are you a christian?

[Ban my account ffs!]

Your self-infatuation is cute.  Keep going.  Oh, and since you seem to know, do I get to go to heaven?  What about the rest of us?  Do you decide or do you just have the "ins" with God's list?

As if I am making myself out as the Judge simply because I accept the bible.   

The Gospel in a NutShell:  There is only one Judge, Jesus Christ.  And his testimony is that we have been born with a fatally flawed nature that is hostile to God and that, in order to be saved, we must repent of all sin and place our trust in him.  In return, he has promised to forgive all of our sins and give us a new nature that will lead us to eternal life.

I can't help but notice that you have let worldly prejudices heavily influence your faith.  You have not professed your faith from a Biblical manner, but have sought out Bible verses to justify your preconceived prejudices.

You do not know who goes to heaven and who goes to hell.  Don't pretend that you do.

But what bugs people most is that you believe what you believe is the only true way to believe (which is understandable), but you lord it over everybody else and you have a very smug attitude when people disagree, and you simply hide behind Bible verses like it's supposed to impress us.  You pretend to have an answer for every challenge and absolutely refuse to admit that you may very well be wrong.

In other words, your self pride is your downfall.

[Ban my account ffs!]

Jmfcst, all I'm going to say is I was born gay.. I have always like guys, even when I was a little kid. I had my first crush on a guy at the age 5. I know you will say I wasn't, but you aren't gay so therefore you have no clue. You put your faith in a book written by man. I know I do too, but all I am saying is we have no clue how God really thinks, he sure didn't come down from heaven and tell me.

Also let me tell you I did get saved, back in May, and my feelings for guys didn't change. I can't change who I am or how God made me.

Very well said.

Your relationship with God is between you and God.  Don't let the (wrong in my view) opinions of people like INKS and Jmfsct change that.  Don't let your faith become a simple means to blindly follow those that wish to take advantage of you.

[Ebowed]

The ONLY context for sex which the bible places in an acceptable light is sex within the context of a man and woman in marriage.

Or a man and his several women in marriage.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Jmfcst, all I'm going to say is I was born gay.. I have always like guys, even when I was a little kid. I had my first crush on a guy at the age 5. I know you will say I wasn't, but you aren't gay so therefore you have no clue. You put your faith in a book written by man. I know I do too, but all I am saying is we have no clue how God really thinks, he sure didn't come down from heaven and tell me.

Also let me tell you I did get saved, back in May, and my feelings for guys didn't change. I can't change who I am or how God made me.

I have no doubt you were born that way.  I also have no doubt that Christ can give you a second birth.  Is that what Jesus was referring to when he said, “No one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born again’?  Religion doesn’t give people new lives, only Christ can do that.

[Ebowed]

I have no doubt you were born that way.  I also have no doubt that Christ can give you a second birth.

If someone is physically NOT ATTRACTED TO WOMEN, how is praying to God going to change that?

Gay reparative therapy is a pseudoscience and does not work.

[Josh/Devilman88]

Jmfcst, all I'm going to say is I was born gay.. I have always like guys, even when I was a little kid. I had my first crush on a guy at the age 5. I know you will say I wasn't, but you aren't gay so therefore you have no clue. You put your faith in a book written by man. I know I do too, but all I am saying is we have no clue how God really thinks, he sure didn't come down from heaven and tell me.

Also let me tell you I did get saved, back in May, and my feelings for guys didn't change. I can't change who I am or how God made me.

I have no doubt you were born that way.  I also have no doubt that Christ can give you a second birth.  Is that what Jesus was referring to when he said, “No one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born again’?  Religion doesn’t give people new lives, only Christ can do that.

I know that. I asked Christ into my heart to save me, and I know I got saved. I'm 100% sure of that. All I am saying is I can't help the feelings I have for guys, I have tried in the past to push them away, but they don't go away at all. I can't force my self to like women, that is just wrong. You may disagree, but I know my heart.

[Friz]

Jmfcst, all I'm going to say is I was born gay.. I have always like guys, even when I was a little kid. I had my first crush on a guy at the age 5. I know you will say I wasn't, but you aren't gay so therefore you have no clue. You put your faith in a book written by man. I know I do too, but all I am saying is we have no clue how God really thinks, he sure didn't come down from heaven and tell me.

Also let me tell you I did get saved, back in May, and my feelings for guys didn't change. I can't change who I am or how God made me.

I have no doubt you were born that way.  I also have no doubt that Christ can give you a second birth.  Is that what Jesus was referring to when he said, “No one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born again’?  Religion doesn’t give people new lives, only Christ can do that.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

The ONLY context for sex which the bible places in an acceptable light is sex within the context of a man and woman in marriage.

Or a man and his several women in marriage.

Yes, but polygamy, though allowed in the Old Testament, was not the original formula.  Not to mention that the New Testament does away with polygamy.

Even incest was allowed prior to Law of Moses (Abraham was even married to his half-sister, Sarah...both having the same father).  But, of course, incest would have to be allowed when starting the human race with a single set of parents.
 
But, even in where incest and polygamy were allowed, it was still heterosexual relations.
.

[afleitch]

The ONLY context for sex which the bible places in an acceptable light is sex within the context of a man and woman in marriage.

Or a man and his several women in marriage.

He only says that now because I got him to concede on everything else and was half way to whooping his ass on that issue too before the thread was locked.

[Ebowed]

Yes, but polygamy, though allowed in the Old Testament, was not the original formula.

Basing all subsequent examples of an institution on the first is a logical fallacy.

But, even in where incest and polygamy were allowed, it was still heterosexual relations.

This is a pretty funny statement.  "Well, even if polygamy was allowed, and women were treated like property, at least there weren't any f****tS!"  What a nice man you are.

[Friz]

I was once a Christian.  But most of the answers from Christians in this thread explain why I'm not one anymore.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Yes, but polygamy, though allowed in the Old Testament, was not the original formula.

Basing all subsequent examples of an institution on the first is a logical fallacy.

Really?!  Then I guess Jesus Christ used flawed logic, for when he agrued against divorce he said:

"Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning."  (Mat 19:8 )

[Ebowed]

Then I guess Jesus Christ used flawed logic

Yes.  He did.

If a married couple cannot resolve their differences, divorce can and should be a viable option.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

The ONLY context for sex which the bible places in an acceptable light is sex within the context of a man and woman in marriage.

Or a man and his several women in marriage.

He only says that now because I got him to concede on everything else and was half way to whooping his ass on that issue too before the thread was locked.

So, now you're trying to claim you forced me into using arguments of first reference.  Dude, I have ALWAYS used arguments for first reference.  Arguments of first reference are one of the first things I noticed in the bible. I NEVER try to formulate a doctrine without FIRST tracing the history of how it was dealt with during different periods of the bible.

Here is a post I wrote back in Dec 2003, long before you arrived on this forum:

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=245.msg6274;topicseen#msg6274

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[afleitch]

Yes, you got so worked up to the extent you were failing to answer to direct questions put to you on that infamous thread. You were only bailed out because the thread was closed.

I hereby concede every inch of ground of all arguments relating to proper translation.

Since then you never use your old grand argument against homosexuals and instead are boxed into the 'marriage' issue. So don't pretend you are consistent. You changed your tack because you abandoned one direction. And thats why I threw everything I had at you. Don't belittle a Jesuit lad. We can be nippy.

[Speed of Sound]

Nope, not anymore. Early 2006 brought a close to that. (Now a Secular Humanist)

Just out of curiosity, what changed your mind?

it started with political differences, enough to at least let me look into other things. I at that time believed a god existed in all three judeo forms (Jewish, Christian, and Muslim). From UU I was able to explore the proof and science, and when you look deeo enough, it just isnt there. The proof just isnt there.

[Hash]

I was once a Christian.  But most of the answers from Christians in this thread explain why I'm not one anymore.

Very well said.

[opebo]

Jmfcst... you aren't gay...

I see no reason to jump to that conclusion, Josh.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Yes, you got so worked up to the extent you were failing to answer to direct questions put to you on that infamous thread. You were only bailed out because the thread was closed.

I hereby concede every inch of ground of all arguments relating to proper translation.

Since then you never use your old grand argument against homosexuals and instead are boxed into the 'marriage' issue. So don't pretend you are consistent. You changed your tack because you abandoned one direction. And thats why I threw everything I had at you. Don't belittle a Jesuit lad. We can be nippy.

Dude, the reason why I conceded all ground on translations was because no matter how you try to turn the translations away from homosexuality, you are still left with three undeniable facts:

1) God instituted marriage and defined it as a union between male and female.
2) God defined the proper context of sex to be within the context of a marriage.
3) Every single example of same-sex sex in the bible is placed in a condemnable light.

[opebo]

Dude, the reason why I conceded all ground on translations was because no matter how you try to turn the translations away from homosexuality, you are still left with three undeniable facts:

1) God instituted marriage and defined it as a union between male and female.
2) God defined the proper context of sex to be within the context of a marriage.

'God'?  Where are you getting this?  You can say something is stated in the bible, but to claim that 'god' instituted or defined anything is certainly deniable.
 

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Yeah, now that is a better formulation of your argument.  And one reason why tolerants such myself are anti-christian.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Yeah, now that is a better formulation of your argument.  And one reason why tolerants such myself are anti-christian.

well, at least you admit to the obvious: all translational arguements aside,  the bible has nothing but bad things to say abuot same-sex sex. 

[Josh/Devilman88]

Yes, you got so worked up to the extent you were failing to answer to direct questions put to you on that infamous thread. You were only bailed out because the thread was closed.

I hereby concede every inch of ground of all arguments relating to proper translation.

Since then you never use your old grand argument against homosexuals and instead are boxed into the 'marriage' issue. So don't pretend you are consistent. You changed your tack because you abandoned one direction. And thats why I threw everything I had at you. Don't belittle a Jesuit lad. We can be nippy.

Dude, the reason why I conceded all ground on translations was because no matter how you try to turn the translations away from homosexuality, you are still left with three undeniable facts:

1) God instituted marriage and defined it as a union between male and female.
2) God defined the proper context of sex to be within the context of a marriage.
3) Every single example of same-sex sex in the bible is placed in a condemnable light.

Show me in the bible where?

[opebo]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Yeah, now that is a better formulation of your argument.  And one reason why tolerants such myself are anti-christian.

well, at least you admit to the obvious: all translational arguements aside,  the bible has nothing but bad things to say abuot same-sex sex. 

Certainly!  I have no desire to white-wash that hateful document.  

[Person Man]

Yes. This would be better if it was a poll.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Dude, the reason why I conceded all ground on translations was because no matter how you try to turn the translations away from homosexuality, you are still left with three undeniable facts:

1) God instituted marriage and defined it as a union between male and female.
2) God defined the proper context of sex to be within the context of a marriage.
3) Every single example of same-sex sex in the bible is placed in a condemnable light.

Show me in the bible where?

Where is what?

Where God instituted marriage as a union between male and female?  

Gen 2:23-24 23 The man said, "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called 'woman,' for she was taken out of man." 24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

Where God defined the context of sex as being within a marriage? 

Gen 4:1 Adam lay with his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain.

1Cor 7:9 If they cannot control themselves (sexually), they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

Where are the examples of same-sex sex in the bible?  

Gen 19: 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."

Lev 18:22 Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

Lev 20:13 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Rom 1:26-27 Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

--

Now, before everyone lights their torches and comes after me arguing that the “proper translations” of these verses aren’t talking about “a loving homosexual relationship”, I’ll concede all ground on translations.  My point is that, regardless of how these verses are spun, the undeniable fact is that these verses are discussing same-sex sex. And doing so in a negative light

So, if homosexuality is allowed by God, then where is a positive example of it in the bible?  Why are all the examples of same-sex sex negative?  Why is homosexuality in disagreement with how God placed sex in the context of a marriage between male and female?