MSNBC Debate - The Showdown

[Torie]

Hillary offered no compelling reason to vote for her over Obama, so style still rules, and she loses. She's done.

[Speed of Sound]

Discussion on the last two debates is 15 pages short of the facebook debate. I love the sense of irrelevance in the air.

[Keystone Phil]

Eh, nothing exciting. They had their heated moments but it wasn't what I expected. I didn't see a clear winner but the slight edge would go to Obama.

Yeah, I saw your post at the beginning, and given that you predicted the outcome of Superbowl 42, I figured you'd call this one right as well.  So I watched, expecting fireworks.  I only wish you had been as wrong about the Giants in the superbowl as you were about this debate.

[Torie]

Hey, both Dems in bashing NAFTA say that they want tougher environmental and labor standards, and then cite not only Mexico but Canada. So the question is, what labor and environmental standards is Canada violating, or is Canada just going down with the Mexican ship? How how many more illegals will pour in, after NAFTA is tanked from Mexico?  Just asking.

[Kalimantan]

You have more faith in the EU than I do. 

and most people here seem to seriously think Russia would even consider invading Europe. Now thats laughable

[Middle-aged Europe]

Weak on Kosovo Obama.  "Work with the international community" in the event of a Russian invasion.  I think troops would be in order.

WTF? They got asked what they'd do if Russia invades Kosovo? Alright, those were really hypothetical questions. Uh, well... so what's Hillary's position on Alien invasions (I'm not talking about illegal immigrants)?

[Gustaf]

The idea that the EU would take action on anything is just laughable. The EU can't even agree on criticizing Russia, how would they get to fight a war? But, no, Russia can't invade Kosovo. A serbian invasion would be more likely.

Didn't watch the debate but Clinton needed a win. And it seems like she didn't.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Did they waterboard David Schuster so that the HildaBeast would appear on MSNBC?

[Reaganfan]

Eh...I watched the first 10 minutes of it on YouTube and got bored. I honestly don't feel the "excitement" everyone felt for this debate. I think Hillary will win Ohio by a few points, Texas is too close to call, Rhode Island is hers while Vermont is his. I just don't think this is so exciting. I get tired of primaries. I'm looking forward to see John McCain elected President...but I wanna get to the fall campaign.

[Middle-aged Europe]

The idea that the EU would take action on anything is just laughable. The EU can't even agree on criticizing Russia, how would they get to fight a war? But, no, Russia can't invade Kosovo. A serbian invasion would be more likely.

A Russian invasion of Kosovo would mean that the NATO forces who are currently stationed there were under attack very soon. Such an attack automatically leads to an invocation of Article 5 of the NATO Treaty, and all NATO nations including the United States would be recquired to come to assistance to respective nations' forces. Taking a look at the current geographical distribution of KFOR, the first hostilities would probably occur between French and Russian or Czech and Russian forces.

But since this is such an unlikely scenario, it's a pretty stupid (and irrelevant) debate question.

[Kalimantan]

The idea that the EU would take action on anything is just laughable. The EU can't even agree on criticizing Russia, how would they get to fight a war? But, no, Russia can't invade Kosovo. A serbian invasion would be more likely.

A Russian invasion of Kosovo would mean that the NATO forces who are currently stationed there were under attack very soon. Such an attack automatically leads to an invocation of Article 5 of the NATO Treaty, and all NATO nations including the United States would be recquired to come to assistance to respective nations' forces. Taking a look at the current geographical distribution of KFOR, the first hostilities would probably occur between French and Russian or Czech and Russian forces.

But since this is such an unlikely scenario, it's a pretty stupid (and irrelevant) debate question.

Exactly. Russia invading Kosovo (pushing several countries out of the way first) is basically World War III

[Colin]

Of course Russia wont invade Kosovo I don't even know why this was brought up since it's about as likely to happen as me becoming dictator of Paraguay in the next week. Russia will play Kosovo two ways, one will be to defend Serbia and use Kosovo as a way to show that Russia is still the "protector of the Slavs", a role the Russians have always loved to see themselves in, against both Western Europe and the "barbarians" to the South. Kosovo also gives Russia a precedent to push for international recognition of many of its little sattelites and Russian backed breakaway Republics, Abkhazia, Transdniestria, South Ossetia, etc.

Why is it that we in the West always think Russia is so much more of a loose cannon than it actually is? It's the same sort of old Cold War mentality, "the Russians are insane and have absolutely no common sense. They'll attack anything any minute!". When the reality is, while the Russians love to bloviate and preen and disparage, they wont do anything meaninful at the end of the day. Full of sound and fury signifying, well not nothing but definitely not an attack on Kosovo.

[NHPolitico]

Of course Russia wont invade Kosovo I don't even know why this was brought up since it's about as likely to happen as me becoming dictator of Paraguay in the next week. Russia will play Kosovo two ways, one will be to defend Serbia and use Kosovo as a way to show that Russia is still the "protector of the Slavs", a role the Russians have always loved to see themselves in, against both Western Europe and the "barbarians" to the South. Kosovo also gives Russia a precedent to push for international recognition of many of its little sattelites and Russian backed breakaway Republics, Abkhazia, Transdniestria, South Ossetia, etc.

Why is it that we in the West always think Russia is so much more of a loose cannon than it actually is? It's the same sort of old Cold War mentality, "the Russians are insane and have absolutely no common sense. They'll attack anything any minute!". When the reality is, while the Russians love to bloviate and preen and disparage, they wont do anything meaninful at the end of the day. Full of sound and fury signifying, well not nothing but definitely not an attack on Kosovo.

It's too bad neither candidate called him on that. "Tim, why in the world do you think Russian would go help Serbia retake Kosovo? Are you smoking crack again?"