Is the USA the Greatest Nation

[angus]

Oh, but the Scots are okay.  And so is their booze.  

as you can tell probably, my eponym is a Scotsman.

[Bogart]

I'd have to agree, but then again I'm partisan. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.  Canada's not bad though.

[badnarikin04]

The USA is the greatest nation because we have so many different cities. There is a city for everyone here.

But the people who run it these days suck. Sometimes I get the feeling that the common people should be protecting our land from some politicians.

[cwelsch]

While Scotland and NI may have gained or not in economic terms of the last century or two, both suffered from English misrule, and the Irish have TONS of valid complaints against the English.

Yeah, thanks for introducing slavery into the colonies, England.  Let's check a list of English and british humanitarian successes.  Hey!  I happen to know of a handy one.


He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.


Yeah, nifty humanitarians.  Limey bastards.

[freedomburns]

While Scotland and NI may have gained or not in economic terms of the last century or two, both suffered from English misrule, and the Irish have TONS of valid complaints against the English.

Yeah, thanks for introducing slavery into the colonies, England.  Let's check a list of English and british humanitarian successes.  Hey!  I happen to know of a handy one.


He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.


Yeah, nifty humanitarians.  Limey bastards.

This stuff is ancient history dude.  You should judge them on recent events and attitudes.  The English had and probably still have some deep-seated racism in their society.  I have yet to encounter one that doesn't.  Tribalism runs strong.

But the Limeys seem to have grown a real conscience in the last fifty years or so.  They really do have a workable Social-Capitalist model going.  Their school system isn't pathetic like ours is.  They have real socialized medicine, not profit from suffering like we have.  And, the women know how to treat you right, if you know what I mean.  

American girls can be so prudish.  Some of them never loosen up.

UK has taken the lead on many humanitarian issues of late.  We seem to be dropping the ball on being compassionate.  One million Sudanese would starve if it were left to us (and still may).

freedomburns

[Gabu]

Being from Canada and liking it a whole lot, I'm slightly partial towards, well, Canada.

The USA is certainly a very good nation, though.

[A18]

I voted Yes. There are other great nations too, of course.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

While Scotland and NI may have gained or not in economic terms of the last century or two, both suffered from English misrule, and the Irish have TONS of valid complaints against the English.

Scotland certainly didn't suffer from "English Misrule" (and if you're reffering to the whole Highland Clearances thing, let me remind you that the people who "cleared" the Highlands were mostly Lowland Scots. Not English) and as I've said have done very well out of Union with England (and Scotland still has more political clout over the rest of us than it deserves).

The Irish have TONS of valid complaints again the Irish (Ian Paisley ain't English ya know)... the Anglo-Irish mainly live round Dublin... most of the abuses happend up North: By Irish on Irish.
Sure the Potato famine was pretty bleak, but it was more a Civil Service cock up and the result of a Libertarian attitude to economics than a big evil plot by the "English".

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Slavery was a result of C-A-P-I-T-A-L-I-S-M and wasn't a Government programme.
I'm suprised you hold the actions of C-A-P-I-T-A-L-I-S-T-S against 40 million people.
Surely Slavery was merely a natural result of the free market?
Anyhoo, we abolished it (Bad, bad, evil big interventionist Government...) way before the U.S did.

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You need to get out more.

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Racist

[Michael Z]

While Scotland and NI may have gained or not in economic terms of the last century or two, both suffered from English misrule, and the Irish have TONS of valid complaints against the English.

Yeah, thanks for introducing slavery into the colonies, England.  Let's check a list of English and british humanitarian successes.  Hey!  I happen to know of a handy one.


He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

I fail to see how any of this relates to Britain's current foreign policy. I understand that using a country's past crimes to justify your irrational hatred of its 60 million current inhabitants must give you some kind of strange ego boost, but unfortunately the current government of Britain (and its populace) is not directly responsible for these crimes, just as the majority of Germans aren't directly responsible for the Holocaust or, for that matter, present-day Americans aren't directly responsible for the slaughter of the natives.

No country has a perfect past. That is not to say it should not attempt to do good in the present.

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Perhaps if you could quote some examples from the present then people might be inclined to see that Britain has, throughout the latter half of the 20th century, undergone a foreign policy which has put more emphasis on humanitarianism.

Of course I would add some examples myself but there is the small trivial matter of me having a life (resulting in the lack of time to google out statistics and whatnot), something you appear to lack (judging by this bizarre rant above).

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Yep, racist.

[© tweed]

Well obviously I live here so I think we are the greatest

[Giant Saguaro]

Yes. For capitalist, geographic, and political reasons and also that we're the world's Super Power. You've got vast prairies, deserts, forests, cold, hot, dry, humid, coastal areas in warm and cold climates, etc. We also have the greatest sports in football and baseball. I think we're also the most well-defended nation and there are oceans between us the Americas/Canada and the rest of the world. What don't you have here? I'll take the US over any spot anywhere.

[Platypus]

Yes. For capitalist,

Our economy is doing better at the moment, and per capita we'd be as strong as the US, imho.

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that is very objective. i would say Australia has the best geographic position, Brits would say Britain, and Mongolians would say Mongolia.

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Is that a joke?!? The US political system is seriously in need of a workover. We aren't perfect, but we don't have gerrymandering, do have almost 100% turnouts, and have a more democratic voting system.

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Agreed. And that makes you the greatest country, but does nothing towards making you the best at all; if anything it hurts your case because it lowers the worlds view of you.

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so do we.

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so do we.

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so do we.

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so do we.

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so do we.

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so do we.

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so do we.

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so do we.

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so do we. Add the abundance of unique flora and fauna, and we beat you wil natural beauty hands down.

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Aussie rules football and cricket, you mean

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Looked at a map recently? We're girt by sea. That means; its *everywhere* around us.

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Modesty, The Aussie way of life, and a lack of religious, gun and war nuts.

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Your choice. the US is a good country, and it is a great country, but it is not as good as my country. And that's completely honest. No arrogance, no anti-americanism. My country *is* better.

Advance Australia Fair.

[Giant Saguaro]

Yes. For capitalist,

Our economy is doing better at the moment, and per capita we'd be as strong as the US, imho.

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that is very objective. i would say Australia has the best geographic position, Brits would say Britain, and Mongolians would say Mongolia.

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Is that a joke?!? The US political system is seriously in need of a workover. We aren't perfect, but we don't have gerrymandering, do have almost 100% turnouts, and have a more democratic voting system.

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Agreed. And that makes you the greatest country, but does nothing towards making you the best at all; if anything it hurts your case because it lowers the worlds view of you.

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so do we.

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so do we.

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so do we.

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so do we.

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so do we.

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so do we.

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so do we.

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so do we.

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so do we. Add the abundance of unique flora and fauna, and we beat you wil natural beauty hands down.

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Aussie rules football and cricket, you mean

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Looked at a map recently? We're girt by sea. That means; its *everywhere* around us.

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Modesty, The Aussie way of life, and a lack of religious, gun and war nuts.

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Your choice. the US is a good country, and it is a great country, but it is not as good as my country. And that's completely honest. No arrogance, no anti-americanism. My country *is* better.

Advance Australia Fair.

Haha, good reply. Like Dorothy said, "There's no place like home."

Exactly right. If I thought Australia were any better, that's probably where I'd be. And not to mention I wouldn't feel safe there...

One note: Our gun, war, and other nuts in general all give us our personality and swagger! We had 'em when we ran the British out in the 18th century, when we held the union together during the Civil War, when we lead the world to victory over the Nazis and Communism, and thank goodness we still got 'em today. And they'll lead us to victory over the terrorists. I like being a leader and living in a nation that carries that much weight and can impact events in that fashion. And we need them at that international table, which BTW, we own for the most part.

[Akno21]

The USA has about 10,000 gun murders per year. Other first world nations, (UK, France, Australia, etc.) have about 200, on average.