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  What's with states like OK and LA? (search mode)
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Author Topic: What's with states like OK and LA?  (Read 21277 times)
MarkDel
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« on: February 13, 2004, 06:37:32 pm »
« edited: February 13, 2004, 06:39:43 pm by MarkDel »

Hockey Dude,

There's a HUGE difference between Southern Democrats and real Democrats. Southern Democrats are right wing on foreign policy issues, moderate on social issues and populists when it comes to economic issues...which is pretty much where the Democratic Party stood from 1932 to 1964 when they dominated American politics. But today's REAL Democrats are Internationalist appeasers on issues pertaining to foreign policy and far left on social issues, and neither of those positions will fly with Southern Democrats.
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MarkDel
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« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2004, 07:07:51 pm »

Gustaf,

The Southern Democrats are less conservative on social issues than rank and file Republicans, and they might be more suspectible to class envy populism...that's the biggest difference.

But when it comes to foreign policy...yes...they are pretty much Republicans.
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MarkDel
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« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2004, 07:20:46 pm »

Gustaf,

Breaux may have voted with the Republicans on some issues, but he's not nearly as conservative overall on economic and social issues, though I would call him closer to the Republican base than he is to the Democratic base nationally.
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MarkDel
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« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2004, 02:06:28 am »

GOP MAN,

As a born and bred New Yorker who now chooses to live in the South, I totally agree with your last post. The Northeast Liberals feel they are "progressives" and people like you and I are living in the past. But the truth is that sometimes human beings can "progress" in the wrong direction and that's clearly what the Liberals have done since the 1960's. That's what the Reagan Revolution was all about, engaging in what I used to call "progressive regression." When my marxist professors used to rail against Reagan as trying to "go back in time" to an era best forgotten...I always responded by saying that Reagan wanted to keep the positive progress and engage in "progressive regression" and go back and fix the mistakes made in the 1960's and 1970's. It's like when you're in a maze and you hit a brick wall that prevents you from moving forward in a productive fashion...what do you do...you retrace your steps and take another path.
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MarkDel
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« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2004, 03:39:29 am »

GOP Man,

I live in Tampa, but have also lived in Miami and Saint Petersburg, never in Jacksonville, but I do like the J-ville area a great deal.

I much prefer the Western and Northern parts of the state to the East Coast/South Florida area. Miami is NOT fun.

I strongly agree that Mel Martinez is the man to beat in the US Senate race. The problem he faces is a challenge from the right in the form of guys like McCollum and Byrd within his own party. If he gets the nomination, he'll win in the general election. He would win by a small margin of Castor, a decent margin over Penelas and a large margin over Deutsch.

One thing the Democrats FAIL to realize is that rank and file Floridians blame the DEMOCRATS for the 2000 Election fiasco, not the Republicans. You talk to people here and they never mention Katherine Harris or Jeb Bush, but they always talk about Democratic Party officials in Palm Beach and Broward holding up ballots high in the air to check for "dented chads" to throw more votes into the Gore camp. The other issue they talk about when it comes to the 2000 Election is the Democrats filing lawsuits to prevent absentee military ballots from being counted.

Yet the Democrats feel that Florida 2000 is rallying cry for THEM...and they paid the price in the 2002 Elections here.
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MarkDel
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« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2004, 09:48:42 am »

Realpolitik,

You're right, the Southern suburbs ARE a lost cause for the Democratic Party. The Southern suburbs are primarily made up of hard working, two parent homes with people who don't like high taxes and actually love their own country. Not a good fit with the modern Democratic Party.
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MarkDel
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« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2004, 10:24:36 am »

Miami,

I'll answer your question with a simple question...

Do you love your country? Even when George Bush is in the White House?

You and most Democrats will give me some bullsh*t qualified answer about how you love what our country "promises to be" or "can become" or some other similar statement.

I love my country. I love it now. I loved it when Ronald Reagan was in the White House. I loved it when Bill Clinton was in the White House. I even loved it when that fool Jimmy Carter was in the White House.

You guys may or may not love it, and if you do, it's a classic example of Republicans seeing the glass "half full" and you guys seeing the glass as "half empty"
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MarkDel
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« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2004, 10:35:28 am »
« Edited: February 19, 2004, 10:35:57 am by MarkDel »

JFK,

LOL...how about this one:

The difference between the Democrats and Republicans is as follows: The Democrat comes across a starving man in front of a lake filled with fish. The Democrat takes a fishing pole, catches a fish and gives it to the man. He then tells him, "If you come back here every day at the same time, and vote for me in November, I'll give you a fish." The Democrat then tells the Republican fishermen that they must give 1 of every 2 fish they catch to the government. In the same scenario, the Republican comes across the starving man and says, "Hey, moron, come here and learn something." The Republican then teaches the man how to catch his OWN fish so the man can eat AND have his self-respect.
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MarkDel
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« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2004, 10:38:45 am »

That's a good answer...LOL

Maybe the Republican gives him a very small amount of fish so he regains his strength first...
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MarkDel
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« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2004, 10:46:08 am »
« Edited: February 19, 2004, 10:47:55 am by MarkDel »

JFK,

Sounds sensible to me. Unfortunately, that is NOT what has happened in this country since we expanded the Welfare State in the 1960's...and it is NOT what has happened in European nations that have even broader Welfare States.
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MarkDel
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« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2004, 10:49:55 am »

JFK,

You know what? Our discussion at this point should evolve into an introspection on the nature of mankind...LOL

Personally, I'd argue that if you give people something for nothing, it destroys their dignity and they end up "resenting the hand that feeds them" over the long haul.
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MarkDel
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« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2004, 10:51:41 am »

JFK,

By the way, YOU may be an exception to my observations about Democrats seeing the glass as "half empty"

You sound more like what Democrats USED TO sound like in this country...positive...and not full of hate, anger and class/cultural resentment.
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MarkDel
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« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2004, 10:59:25 am »

JFK,

The system you describe is essentially what we DO have in the US since the Welfare Reform of the 1990's.

Now Realpolitik...he's definitely part of the "half empty" crowd....LOL
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MarkDel
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« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2004, 11:04:03 am »

Not in every state, but in many states that is in fact a requirement called "workfare"

Personally I think it could use a lot of improvement. The way I see it, if we are going to spend the money, let's really teach welfare recipients useful skills. That's a sensible reinvestment in human capital.
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MarkDel
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« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2004, 11:08:10 am »

JFK,

No...LOL...they do try to teach them useful skills, it's just that the world is changing so fast now that the government doesn't always reach the right conclusion as to what constitutes "useful" skills.
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