Infant Baptism

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Circumcision also was just symbolic of regeneration; and yet it was applied to infants.

there was regeneration in the old testament?  How so?

Well, unless no one was saved in the OT times, I don't know how there could not be...

who ever said that people in the OT had to be regenerated in order to be saved?

Where did they get their faith from? Or are you arguing that they were saved by works?

faith in itself doesn't regenerate, rather regeneration is the work of the Holy Spirit.  The Holy Spirit wasn't available to the masses in the OT.  Yes, they had faith and were saved by their faith, but no mechanism was available for regeneration.  Isn't that obviously what makes the NT different from the OT?

[Bono]

Not at all. I agree that Abraham's faith preceded his circumcision, however Isaac was still circumcized; just like when when parent's are given faith and are baptized, their children should be baptized with them. It's a perfectly analogous situation...

perfect analogy?  then what about Ishmael who was also circumcised, before Isaac was even born, yet wasn't a member of the OT church?  Are you going to argue that those outside of the church should also be baptized?

The NT uses OT circumcision as an analogy of the work the Holy Spirit does on the heart of a NT christian filled with the Holy Spirit.

Ishmael was a church member when he was circumcized, but eventually left the community. Even if you adhere to credo-baptism only, surely you can't deny that many unregenerate people are baptized and eventually leave?

[Bono]

Circumcision also was just symbolic of regeneration; and yet it was applied to infants.

there was regeneration in the old testament?  How so?

Well, unless no one was saved in the OT times, I don't know how there could not be...

who ever said that people in the OT had to be regenerated in order to be saved?

Where did they get their faith from? Or are you arguing that they were saved by works?

faith in itself doesn't regenerate, rather regeneration is the work of the Holy Spirit.  The Holy Spirit wasn't available to the masses in the OT.  Yes, they had faith and were saved by their faith, but no mechanism was available for regeneration.  Isn't that obviously what makes the NT different from the OT?

Of course faith doesn't regenerate. Regeneration produces faith.
If the Holy Spirit wasn't "available" to them, by which means did their corrupt nature produce faith?
Rom 3:10As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one;11there is none that understandeth; there is none that seeketh after God.12They have all gone from the way; they have together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one."

Of course the Spirit is present in the NT church in a different way than the OT church; but I don't see how you cana rgue that the faithful in OT times didn't have any presence of the SPirit unless you think unregenerate hearts can produce faith.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Ishmael was a church member when he was circumcized, but eventually left the community

huh?

18 And Abraham said to God, "If only Ishmael might live under your blessing!".  Then God said..."As for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation. 21 But my covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you by this time next year."

So, the spiritual blessing belonged to Isaac, not Ishmael.  God had made his choice prior to any disobedience by Ishmael.

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Since you teach Christians that baptism is required of their children, where is the NT command to do so?  Where is the NT example of infant baptism?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Of course faith doesn't regenerate. Regeneration produces faith.
If the Holy Spirit wasn't "available" to them, by which means did their corrupt nature produce faith?... I don't see how you cana rgue that the faithful in OT times didn't have any presence of the SPirit unless you think unregenerate hearts can produce faith.

Dude, even in the NT testament, regeneration does NOT precede faith.  Rather regenertion is the work of the Holy Spirit who is given to those who believe:

Gal 3:14 By faith we receive the promise of the Spirit.

Therefore, in the NT, faith precedes the receiving of the Holy Spirit which then brings regeneration.  So your whole line of questioning is based on the false assumption that faith is the product of a regenerated heart.

As for the OT, it never cleansed the conscience of the faithful; and though they were saved, they were never regenerated, that's why the old covenant had to be replaced.