other.

I don't see this as a heated argument, maybe "frustrating" but not heated.  Its frustrating for me because I don’t understand this mentality that tries to make everyone a carbon copy of each other.

I am be very good friends with my next door neighbor, but that doesn’t mean I wish to build one big house in order to share the same roof.

I have not argued the "case for a US/Canada union". Again, please stop labeling me with opinions tha i haven't expressed.

[Gustaf]

You refer to "American fear" within a discussion of the desire to keep the US independent, yet you then turn around and ask us to cool down the personal retorts?  

There may be great economic benefit for me to share the same roof with my next door neighbor, but that doesn't mean that I care to do so.  And my desire to remain under separate roofs has nothing to do with "fear".

No, that really isn't much like what I said.

He was talking to Leip.

[© tweed]

I know he was.

[Gustaf]

I know he was.

OK...then why the "that really isn't much like what I said"?

[© tweed]

I know he was.

OK...then why the "that really isn't much like what I said"?

Read this thread starting at page 4 and you'll understand.

[Gustaf]

I know he was.

OK...then why the "that really isn't much like what I said"?

Read this thread starting at page 4 and you'll understand.

No, sorry, but I don't... I guess I am just tired from sitting up late yesterday watching Sweden-Australia in tennis.

[© tweed]

In fact, I basically told Leip the same thing.

You see hwat I mean now, Gustaf?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

I have not argued the "case for a US/Canada union". Again, please stop labeling me with opinions tha i haven't expressed.

OK, this is probably a case of you getting into the middle of an debate between me and someone else.  I was arguing a case for independence and you inserted the following comment:

"I don't think the US would cease to be an independent country if you allowed Canada to join..."

A US/Canada union would obviously end US independence from Canada.

Living under the same roof as my next door neighbor may still have me independent of you, but I have still lost some independence nonetheless.