Leftists in mourning? Chavez set to lose...

[AuH2O]

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=551867

We'll see how this turns out. Would be a big win for Bush, and a big loss for Chavez' commie sympathizers in the US.. aka Democrats.

[M]

I'm not letting my breath out yet. These things have to happen first:

1.) Chavez must indeed lose the recall.

Does seem likely after reading that article, but you know what they say about unhatched chickens.

2.) The opposition must unite behind a believable candidate.

They did it in Chile with a broader opposition. Part of that had to do with the personal courage of Ricardo Lagos in backing moderate conservatves against Pinochet. I assume that this also is likely, because they all hate Chavez so much (rightly so).

3.) Chavez (or Rangel, but probably Chavez) must lose the ensuing general election.

This is the biggest unkown. Sure, I hope so, but elections are funny things.

4.) Chavez (or Rangel) must not use violence to stay in power.

I actually don't think he would, but I am not positive. If he did, it would probably not succeed in forming a military-backed regime, but instead set off a Colombia style conflict. That could be bad. I hope this does not happen.

[The Duke]

! !

[raggage]

Good, kick the guy out. His country can to better.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

It can do better yes, but it can also do much worse, such as installing any of the right wing pieces of crap trying to throw him out. Luckily Chavez has said he will not step down to those right wing scumbags.

I find it funny how the "tyrant" Chavez allows right wing Venezuelan media giants to broadcast propaganda about him 24/7, or how he's even allowing this election!

[JohnFKennedy]

I believe he won did he not?

[KEmperor]

I believe he won did he not?

Foxnews says that Chavez won....

[minionofmidas]

58,25%.
I don't know where that article came from...this wasn't ever really in doubt.

[ThePrezMex]

Unfortunately it seems that Chavez won thanks to a huge electoral fraud.
I wonder if that guy, Carter, defender of dictators, will say anything at all.
A sincere request to the United States: Please, please, please get rid of Hugo Chavez before he causes more damage!

[ilikeverin]

From what I've heard he's a bum.

So kick him out

(but don't replace him with a right-winger, please )

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

yes! he pulled through!

Viva Chavez!

[YoMartin]

I don´t think he´s a good president, quite the contrary. But he´s not a dictator (how can you compare him with Pinochet, who tortured and murdered 3000 people???). And OAS, Carter Centre and the US State Department say there wasn´t fraud in the referendum.

The entire opposition, from left to right, with full support from the media, got only 42%. He just have to accept it...

[Beet]

Chavez is the worst president since herbert hoover. He completely destroyed Venezuela. The country is kaput. Finished over. Nada. In another 4 years they will have to start rebuilding from the stone age. The only thing keeping them afloat is oil reserves.

[AuH2O]

Herbert Hoover wasn't nearly as bad as people say.

Chavez obviously rigged it, otherwise the exit polls would have at least been closer (in those he got killed).

I love how people like BRTD whine about GOP "extremists" and then come out in support of communism. Too bad they got to McCarthy before he could fix things up.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Chavez obviously rigged it, otherwise the exit polls would have at least been closer (in those he got killed).

Actually, the independent exit polls didn't show too much deviation from the actual results, but all that proves is that precinyts that got independent exit polling weren't rigged.  I would say that the cloest thing to Chavez in American political history was Huey Long.  Chavez has clearly gained the votes of the poor by spending government money on programs that benefit them, but he has been able to afford doing so thanks to current high oil prices and the programs themselves are reasonable ones, if you believe that a purpose of government should be to better the general welfare of the citizenry and not just the elites.  Better that the oil money be wasted the way that Chavez is doing it than simply allowing the profits to fill the pockets a few wealthy elites to squirrel away elsewhere.

[ThePrezMex]

Chavez obviously rigged it, otherwise the exit polls would have at least been closer (in those he got killed).

Actually, the independent exit polls didn't show too much deviation from the actual results, but all that proves is that precinyts that got independent exit polling weren't rigged.  I would say that the cloest thing to Chavez in American political history was Huey Long.  Chavez has clearly gained the votes of the poor by spending government money on programs that benefit them, but he has been able to afford doing so thanks to current high oil prices and the programs themselves are reasonable ones, if you believe that a purpose of government should be to better the general welfare of the citizenry and not just the elites.  Better that the oil money be wasted the way that Chavez is doing it than simply allowing the profits to fill the pockets a few wealthy elites to squirrel away elsewhere.

Chavez doesn't have any equivalence to other american politician. Chavez = Castro - 40 years.
Chavez has trained and harbored the bloody and very dangerous FARC guerrillas of Colombia. Chavez helped organized the uprising in Bolivia that toppled President Sanchez de Losada. Chavez met with Saddam Hussein and NixonNow from Syria before the war as a way to show his support to them. Chavez has undermined any basic civil liberty in Venezuela. He has destroyed the economy. He plays class warfare and has created a deeply divided and resentful society. He basically controls the three branches of government. He meets with Fidel Castro at least once every month. He undertook one of the most giant electoral frauds - He has killed people! yesterday there were at least 3 killed and ask about those who he ordered killed in a demonstration about two years ago.

And Carter, IMHO the worst american president ever, has just endorsed the results. Carter went to meet Castro some months ago and Castro basically made fun of him and exposed him on national TV while Carter was still so naive as to say that Castro intended good. Carter is so naive that you can just wonder.
Carter has undermined efforts of successive American administrations in different conflicts around the world. Or why do you think that even Clinton has never really liked him?

Chavez is going to be President of Venezuela until he dies. I can bet on that.

[opebo]

What good is the CIA if it can't assassinate people like Chavez?

[YoMartin]

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Chavez doesn't have any equivalence to other american politician. Chavez = Castro - 40 years.
Chavez has trained and harbored the bloody and very dangerous FARC guerrillas of Colombia. Chavez helped organized the uprising in Bolivia that toppled President Sanchez de Losada. Chavez met with Saddam Hussein and NixonNow from Syria before the war as a way to show his support to them. Chavez has undermined any basic civil liberty in Venezuela. He has destroyed the economy. He plays class warfare and has created a deeply divided and resentful society. He basically controls the three branches of government. He meets with Fidel Castro at least once every month. He undertook one of the most giant electoral frauds - He has killed people! yesterday there were at least 3 killed and ask about those who he ordered killed in a demonstration about two years ago.

And Carter, IMHO the worst american president ever, has just endorsed the results. Carter went to meet Castro some months ago and Castro basically made fun of him and exposed him on national TV while Carter was still so naive as to say that Castro intended good. Carter is so naive that you can just wonder.
Carter has undermined efforts of successive American administrations in different conflicts around the world. Or why do you think that even Clinton has never really liked him?

Chavez is going to be President of Venezuela until he dies. I can bet on that.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I think Chavez would like to be as powerful as you describe him, but... it´s just absurd to think that a guy who can´t even control the media in his own country, or a lockout in vital PDVSA that lasted for several months, could organize a coup miles away... Or to think that FARC need Chavez to train them! Those guys have better and more modern equipment than the Venezuelan army. It´s true that those rumors have spread a lot (internet appears to be quite useful for this), but they are just ridiculous. Basic liberties haven´t been undermined in Venezuela: he just hold a recall (how many presidents in the world would include that in the Constitution? and how many would win in one?) with all private media completely against him, with freedom of speech and of association for the opposition, and with international observers monitoring the process (maybe you don´t like Carter -and you´re a democrat? strange- but OAS secretary general Gaviria, who´s opposed Chavez several times, also said the elections were clean). The results confirm what all previous polls showed, a victory for Chavez. I don´t know if the desires to become a new Castro, but certainly there are no conditions for that. It´s interesting the use of the Castro card to discredit certain latinamerican politicians, but any basic analysis of the possibilities for the appearence of a new Castro would conclude that the threat is absurd. Not only the Venezuelan society and the Cuban are too different to allow a comparison, but if really Chavez wants to turn Venezuela into Cuba, he simply comes 40 years late... and with an economy desperately in need to export oil to the US, and without the USSR to send money.

Having said all this, I truly wanted him to lose. He´s an inefficient president, mishandling very favourable international conditions. But it´s not the same to be a bad president supported by the large majority of your country, than a tyrannt like Castro, Hussein or Pinochet...

[YoMartin]

What good is the CIA if it can't assassinate people like Chavez?

Mmm. Some republicans are quite terrifying. No wonder why the rest of the world (not only coward frenchies, poor and ignorant latinamericans, of arabs that chose the wrong religion; THE REST OF THE WORLD) cross fingers for a Kerry win in November...

[freedomburns]

Chavez won by 60%!  Take that you rightist goons.

Viva la revolucion!!

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I posted this to WalterMitty in another thread. I was quite pleased while reading today's Star Tribune on my work break:

http://www.startribune.com/stories/484/4929682.html

Buoyed by soaring oil prices, Chavez in the past year has invested millions in new social programs, opening clinics and schools and providing housing for thousands of poor families. His supporters are fiercely loyal, saying he is the first leader in Venezuela's history to pay attention to the nearly 50 percent of the population who live in poverty.

"I have no doubt he will win," said Otto Jose Lobo, 47, a merchant ."He is a man of the poor."

http://www.startribune.com/stories/709/4931641.html

Chavez is seen as a hero by Venezuela's majority poor, despite an economic recession and 15 percent unemployment in the oil-rich nation of 24 million.

[...]

Cuban President Fidel Castro, a close ally of Chavez, has sent thousands of doctors, dentists and nurses to work in Venezuela's marginalized neighborhoods - a move observers say helped increased Chavez's support among the country's majority poor.

"I think the presence of Cuban doctors certainly played a very important role," allowing some poor Venezuelans to receive medical attention for the first time in their lives, said Larry Birns, director of the Washington-based Council on Hemispheric Affairs.

Like I said in the other post, despite Castro's not so great records otherwise, that doesn't change the fact he's doing the right thing here, and thus Chavez's friendship with him is only helping Venezuela. I despise Jeb Bush, but when he saved Terri Shiavo, I admitted that he did the right thing.

[AuH2O]

BRTD must love the StarTrib. They're almost as Stalinist as him.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

I have to admit I don't know much about this situation.  

Why do people object to Chavez so much?   It is mainly his socialist-leaning economic policies?  Because on the face of it, it looks like he has done a lot of admirable things for the country.  It looks like there may be some corruption and strong-arming involved, but he actually seems better than average on these points compared to other South American leaders.  

He was democratically elected, and allowed the recall to go through, so I don't see why everyone thinks he has designs on an authoritarian government.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Yes, they demonize him for being a socialist just like they do to Da Silva in Brazil. And of course that he's chummy with Castro, although these people seem to have no problem with Reagan's support of the Contra thugs, Islamists in Afghanistan, Pinochet and even Saddam...

[AuH2O]

Chavez is going his best to kill Venezuela's economy. The oil is the only thing propping it up, and that might not last.