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Question: Who had a Better night on Feb. 5th Obama or Clinton?
Obama   -61 (61%)
Clinton   -39 (39%)
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Total Voters: 98

Author Topic: Who had a Better night Obama or Clinton?  (Read 6822 times)
Gabu
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« Reply #150 on: February 07, 2008, 04:04:04 pm »
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The winner of the elected delegates will be the nominee. No matter who the Super Delegates are supporting in the present. If Obama is in the lead with elected delegates after March 4th then expect Dean starting to pull strings in order to get Obama a influx of supers. He wants this thing wrapped up soon.

No, that will split the party.

Having Hillary win based on unelected superdelegates won't?
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« Reply #151 on: February 07, 2008, 04:05:13 pm »
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The winner of the elected delegates will be the nominee. No matter who the Super Delegates are supporting in the present. If Obama is in the lead with elected delegates after March 4th then expect Dean starting to pull strings in order to get Obama a influx of supers. He wants this thing wrapped up soon.

No, that will split the party.

The person who loses the elected delegates and wins the nomination will split the party, if that happens.
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J. J.
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« Reply #152 on: February 07, 2008, 04:47:00 pm »
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The winner of the elected delegates will be the nominee. No matter who the Super Delegates are supporting in the present. If Obama is in the lead with elected delegates after March 4th then expect Dean starting to pull strings in order to get Obama a influx of supers. He wants this thing wrapped up soon.

No, that will split the party.

The person who loses the elected delegates and wins the nomination will split the party, if that happens.

If Dean looks like he's "pulling strings," that will anger half the delegates, no matter what.  I actually think you will have either a divided the party, unless it's settled in the field.
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J. J.

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« Reply #153 on: February 07, 2008, 04:48:21 pm »
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Why do people on this site still have the ridiculous idea that Howard Dean is any more than a puppet head of the DNC?
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #154 on: February 07, 2008, 04:52:29 pm »
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Why do people on this site still have the ridiculous idea that Howard Dean is any more than a puppet head of the DNC?

Faith
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Wakie
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« Reply #155 on: February 07, 2008, 05:36:07 pm »
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Again,

"NBC News, which is projecting delegates based on the Democratic Party’s complex formula, figures Obama will wind up with 840 to 849 delegates, versus 829 to 838 for Clinton."

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8358.html

You can't post numbers that have 120 Delegates unaccounted for, and declare those the end result. NBC NEWS AGREES WITH THE OBAMA NUMBERS.

Ghostmonkey, your politico.com article is now 30 hours old.  The numbers on MSNBC's website remain consistent.  We can quibble back and forth over the +/- 10 delegates, but it is still basically a numerical tie.

BTW, you may want to work on reading and comprehension.  I did not call my total "the end result".  In fact, read my post .... I say that is what we have thus far.  You're relying on 1 article with a projection.  Projections change.  Clearly MSNBC hasn't managed to finalize things yet and the 120 delegates in question are still "in question".

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Here is just one, I could give you a hundred. (Have you been on DU lately?)

"This snub goes to show that Obama is a misogynist and probably a racist. The campaign he waged in SC pitted blacks against whites and just disgusted me as an American." http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0108/Image_of_the_day.html (Scroll down near the bottom of the comments section.)

One comment by a random poster on a random blog?  That's your evidence?  I thought you said that Senior members of her campaign were doing this?  Why you backed off of that one quick.  BTW, did you notice the attacks on Hillary by other random posters?

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So now you've changed from "Garnishing Wages was an Edwards Idea" to admitting Hillary! said it. Thank you.

Nope, that isn't what I said but way to spin.  The garnishing wages idea was introduced by John Edwards.  This led reporters to ask Mrs Clinton whether she would be in favor of garnishing wages.  She said she wouldn't take anything off the table.  You, and other Obamites, have spun this to claiming that her position is garnishing wages.  A total misrepresentation.

It is a shame your tactic isn't to present a plan of your own and talk about its virtues.  It is much easier to just attack someone else's plan that to present one of your own.

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Do you honestly believe that serving in the Senate does not require management and leadership?  You're forgetting about Senate committees, the management of their staff, the coalition building which is required to be a Senator, and the general familiarity with the issues.

To a high degree, NO. Which is one of the reasons that Senator's have not traditionally done well when facing former Governors.

That and Senators have a voting record they have to defend and frequently issues in Congress are not as black and white as the pundits make them out to be.

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Bill is trying to get Hillary! elected. He wants back in the WH as much as she does. Bill also said "I did not have sexual relations with that woman." LOL!

I'd be happy to have Bill back in the White House.  I think it is funny that you think you know more about the goings on of said administration than the man who ran it.

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What do you like about Obama's healthcare plan?  Go ahead and sing its praises.

The biggest point is that it doesn't use Mandates.

Actually it seems that the point is that you don't know much about it ... just that it "doesn't use mandates".  You know what else doesn't use mandates?  Doing nothing.  The problem is that doing nothing rarely solves problems.

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Sorry, that's not going to work. Especially when Hillary! herself has claimed that she did her own research into the intelligence and attended her own meetings. You ain't gettin away with that one.

I love how you continue to avoid the question about why Obama voted against the Kerry Bill to end the war.

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I have a Y chromosome.  But if I didn't my opinion would be equally valid.  [sarcasm]Are you a red-headed, blue-eyed Orthodox Jew who smokes?[/sarcasm]

Are you being anti-semitic now? I sure hope not. Sarcasm or not, that's not a very nice statement to make. Please retract it.

Yes, I'm clearly an anti-semite for pointing out how ridiculous your question about my gender was with a sarcastic retort.  Well, let's be fair, I'm only hateful towards red-headed, blue-eyed Orthodox Jews who smoke.

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And Obama is going to appoint "Super-Conservative Supreme Court Justices"Huh?? McCain won't either BTW.

You're not very good at remembering topics, are you?

The Supreme Court Justice issue debate went like this .... you said you would never vote for Hillary if she wins the nom.  I said that this election is too big to be selfish and that returning the GOP to the White House would mean 1-2 more conservative Justices.  You pulled the "you must be a woman" thing out of your pocket and accused me of only caring about abortion.  I pointed to many issues a Conservative Supreme Court would hurt America on.  You come back with "Obama won't appoint Conservatice Justices".  So somewhere in that you lost the fact that we were talking about McCain appointing them .... which he most assuredly would do if he wants a 2nd term (he won't win without the conservative base twice).
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Thomas Jackson
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« Reply #156 on: February 07, 2008, 06:04:02 pm »
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Ghostmonkey, your politico.com article is now 30 hours old.  The numbers on MSNBC's website remain consistent.  We can quibble back and forth over the +/- 10 delegates, but it is still basically a numerical tie.

BTW, you may want to work on reading and comprehension.  I did not call my total "the end result".  In fact, read my post .... I say that is what we have thus far.  You're relying on 1 article with a projection.  Projections change.  Clearly MSNBC hasn't managed to finalize things yet and the 120 delegates in question are still "in question".

My reading comprehension is just fine. You tried to claim over and over that Hillary! won more delegates. When I showed you sourced material that proves she didn't you try to deny it.

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One comment by a random poster on a random blog?  That's your evidence?

You asked for ONE. I gave you ONE. Now that's not enough?

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I thought you said that Senior members of her campaign were doing this?  Why you backed off of that one quick.

A bold faced lie. Please retract that statement now. I said that Hillary! Supporters are making such comments. The words "Senior Campaign Members" never left my mouth.

I see you've retreated to the tired Hillary! tactic of lying. I think it's time to use the ignore feature.

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BTW, did you notice the attacks on Hillary by other random posters?

That doesn't negate the attacks made by Hillary! supporters that you denied existed.

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Nope, that isn't what I said but way to spin.  The garnishing wages idea was introduced by John Edwards.  This led reporters to ask Mrs Clinton whether she would be in favor of garnishing wages.  She said she wouldn't take anything off the table.  You, and other Obamites, have spun this to claiming that her position is garnishing wages.  A total misrepresentation.

Her position is Garnishing wages. That was her own words. That's what the media is reporting. Or are you now going to claim that the Media is owned by Obama?

Do you see UFO's as well?

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It is a shame your tactic isn't to present a plan of your own and talk about its virtues.  It is much easier to just attack someone else's plan that to present one of your own.

Read the Obama Plan. http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/

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That and Senators have a voting record they have to defend and frequently issues in Congress are not as black and white as the pundits make them out to be.

Governor's don't make decisions and defend issues? What?

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I'd be happy to have Bill back in the White House.  I think it is funny that you think you know more about the goings on of said administration than the man who ran it.

Another non-response.

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Actually it seems that the point is that you don't know much about it ... just that it "doesn't use mandates".  You know what else doesn't use mandates?  Doing nothing.  The problem is that doing nothing rarely solves problems.

Again, read the plan. http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/

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I love how you continue to avoid the question about why Obama voted against the Kerry Bill to end the war.

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Yes, I'm clearly an anti-semite for pointing out how ridiculous your question about my gender was with a sarcastic retort.  Well, let's be fair, I'm only hateful towards red-headed, blue-eyed Orthodox Jews who smoke.

I asked a question. You the one who responded in an anti-semitic way. And you still won't retract.

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You're not very good at remembering topics, are you?

No, that distinction falls on you.

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The Supreme Court Justice issue debate went like this ....

Debate? That's laughable.

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you said you would never vote for Hillary if she wins the nom.  I said that this election is too big to be selfish and that returning the GOP to the White House would mean 1-2 more conservative Justices.  You pulled the "you must be a woman" thing out of your pocket and accused me of only caring about abortion.  I pointed to many issues a Conservative Supreme Court would hurt America on.  You come back with "Obama won't appoint Conservatice Justices".  So somewhere in that you lost the fact that we were talking about McCain appointing them .... which he most assuredly would do if he wants a 2nd term (he won't win without the conservative base twice).

You really like distortions don't you. You also apparently can't read. I pointed out that neither Obama nor McCain would appoint "Super Conservative Judges". You also apparently have a profound ignorance on what the Supreme Court can actually do. You were also the person who first brought up an "Abortion Litmus Test." When I responded, you now want to try to flip the script. Sorry, it ain't happening.

This "Conversation" is actually a very good representation of everything that is wrong with the current system, and by proxy, Hillary!. You've demonstrated quite well what depths Hillary! supporters stoop to when confronted with reality. It's time for me to rise above it.

You know my positions, I know yours. We are finished.

I am saddened that you retreated to twisting the truth and resorting to some rather bold faced lies. Since you have decided to do so We are done here. Welcome to my ignore switch. Buh-Bye. Smiley
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« Reply #157 on: February 07, 2008, 06:18:41 pm »
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Obama had two chances to win this outright, NH and Super Tuesday.  Both times he failed.  It now becomes a long drawn out process that might last until August.  I wonder if Bill will be unleashed again.
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J. J.

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Wakie
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« Reply #158 on: February 07, 2008, 06:20:49 pm »
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I agree that this is a totally pointless discussion.  You have drank so much of the Kool-Aid it is beyond comprehension.


To summarize your perception of the world:

*1 aging article is enough even if contradicted by a more recent item from the same source.
*All candidates should be held accountable for all statements made by random internet bloggers that appear to support said candidate.
*Saying you won't rule out any options means you will support ALL options
*It is ok for you to say "Are you a woman?" But if someone asks "Are you a <insert random characteristic>?"  They are clearly biased against the random characteristic group.
*The Supreme Court is a powerless entity.

Additionally it is fascinating that:
*You cannot debate the virtues of your candidate's proposals
*When confronted with a tough question you decline to answer it.


Welcome aboard troll.
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Angel of Death
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« Reply #159 on: February 07, 2008, 07:59:26 pm »
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Now that a few days have passed I think we can now come to a more levelheaded conclusion.
Normally speaking, the fact that Obama kept it so close, should be considered a huge accomplishment for him.
Unfortunately for him, at the same time, he was also, again, significantly damaged by overhyped expectations, this time with regards to California and, to a lesser extent, Massachusetts. In a race where momentum plays a very important role, this should not be underestimated.
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« Reply #160 on: February 07, 2008, 08:09:55 pm »
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In the end that's all that matters.

Non. In the end nothing matters less.

How do you figure? Perception is reality in American politics.
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« Reply #161 on: February 07, 2008, 08:11:18 pm »
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In the end that's all that matters.

Non. In the end nothing matters less.

How do you figure?
Its Al. He doesnt figure, he just slams Obama for no reason. When Al steps into this forum section, he gets delusional.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #162 on: February 07, 2008, 08:17:28 pm »
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How do you figure?

What sort of people care about who's winning or losing the spin war? Think.

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Perception is reality in American politics.

If that were true Obama would have won a landslide in New Hampshire.
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« Reply #163 on: February 07, 2008, 08:26:27 pm »
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So the spin war has no impact? I disagree. It impacts fundraising, superdelegates, etc. I'm not saying there isn't anything Hillary can do to turn it around but it doesn't feel like she in the driver's seat anymore. You don't ask for a debate a week if you are in good shape generally.
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