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  Political Geography & Demographics (Moderator: muon2)
  What's with states like OK and LA?
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Author Topic: What's with states like OK and LA?  (Read 22508 times)
tweed
Miamiu1027
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« Reply #50 on: February 19, 2004, 10:00:36 am »

love their own country. Not a good fit with the modern Democratic Party.
I don't see how I can read this and not respond to it.  are you suggesting that today's Democratic party does not love their own country?  That's more absurd than some of the things I was saying yesterday.
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MarkDel
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« Reply #51 on: February 19, 2004, 10:24:36 am »

Miami,

I'll answer your question with a simple question...

Do you love your country? Even when George Bush is in the White House?

You and most Democrats will give me some bullsh*t qualified answer about how you love what our country "promises to be" or "can become" or some other similar statement.

I love my country. I love it now. I loved it when Ronald Reagan was in the White House. I loved it when Bill Clinton was in the White House. I even loved it when that fool Jimmy Carter was in the White House.

You guys may or may not love it, and if you do, it's a classic example of Republicans seeing the glass "half full" and you guys seeing the glass as "half empty"
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JohnFKennedy
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« Reply #52 on: February 19, 2004, 10:28:19 am »

I prefer the saying:

"A Democrat sees the glass of water as half full. A Republican looks at the same glass and wonders who the hell drank half his glass of water."

- Jeff Cesario
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MarkDel
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« Reply #53 on: February 19, 2004, 10:35:28 am »
« Edited: February 19, 2004, 10:35:57 am by MarkDel »

JFK,

LOL...how about this one:

The difference between the Democrats and Republicans is as follows: The Democrat comes across a starving man in front of a lake filled with fish. The Democrat takes a fishing pole, catches a fish and gives it to the man. He then tells him, "If you come back here every day at the same time, and vote for me in November, I'll give you a fish." The Democrat then tells the Republican fishermen that they must give 1 of every 2 fish they catch to the government. In the same scenario, the Republican comes across the starving man and says, "Hey, moron, come here and learn something." The Republican then teaches the man how to catch his OWN fish so the man can eat AND have his self-respect.
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JohnFKennedy
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« Reply #54 on: February 19, 2004, 10:37:22 am »

Smiley

If the guy is starving, how's he gonna manage to catch his own fish Tongue
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MarkDel
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« Reply #55 on: February 19, 2004, 10:38:45 am »

That's a good answer...LOL

Maybe the Republican gives him a very small amount of fish so he regains his strength first...
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JohnFKennedy
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« Reply #56 on: February 19, 2004, 10:43:29 am »

ah, ok, what would work best would be a combination, if the first time he gave him a fish and then came back and gave him a fish and gradually taught the man to fish so that the guy would get good at it gradually and then be able to make it on his own without support but the person looks after him until he is firmly established in his ways.

Really, a combination of both works best.
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MarkDel
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« Reply #57 on: February 19, 2004, 10:46:08 am »
« Edited: February 19, 2004, 10:47:55 am by MarkDel »

JFK,

Sounds sensible to me. Unfortunately, that is NOT what has happened in this country since we expanded the Welfare State in the 1960's...and it is NOT what has happened in European nations that have even broader Welfare States.
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JohnFKennedy
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« Reply #58 on: February 19, 2004, 10:47:41 am »

Well, it would be nice if it happened, the state supported the individual through the hard times bolstering their morale and giving them the abilities they needed to get back out to work.

Unfortunately lots of people on welfare here cheat the system by going out and doing cash-in-hand jobs so they get welfare but also money they make from those.
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MarkDel
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« Reply #59 on: February 19, 2004, 10:49:55 am »

JFK,

You know what? Our discussion at this point should evolve into an introspection on the nature of mankind...LOL

Personally, I'd argue that if you give people something for nothing, it destroys their dignity and they end up "resenting the hand that feeds them" over the long haul.
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MarkDel
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« Reply #60 on: February 19, 2004, 10:51:41 am »

JFK,

By the way, YOU may be an exception to my observations about Democrats seeing the glass as "half empty"

You sound more like what Democrats USED TO sound like in this country...positive...and not full of hate, anger and class/cultural resentment.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #61 on: February 19, 2004, 10:54:38 am »

The reason why the suburbs are a lost cause is because they are the only parts of the South where the GOP leads voter registration... in other words the problem in the suburbs is not that our voters are not voting (which is the problem in rural areas) or that they are ticket-splitters (which also happens a lot in rural areas) but that they are not our voters *at all*...
Which is why the redistricting in GA last time was so mindlessly stupid...
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JohnFKennedy
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« Reply #62 on: February 19, 2004, 10:55:51 am »

thank you MarkDel, I like to think I am positive, some Democrats seem positive still to me, I would argue that that is the type of campaign that John Edwards is running.

I see what you mean about dignity, but some people, to be brutally honest, don't mind sitting around doing nothing and getting a pay-off from the government, if I ran the country (God willing someday I will run britain Cheesy) I would implement a new welfare system, where people are given benefits, but are also given the opportunity to learn new skills at classes organised by the government to help them get back into society and become fully functioning members of it. It would be good for the economy, however, I would keep the benefits as many people on benefits are those who couldn't go out to work such as single parents who can't afford the costs of child care.
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MarkDel
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« Reply #63 on: February 19, 2004, 10:59:25 am »

JFK,

The system you describe is essentially what we DO have in the US since the Welfare Reform of the 1990's.

Now Realpolitik...he's definitely part of the "half empty" crowd....LOL
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JohnFKennedy
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« Reply #64 on: February 19, 2004, 11:01:50 am »

Are people who are unemployed, along with receiving benefits, encouraged to attend government funded classes to learn new skills to help them keep up with the world today?
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MarkDel
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« Reply #65 on: February 19, 2004, 11:04:03 am »

Not in every state, but in many states that is in fact a requirement called "workfare"

Personally I think it could use a lot of improvement. The way I see it, if we are going to spend the money, let's really teach welfare recipients useful skills. That's a sensible reinvestment in human capital.
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JohnFKennedy
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« Reply #66 on: February 19, 2004, 11:05:28 am »

By new skills I meant useful skills not things like teaching them to be a better checkers player Wink.
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MarkDel
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« Reply #67 on: February 19, 2004, 11:08:10 am »

JFK,

No...LOL...they do try to teach them useful skills, it's just that the world is changing so fast now that the government doesn't always reach the right conclusion as to what constitutes "useful" skills.
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JohnFKennedy
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« Reply #68 on: February 19, 2004, 11:10:48 am »

A large proportion of unemployed people are illiterate and innumerate I believe, yes?

teaching them to read and write and count would be the most useful thing.

Other useful skills would be computer skills and academic skills but also manual skills, such as mechanics and things like that.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #69 on: February 19, 2004, 11:14:55 am »

The unemployed should be helped by the Government (Federal, State and Local) to get back to work in Good Jobs. Dealing with longterm unemployment (which often blights entire regions) should be high on any governments list of priorities.
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JohnFKennedy
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« Reply #70 on: February 19, 2004, 11:17:34 am »

But how do we define good jobs?

I personally believe that there should be a wide range of skills, available for the unemployed to learn and that they should be given the choice of government course which they do to help them get back into work, some jobs just aren't suited to people and so they should have the right to choose the job that they try to get back into society doing.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #71 on: February 19, 2004, 11:43:53 am »

By a "good job" I mean something that pays the bills and isn't soul destroying.
And preferably not a menial job in the service sector...
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Gustaf
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« Reply #72 on: February 19, 2004, 12:40:57 pm »

NH and northern New England is politically opposite from the south. We are socially liberal, have a high rate of college educated voters, and are fiscal conservatives. Southern democrats are fiscal moderates, social conservatives, and less educated in general.

Yeah, I would believe what you just said, but with differing opinon as to why. You guys are politically opposite from southerners because of the diluted values that have taken place in your region over the years. Your region also used to have the same values system 200 years ago, but who changed? Not us...In regards to each of your points;

SOCIAL CONSERVATIVE: Religion and morals do not take much stock in your platform, even though most of the country considers itself "religious". The South has always had respect for the structure and guidance given by morals and values.

EDUCATION: The reason you are more educated goes directly to your comment about being politically opposite. The education system is run by Liberals that program their beliefs into your learning. It has been going on for so long you don't even feel the change. You may have more educated people in New England than us southern "folk", but we are more closely aligned to what the rest of the country believes.

FISCAL: We are just as, if not more fiscally conservative than northerners. The tax and spend types come from the DEM party and your region, REMEMBER?

Since Bush was born in the Northeast you mean? Wink
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tweed
Miamiu1027
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« Reply #73 on: February 19, 2004, 12:42:56 pm »

In North carolina, Democrats outnumber Republican 2,388,679 to 1,712,992 (48-24%)
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elcorazon
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« Reply #74 on: February 19, 2004, 01:38:34 pm »

In North carolina, Democrats outnumber Republican 2,388,679 to 1,712,992 (48-24%)
Your math's not so good, miami.  Those numbers/percentages don't make sense, maybe you meant 48%-34%?
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