Abortion

[JOEBIALEK]

On this 35th anniversary of the Roe v. Wade decision, I would like to share my views on the issue of abortion.
 
Life begins at the point of conception.  No one can deny that after a human being is conceived it will develop into the very same being as those debating this issue.  What astounds me is that those who favor abortion went through an identical development stage as the being they are condemning to death.  Would these very same people agree that a similiar choice should have been made about their own existence?  Abortion today is used primarily as a birth control of convenience because people are too self-centered to take precautions.  They prefer their own pleasurable self-indulgence over the care and sanctity of the life they created.  What ever happened to taking responsibility for one's actions in this country?  Is it too much to ask a woman who has conceived to place the child into adoption?  Nine months of discomfort is nothing compared to life in prison for voluntary manslaughter!  Does the father of the child have a say in this?  And what about the constitution of the United States?  Are not all people conceived in this country deserving of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?  I believe abortion is a crime against humanity and should be outlawed.   We need to overturn the Roe v. Wade decision and get back to cherishing life in this country.  For a country that murders it's children cannot be far from self destruction.

[Verily]

First off, you're basing your argument on the assumption that life begins at conception. The dispute lies there, not in anything later in what you argue, so it might be a good idea to back up your argument at the point of contention, which instead you put forward as an axiomatic assertion.

Also, a number of your statements are obvious propaganda for the anti-abortion crowd and easily proven false, though I am not even going to bother.

That I, someone who doesn't care about abortion either way, could find such flaws in your argument so easily, means that you need to refine it rather than presenting it as the dogmatic fact.

[JSojourner]

On this 35th anniversary of the Roe v. Wade decision, I would like to share my views on the issue of abortion.
 
Life begins at the point of conception. 
According to whom?

 No one can deny that after a human being is conceived it will develop into the very same being as those debating this issue.
There is a difference between ACTUAL life and POTENTIAL life.  But I would agree that both are precious.

  What astounds me is that those who favor abortion went through an identical development stage as the being they are condemning to death.

I can't think of a single person who favors abortion.  I know I don't.  But I see a horrendously slippery slope and very dangerous precedent in making it a criminal act.  Tell me.  How do you think abortive mothers should be punished?  If we are going to make something illegal, there has to be a consequence for breaking the law.

  Would these very same people agree that a similiar choice should have been made about their own existence? 
Sometimes, yes. Sometimes, no.  But that's not the issue.  The issue is making it illegal.  And then, what to do with all the violators involved -- the mother, the doctor, the nurses and assistants, the person who schedules the appointment, whoever pays for the abortion....got room in your county jail?

Abortion today is used primarily as a birth control of convenience because people are too self-centered to take precautions. 
Couple things:  1.  A large number of the people who oppose abortion rights also oppose the right to birth control. Other tepidly support the right to SOME birth control, but for married people only.  2.  The anti - choice folks, and I know because I used to be one -- I even picketed in the 80's -- , love to call it "a convenience".  Seriously -- think about that.  Is it "convenient" to have your guts sucked out?  Is it "convenient" to walk past protesters, some of whom are verbally abusive and intimidating?  More convenient than having a child who could be another little tax break?  Or another little welfare check? Childbirth hurts like hell, so does abortion.  Both come with terrible psychological consequences.  Post-partem depression and post-abortion stress syndrome are both very real.  Me and my house?  We always choose life.  Abortion was never an option in our home.  But have I the right to make you follow my ethic?  Maybe I do -- but then comes that pesky little question of punishment again.

They prefer their own pleasurable self-indulgence over the care and sanctity of the life they created. 
Oh, you mean sex.  Would you be okay then if they used the pill and a condom?  Or is there another issue you're hinting at?  Would you like to legislate chastity next?  Hey, I'm a Dad.  Believe me, I'd find that VERY attractive! LOL   ('Cept it wouldn't work anymore than the bans on abortion worked before Roe.)

 What ever happened to taking responsibility for one's actions in this country? 
Right.  I agree.  Make love, then be prepared to live with the love that you make.  That's how I was raised and it's how we will raise our daughter.  But not everyone has that same ethic.  Should they go to prison because they don't?  Pay a fine?  What?

Is it too much to ask a woman who has conceived to place the child into adoption? 
Be very careful here, my friend.  In my case, you a dialoguing with a man who had great difficulty fathering a child biologically...whose wife could not carry a fetus to term.  We ended up adopting.  So naturally -- we consider women who place their children for adoption to be HEROES.  We love such women and thank God everyday for them.  But keep some other things in mind...

Our country makes it very hard to adopt children domestically.  Other countries often make it very hard to adopt internationally.  It's bloody expensive.  In our case, about 20 thousand dollars.  Private adoptions can run even more. So yeah -- by all means -- place your child for adoption.  But that child stands a good chance of being in foster care for years after birth. Are you willing to pay the freight in terms of higher taxes?  Are you willing to pay higher taxes so that more good families can afford to adopt?  Are you willing to pay higher taxes so the birth mother can receive the necessary prenatal care to ensure she delivers a healthy baby?  I love adoption.  I love that there is a very modest tax credit, largely thanks to President Clinton.  I love that Senator Chris Dodd fought hard to make sure adoptive parents were included in the Family and Medical Leave Act.  But if you want more people to adopt, make it more affordable.

 Nine months of discomfort is nothing compared to life in prison for voluntary manslaughter! 
So you support charging abortive mothers with voluntary manslaughter?  In Indiana, I believe that's 20 years in prison.  Involuntary MS is eight years.  And how about the doctor?  Death penalty?

 Does the father of the child have a say in this? 
There's lots he can say.  Starting with, "let's not have sex". Or, "are you on the pill"?  And, "I brought a condom and I know how to properly use it."  

He can also choose to say, "I will support you while you are pregant."  And, "I will pay child support after the baby is born, until it is adopted".

And what about the constitution of the United States?  Are not all people conceived in this country deserving of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?  I believe abortion is a crime against humanity and should be outlawed.   We need to overturn the Roe v. Wade decision and get back to cherishing life in this country.  For a country that murders it's children cannot be far from self destruction.

You REALLY want to cherish life?  Start with ACTUAL life.  Like crack babies.  Your local hospital probably has a program that allows volunteers to feed and cuddle crack babies.  How about writing your Senator and Congressman, asking them to support expansion of the WIC program?  That helps protect life.  What about fighting for better pre and post-natal care?  

You care about human life at all stages, or just the fetal stage?

[Хahar 🤔]

On this 35th anniversary of the Roe v. Wade decision, I would like to share my views on the issue of abortion.
 
Life begins at the point of conception. 
According to whom?

 No one can deny that after a human being is conceived it will develop into the very same being as those debating this issue.
There is a difference between ACTUAL life and POTENTIAL life.  But I would agree that both are precious.

  What astounds me is that those who favor abortion went through an identical development stage as the being they are condemning to death.

I can't think of a single person who favors abortion.  I know I don't.  But I see a horrendously slippery slope and very dangerous precedent in making it a criminal act.  Tell me.  How do you think abortive mothers should be punished?  If we are going to make something illegal, there has to be a consequence for breaking the law.

  Would these very same people agree that a similiar choice should have been made about their own existence? 
Sometimes, yes. Sometimes, no.  But that's not the issue.  The issue is making it illegal.  And then, what to do with all the violators involved -- the mother, the doctor, the nurses and assistants, the person who schedules the appointment, whoever pays for the abortion....got room in your county jail?

Abortion today is used primarily as a birth control of convenience because people are too self-centered to take precautions. 
Couple things:  1.  A large number of the people who oppose abortion rights also oppose the right to birth control. Other tepidly support the right to SOME birth control, but for married people only.  2.  The anti - choice folks, and I know because I used to be one -- I even picketed in the 80's -- , love to call it "a convenience".  Seriously -- think about that.  Is it "convenient" to have your guts sucked out?  Is it "convenient" to walk past protesters, some of whom are verbally abusive and intimidating?  More convenient than having a child who could be another little tax break?  Or another little welfare check? Childbirth hurts like hell, so does abortion.  Both come with terrible psychological consequences.  Post-partem depression and post-abortion stress syndrome are both very real.  Me and my house?  We always choose life.  Abortion was never an option in our home.  But have I the right to make you follow my ethic?  Maybe I do -- but then comes that pesky little question of punishment again.

They prefer their own pleasurable self-indulgence over the care and sanctity of the life they created. 
Oh, you mean sex.  Would you be okay then if they used the pill and a condom?  Or is there another issue you're hinting at?  Would you like to legislate chastity next?  Hey, I'm a Dad.  Believe me, I'd find that VERY attractive! LOL   ('Cept it wouldn't work anymore than the bans on abortion worked before Roe.)

 What ever happened to taking responsibility for one's actions in this country? 
Right.  I agree.  Make love, then be prepared to live with the love that you make.  That's how I was raised and it's how we will raise our daughter.  But not everyone has that same ethic.  Should they go to prison because they don't?  Pay a fine?  What?

Is it too much to ask a woman who has conceived to place the child into adoption? 
Be very careful here, my friend.  In my case, you a dialoguing with a man who had great difficulty fathering a child biologically...whose wife could not carry a fetus to term.  We ended up adopting.  So naturally -- we consider women who place their children for adoption to be HEROES.  We love such women and thank God everyday for them.  But keep some other things in mind...

Our country makes it very hard to adopt children domestically.  Other countries often make it very hard to adopt internationally.  It's bloody expensive.  In our case, about 20 thousand dollars.  Private adoptions can run even more. So yeah -- by all means -- place your child for adoption.  But that child stands a good chance of being in foster care for years after birth. Are you willing to pay the freight in terms of higher taxes?  Are you willing to pay higher taxes so that more good families can afford to adopt?  Are you willing to pay higher taxes so the birth mother can receive the necessary prenatal care to ensure she delivers a healthy baby?  I love adoption.  I love that there is a very modest tax credit, largely thanks to President Clinton.  I love that Senator Chris Dodd fought hard to make sure adoptive parents were included in the Family and Medical Leave Act.  But if you want more people to adopt, make it more affordable.

 Nine months of discomfort is nothing compared to life in prison for voluntary manslaughter! 
So you support charging abortive mothers with voluntary manslaughter?  In Indiana, I believe that's 20 years in prison.  Involuntary MS is eight years.  And how about the doctor?  Death penalty?

 Does the father of the child have a say in this? 
There's lots he can say.  Starting with, "let's not have sex". Or, "are you on the pill"?  And, "I brought a condom and I know how to properly use it."  

He can also choose to say, "I will support you while you are pregant."  And, "I will pay child support after the baby is born, until it is adopted".

And what about the constitution of the United States?  Are not all people conceived in this country deserving of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?  I believe abortion is a crime against humanity and should be outlawed.   We need to overturn the Roe v. Wade decision and get back to cherishing life in this country.  For a country that murders it's children cannot be far from self destruction.

You REALLY want to cherish life?  Start with ACTUAL life.  Like crack babies.  Your local hospital probably has a program that allows volunteers to feed and cuddle crack babies.  How about writing your Senator and Congressman, asking them to support expansion of the WIC program?  That helps protect life.  What about fighting for better pre and post-natal care?  

You care about human life at all stages, or just the fetal stage?

Thank you.

[Reluctant Republican]

Interesting thoughts on the issue all around. I’ve written a bit on this in the past and think I’ll go head and copy a previous answer I gave to this issue.

I am pro letting females work this out for themselves. I'm a male so I really don't think I shoud have any say in what women want to do with their own bodies. Morally though, I'm torn. I think at least after a certain period of time a fetus can feel, so I do believe in some cases it is murder. However, I'm sort of an extreme libertarian and technically until it is out of the female, it might be her property more or less, and she is free to remove it from her if it troubles her. Also, population issues. We have enough people as it is, and look at where birth rates are falling [the industrial world] and watch where they are soaring [the third world] I frankly don’t want the third world’s population to get any bigger, compared to us, then it is now. Making abortion available in the third world helps at least slow this process down, which is good.

Still though, I find it morally disgusting, but when I look at the world without it, I think we’d be in a far worse off place with a lower standard of living, so it is the lesser of the evils in my view.

[7,052,770]

Whether or not a fetus can "feel" is irrelevant because it's not sentient.  The hamburger I ate for lunch could feel when it's a cow, but who cares...it's not a conscious self-aware entity.

There are some legitimate arguments against abortion, and it really annoys me when some people feel like they have to use an illogical emotional appeal rather than a logical one.

[Reluctant Republican]

Whether or not a fetus can "feel" is irrelevant because it's not sentient.  The hamburger I ate for lunch could feel when it's a cow, but who cares...it's not a conscious self-aware entity.

There are some legitimate arguments against abortion, and it really annoys me when some people feel like they have to use an illogical emotional appeal rather than a logical one.

Hey now, an argument’s an argument. I see nothing wrong with appealing to the ole ethos every once and awhile. And maybe it's not quite "aware" as we are, but I'm not really enthusiastic about anything being in crushing pain prior to its termination, wherever it knows what goes on or not. As I say however, I don't really care. When you think of the economic burden all those babies would have placed on society as a whole, abortion was the better option.

[Person Man]

Another problem with this Joe's arguement is that he confuses "cherishing life" and "personal responsibility". How do they go hand-in-hand and how are these arguments mean what they mean. I, for one, can see how claiming that the base of the human being starting with a biochemical reaction could lower human life to just a chemical reaction.

For the longest time, I was thinking how the anti-abortion position should have been a liberal position because it entails using the govenment to intervene in private life for a common good. However, I now see how it is a conservative position. Conservativism is really about the society coming first, at any individual cost. What the anti-abortion plank does is devalue each worker, singe mother and accident victim. They don't really count because they don't make since on the bottom line and the bottom line is what matters because our humanity is based on the bottom line. Conservativism isn't about "freedom" or "happiness", its just about the bottom line and arguably, letting women get abortions when they have been raped or made one tiny slip-up that will haunt them the rest of their lives is against the bottom line. It slows population growth and productivity and further slows productivity because individuals expect more dignity and dignity costs money that could be used to build another Ford or Dell. 


I can also see personal responsibility not neccesiarily being facilitated because women who are conservative (and therefore shouldn't have had sex in the first place) simply throw their newborns into dumpsters. I'd say personal responsibility means stepping to the plate, and not being force to deal with something you are not ready for.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

First off, you're basing your argument on the assumption that life begins at conception. The dispute lies there, not in anything later in what you argue, so it might be a good idea to back up your argument at the point of contention, which instead you put forward as an axiomatic assertion.

Also, a number of your statements are obvious propaganda for the anti-abortion crowd and easily proven false, though I am not even going to bother.

That I, someone who doesn't care about abortion either way, could find such flaws in your argument so easily, means that you need to refine it rather than presenting it as the dogmatic fact.

Key words.

Let's not forget the number of pregnancies that end without the mother knowing she's pregnant.

This issue is nothing but hot air and sentiment. Abortion is not nice, and shouldn't be encouraged as a first option, but the option should always be there. Abortion is one of those issues, like gay marriage that conservatives use to get the vote out. But when it comes... they do nothing why? Because they really don't care and they're using them.

Abortion will NEVER be made illegal while the majority of americans - and especially women remain pro-choice, thankfully.

[Ebowed]

Somewhere between 30% to 60% of fertilized eggs (zygotes) will never be implanted, without the female's knowledge.  Another large percentage of implanted zygotes will die, again without the female's knowledge, before becoming in any way developed into a recognizable human embryo or fetus.

If life begins at conception, consider the consequences:
- Emergency contraception (the morning-after pill) would be a form of murder equivelant to stabbing your relative or shooting a cop.
- Scientists who were able to discover that conception can occur in a petri dish are murderers since they didn't attempt to implant the zygote into a woman's uterus as soon as possible.
- Women who get abortions, an experience that over a third of women go through, are murderers who must go to jail.

Why is it that the pro-life movement refuses to endorse jail time for women who get abortions?  They shift the blame entirely to the doctors who perform them.  The woman chose to murder her own child (according to their thinking), yet they allow her to get off scot-free.  Why is this?

[© tweed]

good points...

[nclib]

While there are decent arguments against abortion, I'll respond to this one:

Does the father of the child have a say in this?

Up until this, you've argued that life begins at conception and that abortion is murder. If that were true, the father's wishes would not justify abortion. If abortion is not murder, why should the father be able to tell the woman what to do with her body. Statements like these reinforce my belief that the pro-lifers are more anti-woman than pro-fetus.

[Jake]

- Women who get abortions, an experience that over a third of women go through, are murderers who must go to jail.

Link me.

As to abortions, I don't think they should be allowed at all if a viable birth is possible. That's just a moral stance that has survived four years of personal political, religious, and moral growth and a pregnancy scare in my own life.

[afleitch]

It's not really a legal issue primarily. You could ban every abortion under every circumstance but women will still 'take a tumble' or take other measures to self-treminate. And you can hound them, and charge them and lock them up or hang them. Women will still do it.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

It's not really a legal issue primarily. You could ban every abortion under every circumstance but women will still 'take a tumble' or take other measures to self-treminate. And you can hound them, and charge them and lock them up or hang them. Women will still do it.

It's commonly claimed (I'm not entirely sure how true the claim is though) that the number of abortions in the U.K remained pretty stable after legalisation in the '60's.

[afleitch]

It's not really a legal issue primarily. You could ban every abortion under every circumstance but women will still 'take a tumble' or take other measures to self-treminate. And you can hound them, and charge them and lock them up or hang them. Women will still do it.

It's commonly claimed (I'm not entirely sure how true the claim is though) that the number of abortions in the U.K remained pretty stable after legalisation in the '60's.

From what I know you're pretty much correct there. The types of women who had abortions shifted however; more mothers with children underwent terminations IIRC in the immediate aftermath of the law reform (it was easier for them to justify doing so to their GP's)

Of course, and this is for our American friends, the UK does not have a lax abortion law. It is primarily unchanged from David Steels original legislation 40 years ago and requires the consent of 2 doctors; the burden of 'proof of necessity' is on the woman. And if you can acquire that it is increasingly difficult to find doctors who will carry out the procedure. As a result we have a 'pro-choice' lobby who are fairly happy with and protective of current legislation (though concerned about the lack of avaliable, willing doctors) and a  'pro-life' lobby who are also fairly happy with the current legislation though wish to see a reduction in the 24 week limit due to advances in survival rates of premature babies of that age (a reasonable demand). We have some die-hards of course trying to stir up trouble and make an issue for personal and political gain, but with over 80% of those polled IIRC supporting the existing law (which shows how relatively comfortable both 'sides' are with it) it's unlikely to become a major political issue.

In response to the original poster, I don't believe there is any ill-will in wishing for abortion to be 'safe, legal and rare' knowing what the alternative is. Women have carried out self induced terminations throughout recorded history; Ancient Egyptian woman bathed in very hot salt water baths for example and Ancient Rome has given us surviving texts of recomended methods for termination and contraception. You can't stop women doing it, but you can stop them doing so at due risk to their own health.

[Person Man]

There is an argument that murder could be legalized or AIDS should be allowed to occur if you believe that abortion should be allowed to occur out of the inability to stop it. Then again, there are issues of prevalence and human nature. 90% of women get abortions, regardless of legality. Only .1% of the population murders. Also, 57 or 58% of the population believes that abortion should be legal. Only .01% believes murder should be legal.

[Ebowed]

- Women who get abortions, an experience that over a third of women go through, are murderers who must go to jail.

Link me.

The number varies widely.  I was told at a church four years ago that the figure was 40% of women go through an abortion at some point in their lives.  On the other hand this website (first result in a Google search) says that
Nearly half of pregnancies among American women are unintended, and four in 10 of these are terminated by abortion.[1] Twenty-four percent of all pregnancies (excluding miscarriages) end in abortion.

The Washington Post also suggests that about one fourth of pregnancies are ending in abortion (excluding miscarriages) in recent years.  But it also says that the rate has been dropping, so the number of women who have had abortions since it was legalized would overall be higher.

The number of women who have ever had an abortion, I couldn't find, but it would be higher than the number of pregnancies that end in abortion per year, simply because it's impossible for every woman to be pregnant each year.

[Person Man]

It's actually higher in places like Chile, where abortion is a crime. In some countries, just about all of their females prisoners are abortive mothers.

[JOEBIALEK]

good points

[DanielX]

There is an argument that murder could be legalized or AIDS should be allowed to occur if you believe that abortion should be allowed to occur out of the inability to stop it. Then again, there are issues of prevalence and human nature. 90% of women get abortions, regardless of legality. Only .1% of the population murders. Also, 57 or 58% of the population believes that abortion should be legal. Only .01% believes murder should be legal.

90%? 90%?90%?!?!?!

That's a rather, um, unrealistic number. I don't know the exact numbers, but its a helluva lot less than 90%, at least in the US. Maybe somewhere in the 10-20% area at most. It's been reported that 25% of pregnancies end in abortion, but many women get multiple abortions, and other women have never been pregnant.

In any case, if that number were true I'd be very unhappy. Because I am very much pro-life, and would not desire to have a relationship with anyone who had a "convenience" abortion (for health reasons, I can accept). 

[Person Man]

There is an argument that murder could be legalized or AIDS should be allowed to occur if you believe that abortion should be allowed to occur out of the inability to stop it. Then again, there are issues of prevalence and human nature. 90% of women get abortions, regardless of legality. Only .1% of the population murders. Also, 57 or 58% of the population believes that abortion should be legal. Only .01% believes murder should be legal.

90%? 90%?90%?!?!?!

That's a rather, um, unrealistic number. I don't know the exact numbers, but its a helluva lot less than 90%, at least in the US. Maybe somewhere in the 10-20% area at most. It's been reported that 25% of pregnancies end in abortion, but many women get multiple abortions, and other women have never been pregnant.

In any case, if that number were true I'd be very unhappy. Because I am very much pro-life, and would not desire to have a relationship with anyone who had a "convenience" abortion (for health reasons, I can accept). 

Well, it's true. If 20% of women who get pregnant get an abortion in anygiven year and there a 40 years, more or less, when a woman can get an abortion, those numbers would be way over 20%, if not a large majority. Even conservatives like you get abortions.

[SPC]

Interesting thoughts on the issue all around. I’ve written a bit on this in the past and think I’ll go head and copy a previous answer I gave to this issue.

I am pro letting females work this out for themselves. I'm a male so I really don't think I shoud have any say in what women want to do with their own bodies. Morally though, I'm torn. I think at least after a certain period of time a fetus can feel, so I do believe in some cases it is murder. However, I'm sort of an extreme libertarian and technically until it is out of the female, it might be her property more or less, and she is free to remove it from her if it troubles her. Also, population issues. We have enough people as it is, and look at where birth rates are falling [the industrial world] and watch where they are soaring [the third world] I frankly don’t want the third world’s population to get any bigger, compared to us, then it is now. Making abortion available in the third world helps at least slow this process down, which is good.

Still though, I find it morally disgusting, but when I look at the world without it, I think we’d be in a far worse off place with a lower standard of living, so it is the lesser of the evils in my view.

After much evaluation over the past few months, I consider myself on the pro-life side more so than the pro-choice side. I believe that "partial" birth abortion should be illegal, as they are actually extracting and killing the baby. In a truly free market economy, supply and demand would resolve any problems of distribution. A better way to help the third world and our standard of living would be to stop sending foreign aid there and encourage them to free their economies.

On a side note, I can't believe you're supporting John McCain!

[Person Man]

Interesting thoughts on the issue all around. I’ve written a bit on this in the past and think I’ll go head and copy a previous answer I gave to this issue.

I am pro letting females work this out for themselves. I'm a male so I really don't think I shoud have any say in what women want to do with their own bodies. Morally though, I'm torn. I think at least after a certain period of time a fetus can feel, so I do believe in some cases it is murder. However, I'm sort of an extreme libertarian and technically until it is out of the female, it might be her property more or less, and she is free to remove it from her if it troubles her. Also, population issues. We have enough people as it is, and look at where birth rates are falling [the industrial world] and watch where they are soaring [the third world] I frankly don’t want the third world’s population to get any bigger, compared to us, then it is now. Making abortion available in the third world helps at least slow this process down, which is good.

Still though, I find it morally disgusting, but when I look at the world without it, I think we’d be in a far worse off place with a lower standard of living, so it is the lesser of the evils in my view.

After much evaluation over the past few months, I consider myself on the pro-life side more so than the pro-choice side. I believe that "partial" birth abortion should be illegal, as they are actually extracting and killing the baby. In a truly free market economy, supply and demand would resolve any problems of distribution. A better way to help the third world and our standard of living would be to stop sending foreign aid there and encourage them to free their economies.

On a side note, I can't believe you're supporting John McCain!

Most people beleive that partial-birth abortion shouldn't be legal in at least most cases. The main question is whether you think that any abortion should be banned. By banned, I mean that there are no abortions, or that you have to have the police's permission to get an abortion.

[SPC]

Interesting thoughts on the issue all around. I’ve written a bit on this in the past and think I’ll go head and copy a previous answer I gave to this issue.

I am pro letting females work this out for themselves. I'm a male so I really don't think I shoud have any say in what women want to do with their own bodies. Morally though, I'm torn. I think at least after a certain period of time a fetus can feel, so I do believe in some cases it is murder. However, I'm sort of an extreme libertarian and technically until it is out of the female, it might be her property more or less, and she is free to remove it from her if it troubles her. Also, population issues. We have enough people as it is, and look at where birth rates are falling [the industrial world] and watch where they are soaring [the third world] I frankly don’t want the third world’s population to get any bigger, compared to us, then it is now. Making abortion available in the third world helps at least slow this process down, which is good.

Still though, I find it morally disgusting, but when I look at the world without it, I think we’d be in a far worse off place with a lower standard of living, so it is the lesser of the evils in my view.

After much evaluation over the past few months, I consider myself on the pro-life side more so than the pro-choice side. I believe that "partial" birth abortion should be illegal, as they are actually extracting and killing the baby. In a truly free market economy, supply and demand would resolve any problems of distribution. A better way to help the third world and our standard of living would be to stop sending foreign aid there and encourage them to free their economies.

On a side note, I can't believe you're supporting John McCain!

Most people beleive that partial-birth abortion shouldn't be legal in at least most cases. The main question is whether you think that any abortion should be banned. By banned, I mean that there are no abortions, or that you have to have the police's permission to get an abortion.

Well, I think the notion that something smaller than a pencil dot is human life is kind of hard to believe, meaning that I would support the right to have an abortion at least in the first few weeks.