It's all over now

[Keystone Phil]

We already have the Vermont seat since Jeffords votes for our leadership and with us on almost every issue. If he runs again I doubt the Democrats will put up a candidate.

We could get the Virginia seat if Gov. Warner runs, Talent barely won in Missouri, the Tennessee seat because Frist is retiring...

Ok I will give you the Virginia  arguement. TN...no. You won't pick up that seat. Harold Ford was on Crossfire yesterday and Novak hinted at his possible run for Senate in 2006 and Ford kept saying how honored he was that Novak brought it up. If Ford if the nominee, your chances might improve but you won't win there. Missouri will be a GOP hold.

But let's say you pick up some of these seats. Did you forget about NY? Rudy vs. Hillary. There is a chance of a GOP pickup. There are a number of seats actually the GOP can take two years from now.

[angus]

Conservatism never dies, but the parties that subscribe to it. We had the strange death of the Conservative Party in Canada in 1993, and its 'pheonix'  like recent re-birth. And of course here in the UK, where the once all powerful Conservative Party political machine was literally blown out of the water in 1997 and is a shadow of its former self, unlikely to gain power again for another decade, yet Britain still has Conservatives. The problema with the Bush administration was that they aren't really 'conservative.' Conervatives dont run up debt, they dont shed jobs, they dont like a faltering stock market, and they certainly dont want intrusion into their private affairs under the guise of 'anti-terrorism', 'morality' or far worse, 'America.'

Word.

I'd only add that John McCain is quite capable of assassinating his own character without anyone else's help.  Thankfully.

[The Duke]

Mark Warner raised taxes.  George Allen (and Douglas Wilder) led the charge against it.  Allen will win on the tax issue.  As Virginia becomes more suburban, it becomes more economically conservative.

Allen will win.

Talent barely won, but now he's an incumbent.  You better have someone good, and you don't.

Talent will win.

Tennessee maybe.  But if I were going to proudly proclaim that I was going to retake the Senate, I'd want more than one possible pickup.

[MarkDel]

Conservatism is changing worls wide, but especially in anglophone counttries, and the USA is the last to experience this.

The world is becoming more socially liberal. It's jut happening, and thats that. bush might win, but I would be prepared to bet he is the last true social conservative to be President for a long time.

that said, economic liberalism is fading away too, and there will most likely be no more economic leftist presidents for a while either.

Yep. It has generally become acknowleged (at least in this part of the world) that the left won the social argument whereas the right won the economic argument. The world lives by compromises, n'est pas?

Michael Z,

Yes, you are right, but your analysis is incomplete. The truth is as follows:

A: The Left won the SOCIAL argument.

B: The Right won the ECONOMIC argument.

C: The Right won the INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS argument in the Cold War.

D: Nobody seems to realize C.

[Keystone Phil]

But if I were going to proudly proclaim that I was going to retake the Senate, I'd want more than one possible pickup.

Exactly. And you have to remember, the Republican majority will probably increase this year. So let's say instead of 51 GOP seats, let's just say there are 54 GOP seats when 2006 roles around. You are going to need more than Virginia, Missouri and Tennessee (and you're lucky if you get them, especially MO and TN.)

[12th Doctor]

I never said I was jumping ship.  Last night I just got hit with a wave of dispare, I'm alright now, I guess.  Seeing someone like John jump-ship to "punish Bush" makes me realize though, that things are getting grim.  If there are ever 200,000 more people out there like John, it's all over.

[Nation]

But if I were going to proudly proclaim that I was going to retake the Senate, I'd want more than one possible pickup.

Exactly. And you have to remember, the Republican majority will probably increase this year. So let's say instead of 51 GOP seats, let's just say there are 54 GOP seats when 2006 roles around. You are going to need more than Virginia, Missouri and Tennessee (and you're lucky if you get them, especially MO and TN.)

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

The Democrats could very well pickup Colorado in addition to Illinois -- don't forget Alaska, where Knowles is doing just fine last time I checked. I still give the edge to Murkowski, but it's close.  The former Governor is popular there. I think we'll also hold onto Bob Graham's seat, and hold onto Edwards' seat.

[W in 2004]

And this is different from when Clinton was around.  This time, they hate us in every true sense of the word.  We are the enemy to them.  We are evil in their eyes.  Just look at what they have to say about us on Civil Rights, the War on Terror, Social Justice.  Al Gore says we "have betrayed America".  This is not 4 years ago.  This is life or death and right now it looks like someone should just hand each of us a pistol and then leave the room.

What would Abraham Lincoln say?  “The probability that we may fail in the struggle ought not to deter us from the support of a cause we believe to be just.”

“I wish none of this had ever happened.” “So do all who live to face such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.”  -- Frodo and Gandalf in the Lord of the Ring The Fellowship of the Ring by J.R.R. Tolkien.

"I do not know what strength is in my blood, but I swear to you I will not let the White City fall, nor our people fail."  -- Aragorn in the Lord of the Ring The Fellowship of the Ring by J.R.R. Tolkien.

Though here at journey’s end I lie
In darkness buried deep,
Beyond all towers strong and high,
Beyond all mountains steep,
Above all shadows rides the Sun
And Stars for ever dwell:
I will not say the Day is done
Nor bid the Stars farewell.
--Sam in the Lord of the Rings by J.R.R. Tolkien

A little encouragement from my favorite fictional book.

[12th Doctor]

And this is different from when Clinton was around.  This time, they hate us in every true sense of the word.  We are the enemy to them.  We are evil in their eyes.  Just look at what they have to say about us on Civil Rights, the War on Terror, Social Justice.  Al Gore says we "have betrayed America".  This is not 4 years ago.  This is life or death and right now it looks like someone should just hand each of us a pistol and then leave the room.

What would Abraham Lincoln say?  “The probability that we may fail in the struggle ought not to deter us from the support of a cause we believe to be just.”

“I wish none of this had ever happened.” “So do all who live to face such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.”  -- Frodo and Gandalf in the Lord of the Ring The Fellowship of the Ring by J.R.R. Tolkien.

"I do not know what strength is in my blood, but I swear to you I will not let the White City fall, nor our people fail."  -- Aragorn in the Lord of the Ring The Fellowship of the Ring by J.R.R. Tolkien.

Though here at journey’s end I lie
In darkness buried deep,
Beyond all towers strong and high,
Beyond all mountains steep,
Above all shadows rides the Sun
And Stars for ever dwell:
I will not say the Day is done
Nor bid the Stars farewell.
--Sam in the Lord of the Rings by J.R.R. Tolkien

A little encouragement from my favorite fictional book.

Thanks Free,

Funny thing is, I was thinking about all of this as I woke up this morning.

[dazzleman]

I never said I was jumping ship.  Last night I just got hit with a wave of dispare, I'm alright now, I guess.  Seeing someone like John jump-ship to "punish Bush" makes me realize though, that things are getting grim.  If there are ever 200,000 more people out there like John, it's all over.

I think you're allowing yourself to be too influenced by the news media.

They do this whenever a Republican is in office.  They paint a picture of gloom and doom to try to dishearten Republican voters and help the Democratic candidate.  During the Clinton years, they suspended talk of most social problems, but revived the talk as soon as Bush took office.  They would have us believe, for example, that the homeless problem, rampant in the 1980s and early 1990s, magically went away in 1993, only to reappear with a vengeance in 2001.

Many people are shallow enough to fall for this, but the good news is that many of them don't vote.  You can't allow yourself to be manipulated this way.  It will be a tough and closely fought election, but the president stands a good chance of winning, so we have to remain strong and optimistic.  Kerry did a couple more flip-flops today and we have to get the word out that this is not a man who can be trusted to keep us safe in these dangerous times.  I believe that with all my heart.  Whatever the president's imperfections, he is infinitely better than Kerry could ever be.

[freedomburns]

Soulty-

This is what I said to SR recently to buck him up a bit.  I love Republican bashing, but I never forget that we are all in it together and I would defend to the death your right to disagree with me.  This is what America is all about, and maybe the hawks help to keep peacenik hippies like me from getting rolled up into a little ball and smoked in a jihadist's hookah.  Those guys accessorize with dynamite!  Yikes!

Here it is:

We left-wingers have suffered through 16 years of Republican Presidents in the last 24.  We have lost control of all three branches of government, including the House of Representatives, something no one expected.  And it looks like it will stay that way for a while.  We have little hope of getting a majority in the Wahpreme Court (as you so artfully call it) possibly for decades to come.  Clarence Thomas is 56 years old, and will probably live to a ripe old age from staying active chasing skirts around the office and drinking lots of Pepsi seasoned with pubic hairs.

All of the branches of government will remain in Republican hands for the foreseeable future, almost certainly, except one.  There is maybe a 50-65% chance that we can take back the Executive Branch this year.  We may very well lose.  It might happen.  And we will be forced to whine (really loud) about it for the next four years.

If that is what you seem to be complaining about, then maybe you need to go outside and take a walk and breath the fresh air my friend.  In case you didn't notice, YOU ARE WINNING.

There is no culture war.  That's right-wing propaganda.  What the Republicans are doing is tremendously effective.  They play the political game masterfully.  They control all of the mainstream corporate media outlets and make them say what they want and avoid what is too damaging in the interests of "national security".  This is the most secretive government that we have ever had.

It is amazing how they have controlled public opinion for so long.  If you analyze their platform it holds very little populist draw for those who make less than $200,000.00 a year or are not born again Christians.  And yet somehow they play up the differences and podge together a coalition of people under the banner "Republican" that has substantially ruled our govenment for most of the last two decades and is undeniably in full control right now.

My suggestiion is to stop whining.  I feel like this forum has a majority of right-wingers and you feel like it has a majority of left-wngers, so it is probably pretty even.  Leave the whining to us, especially if we lose in November.  We are the ones who have a right to whine right now.  

freedomburns

[12th Doctor]

I never said I was jumping ship.  Last night I just got hit with a wave of dispare, I'm alright now, I guess.  Seeing someone like John jump-ship to "punish Bush" makes me realize though, that things are getting grim.  If there are ever 200,000 more people out there like John, it's all over.

If those 200,000 people all live in California it won't matter.

Sure it will.  Like I told Ford, those people know people and so on.  When people see these solid pillars of Republican virtue turn, they think, "Gee, thing really must be that bad" and so people who would otherwise have voted for Bush, don't.

[A18]

John Ford's recent posts and the failure of the Bush Administration to sink the Kerry Campaign in spite of innumerable oppertunity have brough me to a realization:

Bush will lose.

Let's face it:

Kerry will win.

Republicans will lose the Senate.

The House will fall in '06.

Kerry will pull out of Iraq in 1 year, leaving a mess there.

Kerry will "make amends" with the UN.

Bush, Cheney, Ashcroft, Rumsfeld, Rice, et all will be tried with war crimes and Bush will be executed as such.

The country will head down the toilet.

Conservatives will be basically outlaws and will be either totally shunned or "treated for there disease".

I am almost convinced that there is nothing we can do about it now.

No. It's all over now.

[Platypus]

Soulty-

This is what I said to SR recently to buck him up a bit. I love Republican bashing, but I never forget that we are all in it together and I would defend to the death your right to disagree with me. This is what America is all about, and maybe the hawks help to keep peacenik hippies like me from getting rolled up into a little ball and smoked in a jihadist's hookah. Those guys accessorize with dynamite! Yikes!

Here it is:

We left-wingers have suffered through 16 years of Republican Presidents in the last 24. We have lost control of all three branches of government, including the House of Representatives, something no one expected. And it looks like it will stay that way for a while. We have little hope of getting a majority in the Wahpreme Court (as you so artfully call it) possibly for decades to come. Clarence Thomas is 56 years old, and will probably live to a ripe old age from staying active chasing skirts around the office and drinking lots of Pepsi seasoned with pubic hairs.

All of the branches of government will remain in Republican hands for the foreseeable future, almost certainly, except one. There is maybe a 50-65% chance that we can take back the Executive Branch this year. We may very well lose. It might happen. And we will be forced to whine (really loud) about it for the next four years.

If that is what you seem to be complaining about, then maybe you need to go outside and take a walk and breath the fresh air my friend. In case you didn't notice, YOU ARE WINNING.

There is no culture war. That's right-wing propaganda. What the Republicans are doing is tremendously effective. They play the political game masterfully. They control all of the mainstream corporate media outlets and make them say what they want and avoid what is too damaging in the interests of "national security". This is the most secretive government that we have ever had.

It is amazing how they have controlled public opinion for so long. If you analyze their platform it holds very little populist draw for those who make less than $200,000.00 a year or are not born again Christians. And yet somehow they play up the differences and podge together a coalition of people under the banner "Republican" that has substantially ruled our govenment for most of the last two decades and is undeniably in full control right now.

My suggestiion is to stop whining. I feel like this forum has a majority of right-wingers and you feel like it has a majority of left-wngers, so it is probably pretty even. Leave the whining to us, especially if we lose in November. We are the ones who have a right to whine right now.

freedomburns

*Clears throat*

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA *breath*
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

[Gabu]

I liked it when it was all over the first time.