3 state elections in Germany in September

[Jens]

No, that´s not what I meant. You said that all but two European users (you and Bono) are left-leaning. And what I tried to say is, that they are some Scandinavian members, who, despite the fact they´re using Democratic avatars, are conservative.

I'm not a very regular user, but I see myself as conservative too, in a Dutch way. .

I think that for Americans, almost every European user on this forum is left-leaning, while in European eyes almost every American user is right-leaning.

Especially Migrendel and Better Red.

Yeah, good description, OldEurope.

There's one thing I'd like to add: When you see polls of how people feel about a certain issue, split up by East/West and political party, you will often - but not always - notice that it's actually centrists who vote PDS. I'll be buggered if I know why that is...

Another thing that I find strange is that Saxony has a CDU majority. In the good old days it was a KPD stronghold and at one point caused the fall of the government (Stresemann 1923).

One thing that I know about PDS is that the party to some extent resemplence the Nordic left parties Socialist People's Party (DK); Socialist Left Party (N) and Left Party(S). All parties used to be very classic socialist (workes rights, full employment ect) but managed to pick up the green movement in the eighties (except LP in Sweden) and via that a large group of well off and well educated young people.
It seems that PDS gets the vote from that group in ex-DDR and that is probably the reason why the Greens fare quite badly in East Germany. (It is a hunch. I lack scientific evidence )

[Jens]

Well, I wouldn´t say so. The PDS isn´t explicitly a environmentalist party (at least not more as the SPD is one), the green movement in East Germany was in opposition to the SED, and most people who vote for the PDS are not the well off, but the losers of the unification such as unemployed people. Like I said, one of the reason why the PDS is currently so strong are these government reforms, which included cutbacks in the welfare system.

In fact, the reason why the Greens AND the FDP are so weak in the east is that there are not enough voters who fit in the profile of their "usual" voters. The Greens and the FDP are parties who are both strong among the well off and the well educated. According to a recent study the Greens are even stronger among the well off than the FDP (traditionally considered to be the party of the well of).

East Germany has a lot of well educated (nothing wrong with the DDR educational system) people that are potentional Green or FDP voters, but the reunification has treated them sooooo badly that they have joined up with the PDS (plus they probably are rather pissed over the lack of respect they encounter in some parts of the West German society).

[Jens]

East Germany has a lot of well educated (nothing wrong with the DDR educational system) people that are potentional Green or FDP voters, but the reunification has treated them sooooo badly that they have joined up with the PDS (plus they probably are rather pissed over the lack of respect they encounter in some parts of the West German society).

I didn´t say that East Germany has no well educated people... hell, I´m one of them.

What I wanted to say is, that the "well off" usually vote for the FDP or the Greens in a rate above average, while the PDS is more the party of the unemployed and other "losers" of the unification process.

We agree

[Jens]

Saarbrücken is in!
Preliminary final result (not yet certified or anything)
Turnout 55,5
CDU 47.5
SPD 30.8
Greens 5.6
FDP 5.2
NPD 4.0
Familienpartei 3.0
PDS 2.3

The SPD has lost half its voters from 1999...Even the Green and FDP gains are small in terms of votes. Of course, the CDU ones again gets away with calling a loss a win.

That was a horrible turnout!! Wonder what happened? And  isn't is a alarmingly good NPD-election?

[Jens]

Does it makes you wonder, when my newspaper (Politiken) has more reports from states elections in South Germany than the national elections in Canada a while ago

Joke aside - Is CDU/CSU advocating another economic policy than SPD or are people just voting against SPD? I am just wondering how CDU is going to improve thing if or when they win the national election

[Jens]

Add to those NPD Saxony worries the fact that they got some very disreputable characters high up on the list...people with connections to the banned Neonazi organization Skinheads Sächsische Schweiz, or SSS for short.

Mad people. I think that some of those neonazies also has connections with Danish and Swedish neonazies and other nice fellars

[Jens]

Does it makes you wonder, when my newspaper (Politiken) has more reports from states elections in South Germany than the national elections in Canada a while ago

Joke aside - Is CDU/CSU advocating another economic policy than SPD or are people just voting against SPD? I am just wondering how CDU is going to improve thing if or when they win the national election

Basically not. On details, yes, but it's mostly more of the same medicine, not less.
Opinion polls show the people know that, too:
Pretty recent one...
Would CDU/CSU do a better job in government?
28% yes
52% no
the rest was split between a "same" option (which makes you wonder if "no" was supposed to mean "they'd do worse" - the wording is not really clear) and don't knows.

That pussles me even more. The Germans know that the ecenomic reforms are needed and both parties (SPD/CDU) are going to go through with them. Why do they then vote CDU over SPD?

[Jens]

Latest poll from Saxony:

CDU 44%
PDS 23%
SPD 12%
NPD 7%
Greens 6%
FDP 5%

This will become a weird election. According to this poll the CDU will be still the largest party by far, but they would would loose nearly 13% (1999: 56.9%) as well as their majority in the legislature.

The number of parties in the parliament would double, with the FDP and the Greens breaking the 5%-clause the first time in Saxony since the election of 1990 and the morons from the NPD breaking this threshold the first time in ANY state since the early 70ies.

Looks like the rightwing nationalist movements has arived in Germany too

[Jens]

Looks like the rightwing nationalist movements has arived in Germany too

Well, they were always here. Just remember the 12.9% success of the DVU in Saxony-Anhalt in the year 1998. Fortunately, they often survive only one term and get kicked out again with the following election.

True, I guess my point was that they are on a "positive" trend in Germany as well as many other countries like Netherlands and Denmark, where our government has its support in the Diet from a blatantly racist party Danish Peoples Party (We had the election i 1973 where DPP's predecessor  Progress Party became the second largest party in the Diet )

[Jens]

I believe Jens was talking of LPF.
Although, to be fair, they weren't really on an upward swing at the last election.

True, I was talking about LPF. He might had some opinions that wasn't typical rightwing, but many of his followers voted for LPF because of the anti-emigration ideas and the "our culture is threated" retoric

[Jens]

It looks bad for the Greens, but perhaps Sachsen (5,0 at 21.06 (ARD.de))

[Jens]

NPD at 9%? ickky...
Headline on BBCNews Homepage: "German far right makes poll gains".
It's one of the top three stories...

Same thing here in Denmark. the 19 a'clock news at TV2 decribed it as: Nazies and Commies win the elections in East German States (not sure if you would call PDS communists! more left wing socialists)

Saxony at 22.53

CDU 41,1%
PDS 23,7%
SPD 9,8%
Grüne 5,0%
NPD 9,2% (Baaaaaaaaaaaaad)
FDP 5,8%

CDU and FDP at 63 of 126 seats!!! NPD 12 seats

[Jens]

NPD at 9%? ickky...
Headline on BBCNews Homepage: "German far right makes poll gains".
It's one of the top three stories...

NPD 9,2% (Baaaaaaaaaaaaad)

I prefer: Scary

I agree. Don't really like this trend - right wing nationalist parties getting around 10 % of the votes (like UKIP or Danish People's Party.) Creepy