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  What's with states like OK and LA?
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Author Topic: What's with states like OK and LA?  (Read 21333 times)
KenDB
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« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2004, 09:29:39 pm »

First of all, I am a senior at Northwestern Oklahoma State University, NAIA Div I in Alva, Oklahoma.

Secondly, I don't consider Oklahoma to be completely in the south.  Oklahoma is in the Southwest, Southcentral, Southeast, and Midwest.  Where I am at (Northwest Oklahoma) is in the High Plains of the Rocky Mountains.

It is true that Oklahoma is primarily Democratic in Nature.  We have had more Democratic Governor's than GOP Govenor's.  We recently elected a Democratic Governor in the 2002 Mid-Terms.

I grew up on the eastern side of Oklahoma City (the largest city in the USA) (Land-Area).  The Western 2/3 of the state are Republican and the eastern 1/3 are Democrat.

The Oklahoma Democrats seem to me to be a bit more liberal than the Southern Democrats, especially in the Northeastern Corner of the state.

A little bit of history, Oklahoma has only voted for 1 Democrat in the past 13 presidential elections, dating back to 1952.  That person was LBJ in 1964.

Oklahoma did not even vote for JFK, we voted for Richard Nixon.

Why that is, I am not quite sure, but several of the posts I have read I seem to agree with, that we vote GOP in Federal Offices (President, Senate, most House) and we vote Democrat at the lower levels (Governor, Lt. Governor, State Senate, State House, Sheriffs, etc.)

Currently, Oklahoma has
1 Democrat Governor,
1 Republican Lt. Governor,
2 Republican US Senators,
4 Republican US Representative,
1 Democrat US Representative.

Our lower level include Democrat Auditor/Inspector, Democrat Atty Gen, Democrat Treasurer, Democrat Sec of Education, Democrat Insurance Commissioner, Republican Labor Commish, 3 Republican GOP Corporation Commissioners

Welcome!  I'm most happy to see another OK Rep on the forum.  Or even another okie for that matter.

I might add that the Insurance Commissioner is a joke and for some odd reason thinks he can get elected to the Senate.  Must have been a drunken hallucination.

Ken
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jravnsbo
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« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2004, 02:12:20 pm »

registered democrats int eh south are in no way like national democrats.  Gov Blanco ran very much to the right of the national Dem party.

Sh eis pro life and against gun control.

Same with Sen LAndrieau she ran saying she voted with President Buish like 70+% of the time.


I heard on some news channels in both of those states 55% of the registered voters are Democrat.  How can a Dem possibly lose there?  Seems weird.  
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opebo
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« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2004, 02:14:18 pm »

registered democrats int eh south are in no way like national democrats.  Gov Blanco ran very much to the right of the national Dem party.

Sh eis pro life and against gun control.

Same with Sen LAndrieau she ran saying she voted with President Buish like 70+% of the time.


In that case I simply don't understand why they're Democrats.  

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Gustaf
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« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2004, 02:47:38 pm »

registered democrats int eh south are in no way like national democrats.  Gov Blanco ran very much to the right of the national Dem party.

Sh eis pro life and against gun control.

Same with Sen LAndrieau she ran saying she voted with President Buish like 70+% of the time.


In that case I simply don't understand why they're Democrats.  



Thank you! That's what I've been saying all along! Smiley

And on Oklahoma, I will agree with the local...it seems to me that OK follows the voting patterns of Western Farm States like Kansas and Nebraska rather than that of other Southern states.
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opebo
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« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2004, 02:50:32 pm »

registered democrats int eh south are in no way like national democrats.  Gov Blanco ran very much to the right of the national Dem party.

Sh eis pro life and against gun control.

Same with Sen LAndrieau she ran saying she voted with President Buish like 70+% of the time.


In that case I simply don't understand why they're Democrats.  



Thank you! That's what I've been saying all along! Smiley

And on Oklahoma, I will agree with the local...it seems to me that OK follows the voting patterns of Western Farm States like Kansas and Nebraska rather than that of other Southern states.

But the Western Farm states and the South vote exactly alike don't they?
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2004, 02:55:37 pm »

No they don't.
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opebo
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« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2004, 02:57:31 pm »

No they don't.

Well, they certainly are both very strongly Republican.  Are you saying they are different in the degree of the Republicanism?

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Gustaf
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« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2004, 02:58:26 pm »

registered democrats int eh south are in no way like national democrats.  Gov Blanco ran very much to the right of the national Dem party.

Sh eis pro life and against gun control.

Same with Sen LAndrieau she ran saying she voted with President Buish like 70+% of the time.


In that case I simply don't understand why they're Democrats.  



Thank you! That's what I've been saying all along! Smiley

And on Oklahoma, I will agree with the local...it seems to me that OK follows the voting patterns of Western Farm States like Kansas and Nebraska rather than that of other Southern states.

But the Western Farm states and the South vote exactly alike don't they?


No, not at all. The Western Farm states are much more Republican, for one thing. Bush got above 60% in NE, OK, ND and SD. As in WY, ID and UT. He didn't get above 60% in any Southern state.  
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2004, 03:02:09 pm »

Gusaf, the reason why most Southerners goes back to the Civil War.
Most Southern Democrats are socially conservative, but on economic issues are social democrats.

BTW neither Blanco or Jindal ran on "national" platforms.
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opebo
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« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2004, 03:07:24 pm »

registered democrats int eh south are in no way like national democrats.  Gov Blanco ran very much to the right of the national Dem party.

Sh eis pro life and against gun control.

Same with Sen LAndrieau she ran saying she voted with President Buish like 70+% of the time.


In that case I simply don't understand why they're Democrats.  



Thank you! That's what I've been saying all along! Smiley

And on Oklahoma, I will agree with the local...it seems to me that OK follows the voting patterns of Western Farm States like Kansas and Nebraska rather than that of other Southern states.

But the Western Farm states and the South vote exactly alike don't they?


No, not at all. The Western Farm states are much more Republican, for one thing. Bush got above 60% in NE, OK, ND and SD. As in WY, ID and UT. He didn't get above 60% in any Southern state.  

Oh right.  Well the farm states are almost exactly like the South except for the African-American population.  
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opebo
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« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2004, 03:09:27 pm »

Gusaf, the reason why most Southerners goes back to the Civil War.
Most Southern Democrats are socially conservative, but on economic issues are social democrats.

BTW neither Blanco or Jindal ran on "national" platforms.

Perhaps, but the majority of voters in the South are economic conservatives as well as social conservatives.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2004, 03:11:31 pm »

registered democrats int eh south are in no way like national democrats.  Gov Blanco ran very much to the right of the national Dem party.

Sh eis pro life and against gun control.

Same with Sen LAndrieau she ran saying she voted with President Buish like 70+% of the time.


In that case I simply don't understand why they're Democrats.  



Thank you! That's what I've been saying all along! Smiley

And on Oklahoma, I will agree with the local...it seems to me that OK follows the voting patterns of Western Farm States like Kansas and Nebraska rather than that of other Southern states.

But the Western Farm states and the South vote exactly alike don't they?


No, not at all. The Western Farm states are much more Republican, for one thing. Bush got above 60% in NE, OK, ND and SD. As in WY, ID and UT. He didn't get above 60% in any Southern state.  

Oh right.  Well the farm states are almost exactly like the South except for the African-American population.  


In 1976 Carter swept the South, but lost all the farm states. The farm states have not voted Democrat more than once since WWII, and that was in the LBJ landslide of 1964.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2004, 03:13:04 pm »

Gusaf, the reason why most Southerners goes back to the Civil War.
Most Southern Democrats are socially conservative, but on economic issues are social democrats.

BTW neither Blanco or Jindal ran on "national" platforms.

Yeah, I know, and I also thought that Southern Democrats were to the left on economy, but then I read that this guy Breaux appareantly supported Bush ecnomic policy, and then there seemed to be very little left...apart from nostalgia, I guess. Wink
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2004, 03:15:36 pm »

The Western farm states are nothing like the South.
Look at some of Dave's maps...

And besides without the South, the House Democrats would be screwed.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2004, 03:22:57 pm »

Opebo... most Southern voters are Democrats... especially in rural areas.
But a lot don't usually vote and a lot vote on social issues.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2004, 03:57:16 pm »

KS and NE were the only states to give Nixon above 60% in 1960.

KS was the only state to give Dewey more than 60% in 1944.

And so on. The farm states have been Republican since WWI, the South doesn't belong to any party, they vote after more regional patterns, against the Northeast, which makes them GOP right now. But not even MS or AL are as heavily Republican as NE and WY, for example.
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jravnsbo
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« Reply #41 on: February 16, 2004, 04:17:22 pm »

because that is what the dem party used to be, for tax cuts and strong nat'l defense ( ie John kennedy) but now they have shifted way left after the 60's.


registered democrats int eh south are in no way like national democrats.  Gov Blanco ran very much to the right of the national Dem party.

Sh eis pro life and against gun control.

Same with Sen LAndrieau she ran saying she voted with President Buish like 70+% of the time.


In that case I simply don't understand why they're Democrats.  


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Gustaf
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« Reply #42 on: February 16, 2004, 04:49:47 pm »

because that is what the dem party used to be, for tax cuts and strong nat'l defense ( ie John kennedy) but now they have shifted way left after the 60's.


registered democrats int eh south are in no way like national democrats.  Gov Blanco ran very much to the right of the national Dem party.

Sh eis pro life and against gun control.

Same with Sen LAndrieau she ran saying she voted with President Buish like 70+% of the time.


In that case I simply don't understand why they're Democrats.  



What's the difference between that Democratic party and the Republican party of today? Or the Republican party of back then, for that matter...
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #43 on: February 16, 2004, 05:07:06 pm »

Not a lot. A few more senior southerners in the Democratic party, a few more senior yankee's in the GOP.
Oh and Civil Rights of course...
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GOPman
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« Reply #44 on: February 19, 2004, 01:54:19 am »

NH and northern New England is politically opposite from the south. We are socially liberal, have a high rate of college educated voters, and are fiscal conservatives. Southern democrats are fiscal moderates, social conservatives, and less educated in general.

Yeah, I would believe what you just said, but with differing opinon as to why. You guys are politically opposite from southerners because of the diluted values that have taken place in your region over the years. Your region also used to have the same values system 200 years ago, but who changed? Not us...In regards to each of your points;

SOCIAL CONSERVATIVE: Religion and morals do not take much stock in your platform, even though most of the country considers itself "religious". The South has always had respect for the structure and guidance given by morals and values.

EDUCATION: The reason you are more educated goes directly to your comment about being politically opposite. The education system is run by Liberals that program their beliefs into your learning. It has been going on for so long you don't even feel the change. You may have more educated people in New England than us southern "folk", but we are more closely aligned to what the rest of the country believes.

FISCAL: We are just as, if not more fiscally conservative than northerners. The tax and spend types come from the DEM party and your region, REMEMBER?
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MarkDel
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« Reply #45 on: February 19, 2004, 02:06:28 am »

GOP MAN,

As a born and bred New Yorker who now chooses to live in the South, I totally agree with your last post. The Northeast Liberals feel they are "progressives" and people like you and I are living in the past. But the truth is that sometimes human beings can "progress" in the wrong direction and that's clearly what the Liberals have done since the 1960's. That's what the Reagan Revolution was all about, engaging in what I used to call "progressive regression." When my marxist professors used to rail against Reagan as trying to "go back in time" to an era best forgotten...I always responded by saying that Reagan wanted to keep the positive progress and engage in "progressive regression" and go back and fix the mistakes made in the 1960's and 1970's. It's like when you're in a maze and you hit a brick wall that prevents you from moving forward in a productive fashion...what do you do...you retrace your steps and take another path.
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GOPman
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« Reply #46 on: February 19, 2004, 02:27:01 am »

MARKDEL-

Sounds like we are not only of like "state", but like "mind". I have lived in several areas of the state, and the Jax area to me is great. How about you? Do you think Mel Martinez will be the guy to beat in the Senate?
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MarkDel
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« Reply #47 on: February 19, 2004, 03:39:29 am »

GOP Man,

I live in Tampa, but have also lived in Miami and Saint Petersburg, never in Jacksonville, but I do like the J-ville area a great deal.

I much prefer the Western and Northern parts of the state to the East Coast/South Florida area. Miami is NOT fun.

I strongly agree that Mel Martinez is the man to beat in the US Senate race. The problem he faces is a challenge from the right in the form of guys like McCollum and Byrd within his own party. If he gets the nomination, he'll win in the general election. He would win by a small margin of Castor, a decent margin over Penelas and a large margin over Deutsch.

One thing the Democrats FAIL to realize is that rank and file Floridians blame the DEMOCRATS for the 2000 Election fiasco, not the Republicans. You talk to people here and they never mention Katherine Harris or Jeb Bush, but they always talk about Democratic Party officials in Palm Beach and Broward holding up ballots high in the air to check for "dented chads" to throw more votes into the Gore camp. The other issue they talk about when it comes to the 2000 Election is the Democrats filing lawsuits to prevent absentee military ballots from being counted.

Yet the Democrats feel that Florida 2000 is rallying cry for THEM...and they paid the price in the 2002 Elections here.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #48 on: February 19, 2004, 06:57:04 am »

Suburbs in the South are very conservative, but they are a lost cause anyway.
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MarkDel
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« Reply #49 on: February 19, 2004, 09:48:42 am »

Realpolitik,

You're right, the Southern suburbs ARE a lost cause for the Democratic Party. The Southern suburbs are primarily made up of hard working, two parent homes with people who don't like high taxes and actually love their own country. Not a good fit with the modern Democratic Party.
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