Cuba Bill

[Platypus]

This is a bill for:

1. Resuming diplomatic ties with Cuba

2. Looking at ways to deal with the refugee problem

3. Exploring the possibility of allowing minimal trade with Cuba

It is a very tentative start, but I think we need to have some basic relations with one of our closest naeighbours. i am not in favour of free and open trade, but I do think we should explore the pros and cons of the idea first. The only point I insist upon is 2), we need a proper bilateral agreement. To do this, we really need 1), unless it can be done through other means. That said, 1) would be very useful to both countries, and their people.

[12th Doctor]

Absolutly not.

Cuba is a dictatorship with a long record of human rights abuses.  We cannot stoop to the level of dealing with the Fidel Castro's of our world, especially not when there is no vital interest to this nation.

What's more, Cuba is a direct threat to our way of life that lies just off our own shores.  I say that we open up our doors to allow for farther immigration oppertunites for people who are trying to escape that oppresive land.

[The Duke]

Castro will die soon.  I do not see why trade with Cuba is so critical that it cannot wait until Castro dies.  Why do this now?

[Akno21]

Absolutly not.

Cuba is a dictatorship with a long record of human rights abuses.  We cannot stoop to the level of dealing with the Fidel Castro's of our world, especially not when there is no vital interest to this nation.

What's more, Cuba is a direct threat to our way of life that lies just off our own shores.  I say that we open up our doors to allow for farther immigration oppertunites for people who are trying to escape that oppresive land.

We do business in China, they have a huge record of gross human rights violations.

Having diplomatic ties with other countries is crucial when it comes to solving porblems and crisises. Look at Iran, we can't really talk with them about their nuclear program because we don't have any diplomatic ties to them, we have to go through European countries.

[12th Doctor]

Absolutly not.

Cuba is a dictatorship with a long record of human rights abuses.  We cannot stoop to the level of dealing with the Fidel Castro's of our world, especially not when there is no vital interest to this nation.

What's more, Cuba is a direct threat to our way of life that lies just off our own shores.  I say that we open up our doors to allow for farther immigration oppertunites for people who are trying to escape that oppresive land.

We do business in China, they have a huge record of gross human rights violations.

Having diplomatic ties with other countries is crucial when it comes to solving porblems and crisises. Look at Iran, we can't really talk with them about their nuclear program because we don't have any diplomatic ties to them, we have to go through European countries.

China is not 90 miles off our shores and I do not condone a loose business relationship with them either.

[StevenNick]

I agree with the Vice President on this issue.  The reasons for establishing the embargo on trade with Cuban are still present.  I see no reason to further strengthen Castro's regime by establishing trade with that country.

[Akno21]

Absolutly not.

Cuba is a dictatorship with a long record of human rights abuses.  We cannot stoop to the level of dealing with the Fidel Castro's of our world, especially not when there is no vital interest to this nation.

What's more, Cuba is a direct threat to our way of life that lies just off our own shores.  I say that we open up our doors to allow for farther immigration oppertunites for people who are trying to escape that oppresive land.

We do business in China, they have a huge record of gross human rights violations.

Having diplomatic ties with other countries is crucial when it comes to solving porblems and crisises. Look at Iran, we can't really talk with them about their nuclear program because we don't have any diplomatic ties to them, we have to go through European countries.

China is not 90 miles off our shores and I do not condone a loose business relationship with them either.

If it weren't for our businesses operating in China, you couldn't have typed and posted your message. (Well, my mouse and keyboard are made in China, I don't know about yours)
China or North Korea is a bigger threat to us than Cuba is, and we should deal with them first.

[The Duke]

We can make that electronics crap in Indonesia just as easily as China.

[Akno21]

We can make that electronics crap in Indonesia just as easily as China.

Well then why don't we? Why don't the wonderful big businesses do that?

[The Duke]

We can make that electronics crap in Indonesia just as easily as China.

Well then why don't we? Why don't the wonderful big businesses do that?

What are you talking about, wonderful big businesses?

All I'm saying is that we don't need trade with China to make computer equipment.  We can make in Indonesia, India, and a ton of other places.  I don't think your comment addresses that point.

You said we need trade with China, and your evidence was that that's where a lot of electronics gear is made.  If we can make that stuff in any of 20 other countries, your point isn't so convincing, is it?

[Akno21]

We can make that electronics crap in Indonesia just as easily as China.

Well then why don't we? Why don't the wonderful big businesses do that?

What are you talking about, wonderful big businesses?

All I'm saying is that we don't need trade with China to make computer equipment.  We can make in Indonesia, India, and a ton of other places.  I don't think your comment addresses that point.

You said we need trade with China, and your evidence was that that's where a lot of electronics gear is made.  If we can make that stuff in any of 20 other countries, your point isn't so convincing, is it?

I was being sarcastic, about the wonderful business.

If you are pro-business, as most Republicans/Conservatives are, you most realize that businesses have a great opportunity to succeed in the Chinese market, both as retailers and as employers, so if you wanted to help business, you would let them operate in China. Supersoutly had said he does not condone us having a loose business relationship with China, so i was responding to that.

[Nation]

How can we be sure that after Castro dies, another won't just pop up and take his place, continuing where he left off?

If we ever want to succeed with trade in Cuba, we have to start sometime. I don't know how I'm going to vote on this act yet -- as I AM wary about trade with this country, but I do wonder when we expect to resume trade with them.

[The Duke]

Even if another Castro takes over, it won't matter that much.  Castro is of symolic value, another dictator wouldn't necessarily be.

[Akno21]

I will likely vote yea. I don't belive shunning countries helps either country.

[Platypus]

I will likely vote yea. I don't belive shunning countries helps either country.

Exactly, *If* only for this reason, this bill is important.

[12th Doctor]

Absolutly not.

Cuba is a dictatorship with a long record of human rights abuses.  We cannot stoop to the level of dealing with the Fidel Castro's of our world, especially not when there is no vital interest to this nation.

What's more, Cuba is a direct threat to our way of life that lies just off our own shores.  I say that we open up our doors to allow for farther immigration oppertunites for people who are trying to escape that oppresive land.

We do business in China, they have a huge record of gross human rights violations.

Having diplomatic ties with other countries is crucial when it comes to solving porblems and crisises. Look at Iran, we can't really talk with them about their nuclear program because we don't have any diplomatic ties to them, we have to go through European countries.

China is not 90 miles off our shores and I do not condone a loose business relationship with them either.

If it weren't for our businesses operating in China, you couldn't have typed and posted your message. (Well, my mouse and keyboard are made in China, I don't know about yours)
China or North Korea is a bigger threat to us than Cuba is, and we should deal with them first.

Last I checked, though, I own nothing manufactured in Cuba, so I fail to see your point.

[12th Doctor]

We can make that electronics crap in Indonesia just as easily as China.

Well then why don't we? Why don't the wonderful big businesses do that?

What are you talking about, wonderful big businesses?

All I'm saying is that we don't need trade with China to make computer equipment.  We can make in Indonesia, India, and a ton of other places.  I don't think your comment addresses that point.

You said we need trade with China, and your evidence was that that's where a lot of electronics gear is made.  If we can make that stuff in any of 20 other countries, your point isn't so convincing, is it?

I was being sarcastic, about the wonderful business.

If you are pro-business, as most Republicans/Conservatives are, you most realize that businesses have a great opportunity to succeed in the Chinese market, both as retailers and as employers, so if you wanted to help business, you would let them operate in China. Supersoutly had said he does not condone us having a loose business relationship with China, so i was responding to that.

The key word is loose that doesn't mean that I don't favor not having any trade, just more restrictions and keeping a watchful eye on the actions of the Chinese government.  Personally, I think trade with China is benefiting human rights there, because the special situation with Hong Kong is cause innumerable problems for the ChiCom government.

[Akno21]

Absolutly not.

Cuba is a dictatorship with a long record of human rights abuses.  We cannot stoop to the level of dealing with the Fidel Castro's of our world, especially not when there is no vital interest to this nation.

What's more, Cuba is a direct threat to our way of life that lies just off our own shores.  I say that we open up our doors to allow for farther immigration oppertunites for people who are trying to escape that oppresive land.

We do business in China, they have a huge record of gross human rights violations.

Having diplomatic ties with other countries is crucial when it comes to solving porblems and crisises. Look at Iran, we can't really talk with them about their nuclear program because we don't have any diplomatic ties to them, we have to go through European countries.

China is not 90 miles off our shores and I do not condone a loose business relationship with them either.

If it weren't for our businesses operating in China, you couldn't have typed and posted your message. (Well, my mouse and keyboard are made in China, I don't know about yours)
China or North Korea is a bigger threat to us than Cuba is, and we should deal with them first.

Last I checked, though, I own nothing manufactured in Cuba, so I fail to see your point.

I had gathered the implication that you wish to "shun" nations that are communist or or in any other way, evil, and since Cuba and China both fall into that discription, and you said you were against relations with Cuba and against loose business with China, I gathered that you wished to shut them out.

Let's get back to discussing the Cuba bill, which I am most likely for.

[M]

As the forum Secretary of State, I must strongly advise against the passage of this bill. Restoring ties with Cuba will set a dangerous precedent and decrease our negotiating capital with other forreign enemies. Also, Cuba, the only true dictatorship left in the Hemisphere, would use its new integration into the international community to support dangerous elements in Colombia, Venezuela, Bolivia, Haiti, and elsewhere, through its infamous clandestine opertation group the DGI. Evidence also suggests DGI support may be aiding the notorious Basque terror group ETA. Finally, Cuba will take this as a green light to continue its repression of human rights at home.

[© tweed]

Can we get a vote on this?

[JohnFKennedy]

Can we get a vote on this?

On the 21st.

[© tweed]

Another UAC ploy.

Oh never mind, I won't be away until the 23rd.

[JohnFKennedy]

Another UAC ploy.

Oh never mind, I won't be away until the 23rd.

How is it another UAC ploy? It is in accordance with Senatorial Procedure which was passed in a resolution that gained the support of a majority of Senators.

[JohnFKennedy]

Sorry I am a day late on this, was out all day yesterday.

Would all current Senators please vote on the Cuba Bill proposed by Sen. Hughento.

Please vote Yea or Nay.

[Akno21]

Yea.