Chavez vows to close or take over private schools

[John Dibble]

No, I mean socialists as in left wingers/liberals, such as a more extreme version of you.

All liberals support indoctrinating every child into their belief system?

Yep, that's why they are strong proponents of a secular school system. Politics is all about indoctrination and where better to start then with children.

That's a rather flawed assertion, States. For one thing, all liberals aren't secular people - many of them are church going Christians. The purpose of a secular school system in my view is not to indoctrinate, but to encourage an atmosphere of free thought and discussion in which all ideas can be presented. If people were calling for an openly atheist school system (one that openly stated all religions are wrong and God doesn't exist) on the other hand, I would say that such a system would be for indoctrination, but the current system does not make these claims.

[opebo]

You support a school system that is openly and specifically geared to train students to be mindlessly supportive of a country's government?

What do you think the United States school system does?

Is it just me, or has there been a noted increase lately of arguments of the form "X does Y, so it's okay for Z to do Y too"?

It's not just you. People seem to forget that two wrongs don't make a right.

No they don't.  People seem to forget there is no objective 'right' or 'wrong', just positions and interests.  So it is worth pointing out hypocrisy.

[© tweed]

Chavez is clearly a communist dictator.

death toll : zero

[© tweed]

and of course, the Chavez economic model much more closely resembles Peronism or Latino fascism-lite than it does Marxism-Leninism.  Chavez really has nothing to do with Marxism-Leninism.

[© tweed]

Chavez is clearly a communist dictator.

death toll : zero

also worth noting, since there is no capital punishment in Venezuela and there's hasn't been for 150 years IIRC (Catholic thing probably), the government-sponsored death toll in the USA dwarfs that of Chavez' since he took power.

[Hatman 🍁]

I've always wondered why we have a one-tiered health care system, but never bothered to do the same for education in Canada. There's no reason for private schools to exist.

[Gustaf]

All the people comparing the American education system to the one in Venezuela are, quite frankly, plain idiots. The majority of the people on the forum are products of that education system, and most of you are left-winged. So you obviously weren't all that indoctrinated. Comparing your own middle-class left-wing intellectual society and upbringing to that of people living in a dictatorship is childish, immature and somewhat offensive. Seriously, grow up.

[??????????]

There's no reason for private schools to exist.

That's neither you or the states business.

[opebo]

All the people comparing the American education system to the one in Venezuela are, quite frankly, plain idiots. The majority of the people on the forum are products of that education system, and most of you are left-winged. So you obviously weren't all that indoctrinated. Comparing your own middle-class left-wing intellectual society and upbringing to that of people living in a dictatorship is childish, immature and somewhat offensive. Seriously, grow up.

We must be extremely atypical, Gustaf, as we have no electoral influence or representation.  In fact of course most people remain indoctrinated into the 'liberal' (in the European sense) mentality, to such an extent that they really cannot even understand the opposing point of view about such things as 'private property'.

[Gustaf]

All the people comparing the American education system to the one in Venezuela are, quite frankly, plain idiots. The majority of the people on the forum are products of that education system, and most of you are left-winged. So you obviously weren't all that indoctrinated. Comparing your own middle-class left-wing intellectual society and upbringing to that of people living in a dictatorship is childish, immature and somewhat offensive. Seriously, grow up.

We must be extremely atypical, Gustaf, as we have no electoral influence or representation.  In fact of course most people remain indoctrinated into the 'liberal' (in the European sense) mentality, to such an extent that they really cannot even understand the opposing point of view about such things as 'private property'.

Unlike you I don't look down on "ordinary" people, so I would think the explanation is rather that people with a little experience come to realize that certain political iedologoies are very removed from reality and simply not very wise. Therefore, opinions such as yours don't have much electoral influence because few people agree with it.

[DanielX]

I've always wondered why we have a one-tiered health care system, but never bothered to do the same for education in Canada. There's no reason for private schools to exist.

That's pretty much fascist. (To be frank, single-payer healthcare is also borderline, but eliminating private education is worse).

I am not kidding. I believe that the existence of alternative methods of education is an essential feedback to prevent governments from indoctrinating students in propaganda. Forcing private schools to tow a government line, or be eliminated in favor of all-public education... where have those tactics generally been done? Fascist and/or Communist dictatorships, or authoritarian monarchies. That Chavez is doing the same thing is one thing that proves he is a totalitarian nutjob and deserves to be assassinated or overthrown in a coup.

And as someone who spent 13 years in public school, I'm thoroughly convinced in the value of private schools.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

That's pretty much fascist.

Is it? Why?

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Now you're just being absurd. Clearly everyone with different opinions to you is a fascist! That's the sort of idiocy I'd normally expect from Trots...

[DanielX]

That's pretty much fascist.

Is it? Why?

Forbidding private or home schooling? Can you not see why it would be, at least, suspect? It leaves no option other than government approved "public" education.

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Now you're just being absurd. Clearly everyone with different opinions to you is a fascist! That's the sort of idiocy I'd normally expect from Trots...
[/quote]

Not true as such. However, any blanket prohibition on establishing a business that does not actively harm other people is, at best, suspicious. If I want to pay for my own healthcare, why shouldn't I be allowed to do so? Is paying money for my own surgeries such a threat to society? Its not as bad as banning private education, because at least it is not dealing with the minds of young children (generally speaking; I do wonder about psychologists on state payroll...).

I do agree that perhaps "fascist" is the wrong label, as it is often used, more specifically, to indicate only certain kinds of totalitarian ideologies. Perhaps "authoritarian" or "totalitarian" is more accurate and less overused.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Forbidding private or home schooling? Can you not see why it would be, at least, suspect? It leaves no option other than government approved "public" education.

It wouldn't be "suspect" in a lot of places. In Venezuela, yes, I guess so, but it still isn't fascist.

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Your attempts to defend an utterly indefensible use of the word "fascist" is nothing if not pathetic. Especially when you then procede to do the same for the words "authoritarian" and "totalitarian"...

[opebo]

All the people comparing the American education system to the one in Venezuela are, quite frankly, plain idiots. The majority of the people on the forum are products of that education system, and most of you are left-winged. So you obviously weren't all that indoctrinated. Comparing your own middle-class left-wing intellectual society and upbringing to that of people living in a dictatorship is childish, immature and somewhat offensive. Seriously, grow up.

We must be extremely atypical, Gustaf, as we have no electoral influence or representation.  In fact of course most people remain indoctrinated into the 'liberal' (in the European sense) mentality, to such an extent that they really cannot even understand the opposing point of view about such things as 'private property'.

Unlike you I don't look down on "ordinary" people, so I would think the explanation is rather that people with a little experience come to realize that certain political iedologoies are very removed from reality and simply not very wise. Therefore, opinions such as yours don't have much electoral influence because few people agree with it.

But why do people think anything that removes the current controllers from their position of power is 'very removed from reality and simply not very wise'?  Because those controllers make it so, Gustaf.  Think about it you simple Swede, if you have all the money don't you think you probably have all the power too?  Otherwise how do you get and keep the money?  I know, I know, you're incapable of thinking outside the paradigm they indoctrinated you into.

[Gustaf]

All the people comparing the American education system to the one in Venezuela are, quite frankly, plain idiots. The majority of the people on the forum are products of that education system, and most of you are left-winged. So you obviously weren't all that indoctrinated. Comparing your own middle-class left-wing intellectual society and upbringing to that of people living in a dictatorship is childish, immature and somewhat offensive. Seriously, grow up.

We must be extremely atypical, Gustaf, as we have no electoral influence or representation.  In fact of course most people remain indoctrinated into the 'liberal' (in the European sense) mentality, to such an extent that they really cannot even understand the opposing point of view about such things as 'private property'.

Unlike you I don't look down on "ordinary" people, so I would think the explanation is rather that people with a little experience come to realize that certain political iedologoies are very removed from reality and simply not very wise. Therefore, opinions such as yours don't have much electoral influence because few people agree with it.

But why do people think anything that removes the current controllers from their position of power is 'very removed from reality and simply not very wise'?  Because those controllers make it so, Gustaf.  Think about it you simple Swede, if you have all the money don't you think you probably have all the power too?  Otherwise how do you get and keep the money?  I know, I know, you're incapable of thinking outside the paradigm they indoctrinated you into.

I'm sorry, I came to the third sentence and then my simple mind tried to think about it and I never managed to get any further.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Chavez is clearly a communist dictator.

Not yet but he's lurching towards it.