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| | |-+  Down with Chirac
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Author Topic: Down with Chirac  (Read 3336 times)
A18
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« on: August 16, 2004, 07:24:03 pm »

He keeps being an arrogant bastard who is so insensitive toward French allies, they all hate France now. Maybe if he wasn't constantly alienating the United States and Great Britain, they would come around to his point of view.

My conclusion? Chirac should have reached out to French allies, and only a new leader with credibility can begin a new era of proud French foreign policy.

Can't stand arrogant leaders and countries who think they're better than everyone else and should be allowed to police all others...wouldn't you agree?
« Last Edit: August 16, 2004, 07:26:37 pm by Philip »Logged
Jake
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« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2004, 07:25:39 pm »

Chirac is a b@stard. Worse a French b@stard.
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A18
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« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2004, 07:27:44 pm »

This is where a Democrat shows up to inform us that only the U.S. needs to care about what other countries think.
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Giant Saguaro
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« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2004, 07:56:27 pm »

Chirac for court jester.
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Julian Assange is a Snowflake
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« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2004, 09:41:52 pm »

Chirac is my favorite conservative.
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Gabu
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« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2004, 09:58:01 pm »

He keeps being an arrogant bastard who is so insensitive toward French allies, they all hate France now. Maybe if he wasn't constantly alienating the United States and Great Britain, they would come around to his point of view.

My conclusion? Chirac should have reached out to French allies, and only a new leader with credibility can begin a new era of proud French foreign policy.

Can't stand arrogant leaders and countries who think they're better than everyone else and should be allowed to police all others...wouldn't you agree?

He George Bush keeps being an arrogant bastard who is so insensitive toward French American allies, they all hate France America now. Maybe if he wasn't constantly alienating the United States and Great Britain the rest of the world, they would come around to his point of view.

My conclusion? Chirac Bush should have reached out to French American allies, and only a new leader with credibility can begin a new era of proud French American foreign policy.

Can't stand arrogant leaders and countries who think they're better than everyone else and should be allowed to police all others...wouldn't you agree?
« Last Edit: August 16, 2004, 09:58:42 pm by Gabu »Logged
lidaker
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« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2004, 02:58:19 am »

I don't share most atlasians' anti-French feelings, but Chirac is a corrupt, nationalistic, unmodern leader.
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A18
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« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2004, 05:14:09 am »

^^Uh...do you not realize this topic was meant to imitate that rhetoric in the first place?

Well, for the record, I predicted it.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2004, 09:15:31 am »

I don't share most atlasians' anti-French feelings, but Chirac is a corrupt, nationalistic, unmodern leader.

Agreed.
When he was Mayor of Paris, Chirac claimed an allowance of about 500 a day on "food"...
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The Vorlon
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« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2004, 11:01:59 am »

Chirac became president of France in an unusual set of political circumstances.

In France the election for President is similar to the "run off" used in many Louisiana races.

Everybody and his dog can run in the first round, and if no candidate gets 50%, they have a round two between the top two vote getters.

Last time in France in round one the political left ran a rather large number of candidates from the assorted factions (7 if I recall) - thus splitting the left wing vote.

On the right you had only two candidates - Chirac and the every colorful Jean-Marie La' Pen.

Mr. Le' Pen has views that are.... out of the mainstream....  to put it mildly...

Supporting Saddam (as in France should send troups to iraq to assist Saddam defend against the US) deporting all immigrants, and a few others are some of his less controversial views.

http://www.adl.org/international/LePen-1-introduction.asp

Because of the vote split on the left, #1 and #2 in round one was Chirac and Le Pen, thus leaving the left with no candidate and a rather unpleasent choice in round two.

Chirac, who were he not president would likely be in jail for assorted corruption and bribary charges, was "supported" by the French political left in round 2 with the slogan "Vote for the crook and not the fascist!"

« Last Edit: August 17, 2004, 11:03:15 am by The Vorlon »Logged
TeePee4Prez
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« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2004, 12:51:04 pm »

He keeps being an arrogant bastard who is so insensitive toward French allies, they all hate France now. Maybe if he wasn't constantly alienating the United States and Great Britain, they would come around to his point of view.

My conclusion? Chirac should have reached out to French allies, and only a new leader with credibility can begin a new era of proud French foreign policy.

Can't stand arrogant leaders and countries who think they're better than everyone else and should be allowed to police all others...wouldn't you agree?

He George Bush keeps being an arrogant bastard who is so insensitive toward French American allies, they all hate France America now. Maybe if he wasn't constantly alienating the United States and Great Britain the rest of the world, they would come around to his point of view.

My conclusion? Chirac Bush should have reached out to French American allies, and only a new leader with credibility can begin a new era of proud French American foreign policy.

Can't stand arrogant leaders and countries who think they're better than everyone else and should be allowed to police all others...wouldn't you agree?

I agree with that statement.  I must say though Chirac is arrogant though.  I hold nothing against the French as other people in here have.
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2004, 01:05:29 pm »

I don't have anti-French sentiments, but Chirac is arrogant. But, Bush is arrogant too, and I don't like either one.
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A18
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« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2004, 02:00:43 pm »

What arrogant thing has Bush done?
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M
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« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2004, 02:27:21 pm »

As near as I can understand it, Bush's main "arrogance" was to defend the United States without France's approval.
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lidaker
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« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2004, 02:37:56 pm »

As near as I can understand it, Bush's main "arrogance" was to defend the United States without France's approval.

Defend against whom? What was the threat?
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M
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« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2004, 02:52:14 pm »

Defend against terrorism by taking the battle proactively to the enemy, and by attempting to make the world safe for democracy through implanting democracy abroad in a region beset by terrorists and tyrants.
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lidaker
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« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2004, 03:08:43 pm »

Defend against terrorism by taking the battle proactively to the enemy, and by attempting to make the world safe for democracy through implanting democracy abroad in a region beset by terrorists and tyrants.

Then why didn't he concentrate on Al Qaeda, the terrorist network, instead of on a dictator who wasn't a threat to anyone except of his own population? Who's the "enemy"? The hole muslim region?

Quote
[...] and by attempting to make the world safe for democracy through implanting democracy abroad in a region beset by terrorists and tyrants.

Why would a democratization of Iraq make the world safer for democracy, when Iraq under Saddam wasn't a threat?
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M
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« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2004, 03:17:57 pm »

The enemy is a terror network involving dozens of clandestine organizations and several countries, most of them in the Middle East. Recently Iran seems to have increased from merely being the greatest of these threats to wholely dominating the network, and is now the obvious prime threat to world security.

By democratizing Iraq, we may inspire a domino effect throughout the region in the mid to long term. The "root causes" people are right. But they are wrong that the root cause is poverty or American and Israeli policies. The root causes of terrorism are indigenous governments and radical movements. Nothing less than instilling democracy throughout the region, by whatever means are appropriate, will suffice. After September 11th, this became quite clear. That is why anyone who disagrees with this is properly referred to as having a September 10th mentality.
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lidaker
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« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2004, 04:48:04 pm »

The enemy is a terror network involving dozens of clandestine organizations and several countries, most of them in the Middle East. Recently Iran seems to have increased from merely being the greatest of these threats to wholely dominating the network, and is now the obvious prime threat to world security.

By democratizing Iraq, we may inspire a domino effect throughout the region in the mid to long term. The "root causes" people are right. But they are wrong that the root cause is poverty or American and Israeli policies. The root causes of terrorism are indigenous governments and radical movements. Nothing less than instilling democracy throughout the region, by whatever means are appropriate, will suffice. After September 11th, this became quite clear. That is why anyone who disagrees with this is properly referred to as having a September 10th mentality.

Thank you for developing your thoughts.

I can have great respect for your position. The big question is, as I see it, if "instilling democracy throughout the region" really is possible or if it's more likely that it will make the enemy stronger. (In the short term, it has.) If that's the case, the best thing to do is to wait for reform. Sure, America democracized Germany and Japan, but neither of those countries had a long history of anti-Americanism. And the democratic world was behind America at that time. And they had competent leadership.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2004, 04:55:52 pm by lidaker »Logged
opebo
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« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2004, 11:37:35 pm »

I've got nothing against Chirac - he serves French interests, not American interests.  Nothing wrong with that.
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